It often feels that Riot just wants to rotate what's strong rather than actually balance.

LaughingStapler·Jun 10, 2016·158 votes·6,053 views

After SQ was taken away, despite many problems highlighted with DQ before it was even introduced, I've lost the motivation to make detailed posts.

I will say however that I recently watched a Riot Playtest on Twitch and one of the responses from the playtesters stated that they want to keep things fresh. It makes sense that every champion should have an equal chance to succeed for whatever niche they have but I kind of get the feeling that Riot deliberately overbuffs and overnerfs to just change the meta dramatically.

It doesn't seem like they are actually trying to balance the game as much as just rotating through the champions for what's strong. In other words, it feels more like their balance philosophy is about showcasing a group of champions for a month or two and then either overbuffing or overnerfing to switch to a new group.

157 Comments

DoctrorpheusJun 10, 201642 votes

Of course that is what they're doing.

Keeps you from getting bored and quitting.

SirPurrrJun 10, 201673 votes

{quoted}

Of course that is what they're doing.

Keeps you from getting bored and quitting.

I'd much rather have an actually balanced game than artificial changes.

LankPantsJun 10, 201624 votes

Agreed, can you imagine how much more interesting the game would be, both competitively and casually if there were even just 10 more common picks.

61119563DEL1Jun 10, 201628 votes

Yes and instead of circle jerk balance changes. More resources could be directed to real in game innovation... such as new maps... mode... tutorials etc...

MhihnjJun 11, 20162 votes

Make tutorials first, everything else will follow

JedenVojakJun 10, 20167 votes

The problem is that LoL is impossible to balance by the basic structure of the game.

69982196_DELJun 10, 20165 votes

When a champion sees a playrate fifty times greater than others, that is very poor design (or balance). Yes some champions need reworks, but there are no more of 30 champions in need of a rework (a number in the top of my head but I think is a safe guess). Too many things can be done towards making all champions playable.

Troll for TrumpJun 10, 20166 votes

Yeah, but that's the thing that happens in every MOBA; A cycle of repeating dominant meta characters/heroes/champs.

DecritJun 10, 20165 votes

point is - is near impossible. They do changes to move closer to balance, but the point of balance shifts with it constantly. Hence, even thought the main reason is not to change just for the sake of change, the result is pretty much similiar.

WoonStruckJun 10, 20167 votes

They used to be much closer and try harder.

With a smaller, less experienced team that was getting paid less.

Riot's balance team right now is the equivalent of a bunch of executive board members sitting around a table, and every time one says a random thought they each repeat "Hmm." in turn 8+ times until their 8 hours are up, then they go home and ship whatever idea they "Hmm."'d at the most to their boss in the morning.

Vistha KaiJun 10, 20162 votes

They do changes to move closer to balance, by making perfectly fine champions cancerous to play aganist?

Malzahar gets near invincibility every few seconds, Zyra pokes you down with brainless kit, Viktor's laser upfront damage is undodgable without mobility spells or tons of movement speed, etc.

This isn't balance. It was never even close to "balance".

bulldoggamerJun 10, 20162 votes

You think thats what you want. But that would mean that no changes ever would happen to league ever again and people would get bored fast.

SnowplosionJun 10, 20161 votes

You say that now, but if they switch you would probably hate the game.

Vistha KaiJun 10, 20165 votes

I'm one step away from uninstalling the game at this point.

Riot once said, it's fine is somebody quits, because of changes to one champion, but it's a bad sign, if they quit due to game's state.

Ironically I'm here only, because of one champion. Everything else went to shit.

Tribbles FoxfolkJun 10, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Of course that is what they're doing.

Keeps you from getting bored and quitting.

Then why am I extremely bored of League, but not bored of Dota 2 after 1000 hours of relatively stable meta? Oh right, Dota 2 is quite balanced, especially compared to League in its current state.

Towards the end of Season 5, things weren't actually that bad. Sure, tank meta was kinda getting boring, but what defined games was actual skill. Junglers would gank often, provide lots of presence, and be junglers. Bot lane was your late-game ticket, mid was usually your source of burst, and top was your tank. 2-3 tanks per team, typically. (Tank top, tank jung, and sometimes Leona/Naut support)

ZT XperimentorJun 10, 20169 votes

That's what's making it boring; 'oh everyone just plays the top 20 overpowered champions, why play anything else?'

franticFurballJun 10, 20164 votes

Well, if that's the goal, it failed as far as I'm concerned ^^

Nameless VoiceJun 10, 20164 votes

Strangely enough, the only time I feel like quitting is when I'm sick of the same unpleasant champions being in most of my games.

The DeckownerJun 10, 201611 votes

Honestly that is the nature of moba, You can't have champions with different kits all have the same power level. The best balancing team can do is to make all champions relatively close in power levels, nerfing and buffing is only a cycle of the most op champion gets nerf and the next up becomes the new op.

But I think rito does tend to let some champions stay in op state longer and instantly nerf some other to ground once they reach op state. (RIP Sejuani)

MLDzXnRRRJun 10, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gU8zh6cy,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-10T03:16:16.258+0000)

Honestly that is the nature of moba, You can't have champions with different kits all have the same power level. The best balancing team can do is to make all champions relatively close in power levels, nerfing and buffing is only a cycle of the most op champion gets nerf and the next up becomes the new op.

But I think rito does tend to let some champions stay in op state longer and instantly nerf some other to ground once they reach op state. (RIP Sejuani)

They balance better than DOTA where the balance team cares only about the competitive and the pub games are dominated by cheesy heroes/strategies. Imagine RIOT never nerfing Devourer Yi, the old Jax, Kata and so on just because they are not a problem in LCS. At least RIOT cares about low level/elo players.

RespaktJun 10, 20162 votes

Dota has nerfed pubs stompers such as spirit breaker and bloodseeker many times when they were menaces to low level pubs but unpicked in comp.

Slamurai JackJun 10, 20167 votes

You're correct. In fact, that's what you're supposed to do as a developer in a game like this. Can't have League becoming a solved game.

NiyumiJun 10, 20166 votes

Welcome to F2P bullshit. Balance isn't lucrative for a cash grab like League, so they create waves of FOTM champs, in order to milk whales.

LeonTheHeroJun 10, 20166 votes

Just gonna leave this here

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/vWEoZ6X0-balance-team-qa-ask-us-anything?comment=00440000

RivvyJun 10, 20165 votes

Then they over nerf someone's favorite champion and they quit or lose the motivation to play. Because Riot. But seriously, I feel like every champion doesn't deserve to be underwhelming. Which in a good few cases, they have done a good job. I dunno. I just fell that out of 100+ champions, there should be more a little bit more value in picking something outside of what is 'overbuffed.'

LadyRenlyJun 10, 20165 votes

When I was a newbie, I thought they were trying to achieve overall balance over a period of time, and adjusting new champs as they come out, but after experiencing my first class reworks(juggernaut, adc) and the preseason, I now know that is not the case, they reinvent the wheel every couple of months, break the entire game in the name of shaking things up.

I'd take a bit of a more boring game in exchange for having consistent balance.

B1naryB0tJun 10, 20165 votes

I remember during the Cinderhulk meta in S5 when they overnerfed Sejuani, a balance member said "Yea, she's just been popular for too long, she shouldn't be viable for at least a couple patches"

A Miss FortuneJun 10, 20164 votes

It's kind of sad that the reason for all of these poorly made gameplay-related changes could also be due to Riot's gameplay and balance teams not having a clue what to do.

61119563DEL1Jun 10, 20162 votes

That is highly unlikely if you look at the companies level of success and turnover.

They know what they are doing and are doing it relatively well IMO

They just have different motives to what we (majority) would wish

XietninJun 10, 20163 votes

"All right, time to play my main!" and then a day later... "Uh, I hope this nerf to my main didn't butcher them too hard..." We have to figure out who to invest time into mastering. Then we get punished later for it. Some examples include: Corki Lulu Kalista Azir

61119563DEL1Jun 10, 20162 votes

Yes exactly

Now. Why would a company want shifting power as opposed to balance?

DecritJun 10, 20166 votes

Well, first of all because so is the nature of the game

second: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

also consider that pokémon online metagame shifts continously without ever receiving a patch - sometimes the thing is not about balance, sometimes it is about community.

otakoteepJun 10, 20165 votes

I believe that the OP is saying in the example that the champs A B and C are always the same getting tossed around the buff/nerf process.

What he/she wants is probably more diversity of top tier champs instead of the supposed few that there are.

DecritJun 10, 20163 votes

honestly, i think that will never happen. Even in a case of perfect balance, popularity and preferred playstyle will then dictate meta. meaning there will be no equality in champion picks.

in the case instead of almost perfect balance, where there is just a small % of difference between predicted win and loss, then that loss would be magnified aniway.

WoonStruckJun 10, 20163 votes

Riot's state of balance, regarding resultant diversity, is shit-tier right now.

In seasons 1, 2, and 3 I saw the large majority of the cast within 20 games during any given period. Season 3 was terrible btw.

Seasons 4, 5, and 6. Nope. Top 30% of the roster only. Because the difference between the top 30% and anyone under is so disgustingly large.

69982196_DELJun 10, 20162 votes

Yeah, they force the meta and that is a very poor philosophy by Riot. With perfect balance players will be more creative in their picks and the game would be more flexible (i hate to say it but "like dota2"). Instead they force us to play/ban a group of no more of 20 champs or play with a direct disadvantage.

MLDzXnRRRJun 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, they force the meta and that is a very poor philosophy by Riot. With perfect balance players will be more creative in their picks and the game would be more flexible (i hate to say it but "like dota2"). Instead they force us to play/ban a group of no more of 20 champs or play with a direct disadvantage.

You can go to any big DOTA (playdota, reddit, dotabuff etc) forum and see almost the same threads about artificial rotation of OP heroes and unneeded buffs/nerfs just for refreshing the game, not for actual balancing.

69982196_DELJun 10, 20163 votes

In Dota2 tournaments you can see as much as 80% of the total pool of heroes being played. In LoL you barely reach 30%-40%

RozzetaJun 11, 20162 votes

It doesn't feel like it. It's literally what they're doing. One of the rioters even said the reason they didn't buff Sejuani after cinderhulk nerf was to give others a chance under the spotlight.

Mandang0Jun 10, 20161 votes

I wouldn't even mind if they do this, if they only gave every champ their time in the sun. Unfortunately, Riot's rotation only seems to include the same top handful of champs. When's the last time an immobile mage was allowed to stay at 50% winrate and 90+% pick/ban for any appreciable amount of time? The last season where support wasn't dominated by tanky engage champs (and Morgana to counter them)? I could go through the rest of the lanes similarly, except for maybe ADC - Riot plays some perennial favorites and the rotation doesn't change that.

billxxJun 10, 20161 votes

That's because the majority of people find mobile characters fun to play. Look at overwatch, genji, arguably the most mobile character, has one of the highest playrates

Mandang0Jun 10, 20162 votes

Oh god everyone's gonna be comparing league to overwatch now, aren't they?

"well, just look at chess - everyone's favorite piece is the knight!"

billxxJun 10, 20161 votes

Chess is so different from these games that that example doesn't work

kaltenashesJun 10, 20162 votes

Oh yeah, overwatch and league the same

billxxJun 11, 20162 votes

They are pretty similar if you look

kaltenashesJun 11, 20162 votes

fps, no lv up, no gold, no side objectives

not for me

billxxJun 11, 20162 votes

Team based, objective focused, and you pick certain characters.

fractalfantasiesJun 10, 20161 votes

I started playing around the time Lucian was released and from the start I've said this.

They allowed Lucian to dominate the role of ADC for about a year before dumping on him totally and making him nonviable, then they left him in the trash and rotated other champs before making him oppressive again.

This is why I will not be buying any more skills, I know if I main a champ and I buy their skins, Riot at some point will nerf them to trash tier or buff them to ban tier, I hate it I want to be able to master a champ and it to always be there rather than the crazy train.

kaltenashesJun 10, 20162 votes

Better to have your main nerfed than reworked

RIP fiora/quinn

there's a guy (invertedcomposer) he climbed all the way up mostly with his 2 mains, singed and yorick. After seeing this guy, i like to think that if you know how to play a champ and enjoy playing it, rito buffs and nerfs arent the main factor that decides if you can or cant play na.op.gg/summoner/userName=InvertedComposer