Warrior Phantom Dancer Passive

LaughingStapler·Mar 4, 2016·16 votes·1,034 views

Warrior isn't as distinguished as any of the other jungle items and also feels a little bit on the weak side. Since most Warrior junglers are melee and have trouble sticking onto targets, a passive like that of Phantom dancer seems suitable to their gank heavy styles. It can also bring their chase potential more in line with Runic Echoes junglers.

Here's the change I'd make:

"When within 500 units of an enemy champion, gain 6 MS."

I first wanted to make it 10 MS but I'm not sure if it wouldn't be too much without nerfing other parts of it. Anyway, the right numbers are for the balance team to decide but I think the idea makes sense and would be generally desirable on every Warrior jungler. Kindred may abuse it a little so I guess they could make it 3 MS for ranged.

17 Comments

ProfDrDeathMar 4, 20164 votes

6? Or 6%?

Interesting idea. I am not sure if there is not already too much MS in the game, though...

LaughingStaplerMar 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

6? Or 6%?

Interesting idea. I am not sure if there is not already too much MS in the game, though...

I'm referring to flat MS because otherwise some champions with fast base MS may benefit much more than others without even needing to use an ability.

AATTRROOXXMar 4, 201610 votes

6 MS is almost nothing. That means a champion can walk 1.06 teemos in the time it takes the same champion without the speed to walk 1 teemo. Or given the scenario a 325 ms champ w/ warrior chases a 325 ms champ w/out warrior starting from the 500 units where the passive kicks in, they will reach them after...

83.3 seconds. That is easily enough time to escape/get out seeing as most ultimates recharge in 100 seconds,

In conclusion, 6 MS is literally nothing.

LaughingStaplerMar 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

6 MS is almost nothing. That means a champion can walk 1.06 teemos in the time it takes the same champion without the speed to walk 1 teemo. Or given the scenario a 325 ms champ w/ warrior chases a 325 ms champ w/out warrior starting from the 500 units where the passive kicks in, they will reach them after...

83.3 seconds. That is easily enough time to escape/get out seeing as most ultimates recharge in 100 seconds,

In conclusion, 6 MS is literally nothing.

It's not literally nothing since the number is greater than zero. It's equivalent to about a MS Q when you're on top of a champion. I didn't say this was a big buff and nor does Warrior need a large buff.

AATTRROOXXMar 4, 20167 votes

This isn't a big buff or a small buff, this is an addition of confusing text that would have the least impact of anything in the game even less than a single AD buff/nerf to a character. Even at 100 units away from a champ it would still take 16 seconds to reach them. This concept is good, but at 6 MS it has an impossibly small effect on the game and wouldn't be a buff or nerf to Warrior, but an addition of text.

LaughingStaplerMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This isn't a big buff or a small buff, this is an addition of confusing text that would have the least impact of anything in the game even less than a single AD buff/nerf to a character. Even at 100 units away from a champ it would still take 16 seconds to reach them. This concept is good, but at 6 MS it has an impossibly small effect on the game and wouldn't be a buff or nerf to Warrior, but an addition of text.

You're basically saying that all small buffs are pointless which is a pretty dumb argument. It reminds me of people saying how almost every mastery is "useless" just because it doesn't give a huge bonus.

Obviously all this stuff adds up. Sometimes even a 5 flat base MS reduction on a champion can lower winrates 3% or more so seemingly small changes do matter more than you think over a large sample of games. Even this 6 MS when near enemies would probably bump Warrior's winrate by ~.25%,

dangopeeMar 5, 20162 votes

You are ruining your thread with your own stupidity.

AATTRROOXXMar 5, 20162 votes

You're basically saying that all small buffs are pointless which is a pretty dumb argument.

I'm saying that this particular buff is so minuscule that it will never change the outcome of any circumstance feasible in this game.

Because statistics based on chasing people aren't getting to you, I'll try another statistic.

The "wanderer" tier one mastery grants 0.6-3% bonus MS. Seeing as nobody in their right mind will take an odd tiered mastery without putting 5 points into it, it will give 3% MS to any champion out of combat. 3% of 325 and 355 (the 2 extreme base MS values of any champ) is 9.75-10.65 that makes a 6 movement speed buff weaker than a tier one mastery. (without boots mind you)

I do think that this is a good concept for a Warrior "buff," but 6 flat MS is too weak to do anything significant ever. 3-6% MS would be a great value and a reasonable passive for this enchantment.

LaughingStaplerMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying that this particular buff is so minuscule that it will never change the outcome of any circumstance feasible in this game.

Because statistics based on chasing people aren't getting to you, I'll try another statistic.

The "wanderer" tier one mastery grants 0.6-3% bonus MS. Seeing as nobody in their right mind will take an odd tiered mastery without putting 5 points into it, it will give 3% MS to any champion out of combat. 3% of 325 and 355 (the 2 extreme base MS values of any champ) is 9.75-10.65 that makes a 6 movement speed buff weaker than a tier one mastery. (without boots mind you)

I do think that this is a good concept for a Warrior "buff," but 6 flat MS is too weak to do anything significant ever. 3-6% MS would be a great value and a reasonable passive for this enchantment.

I understand your point perfectly but I think you underestimate small differences. Even this situational 6 MS buff is probably worth at least 15g and it may in certain very rare cases let you just barely get an AA off.

In any case, my initial idea was to make it a 10 MS buff when within 500 range of an enemy champion. I just hope that it wouldn't unbalance the item. That's why I suggested 6 MS as a starting point. They can, for example, make it 6 MS in 6.x and then next patch, bring it to 10 if it's still not doing it.

AATTRROOXXMar 5, 20161 votes

MS is a lot weaker of a stat in flat values. Compared to AD, 2-3 MS barely does anything (like at all) but 2-3 AD changes a lot about a champ's last hitting/early power. The same goes for armor. I'd probably make it scale with level, 5-20 looks good. If you change the values to that it should be a fair buff, while not adding too much to require nerfs (maybe 5 AD or so)

EcchiOtakuTMMar 5, 20162 votes

Would be better if warrior was a mini-hydra, something like in:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M0AGGRxB-jungle-items

PikaCHU567Mar 5, 20161 votes

6 movement speed? You're kidding right? o.O % movement speed would be better than flat.

NarasimhaMar 5, 20161 votes

I'd... rather it actually have a viable passive. Something half-way noticeable. Even something like (and this is off the top of my head) "Your basic attacks mark your primary target for 7 seconds. You have increased armor penetration and critical hit chance against marked enemies. Subsequent basic attacks do not extend the duration against champions, and each champion can only be marked once every 30 seconds."

LaughingStaplerMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'd... rather it actually have a viable passive. Something half-way noticeable. Even something like (and this is off the top of my head) "Your basic attacks mark your primary target for 7 seconds. You have increased armor penetration and critical hit chance against marked enemies. Subsequent basic attacks do not extend the duration against champions, and each champion can only be marked once every 30 seconds."

This is too AA focused - especially for crit.. It needs to be more general.

NarasimhaMar 5, 20161 votes

Originally, I had armor pen and attack speed, but I felt like the AS was running into Devo's territory.

But like I said, it was just top of my head. If I thought about up, I'm sure I could come up with something decent, but honestly? Warrior doesn't even really need a change. It's solid as it is.