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Why da F*** does Lee Sin have 3 stuns on his ult?

xxxMadLionxxx··2 votes·1,123 views

I was playing Ekko and was chasing a low hp tryn. I know I should not chase but I was like ... "i have my ult in case sh*t goes bad"

Guess what? A Lee sin appears and after using his initial combo I pressed R desperately trying to ult back. My ult failed and I died.

Why? because Lee sin has 3 stuns in his ult. 1 when he begins his kick animation, 1 when you are flying back and finally another 1 when you land so he can Q you again.

Some argue it is to make his animation complete. I remind you there are many skill that still affect you after using flash to get away. For example if you flash just as Ekko lands his W stun, your flash will go off, but you will be stunned at the new flash location.

Why does Lee sin ult not work like this? Why does he completely lock you down so he can complete his kick?

His ult recently got a huge damage buff. I say its time to remove the stun to compensate for that.

14 Comments

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

2 stuns+ a knock back (better than a stun)

not 3

still cancer

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

complains about overloaded ults

playing a champ who's ult is an escape with a heal and an aoe veigar ult

ACENOX2 votes

{quoted}

complains about overloaded ults

playing a champ who's ult is an escape with a heal and an aoe veigar ult

aoe veigar ulti? ekko confirmed to be the next anti-mages

oh wait

Dark Nephthys1 votes

{quoted}

complains about overloaded ults

playing a champ who's ult is an escape with a heal and an aoe veigar ult

I don't think Ekko's ult is really that op anymore ever since he was nerfed a bit after release. Easy to dodge by just paying attention to his ghost following him, it's damage is pretty good but if you could avoid it than its basically just an escape/heal then. Also I think Ekko is actually better as a off-tank Jungler/Top lane champion more than mid lane burst and in that case the ult doesn't do an insane amount of damage.

LeeSin's ult on the other hand is a point and click skill that has a pretty high amount of damage and CC on it. Say what you want about "how hard he is to play" but I always thought he was pretty easy to play, and even if you are the worst Lee Sin player ever, anyone can play Lee and walk up to their target, Q > Ult > Re-activate Q > E and that's all un-dodgeable damage that basically can instant kill carries.

Fızz1 votes

Thresh

Dominick Destine1 votes

Lee Sin is one of the most broken champions if not THE most broken champions and his ultimate is a micro-cosm of why his design is FUBAR'd.

Syndra , Scatter the Weak - Pushes the enemy back, no stun component.

Lee Sin - Mini snare followed by a mini stun, then application of damage, then stun-pushes the enemy back with a potential AoE stun to the enemy team, then a mini stun upon reaching the end of the push allowing for a brief follow up potential.

And before you say "Oh but Lee's is an ult and Syndra's is not" alright then; Janna's ult "Monsoon" will push enemies back with no initial mini stun and only a VERY brief ultra-mini stun after the target is pushed back. Enemies can flash out or use instant moves when affected by her ult, something that cannot be done against Lee's ult.

Now compare the Janna (No damage) ult cd (150/135/120) vs. Lee's (High damage) ult cd (90/75/60).

Now remember that Lee Sin's ult damage scales with 2.0 AD ratio....manaless... in AoE... in addition to a multi-layered stun... BEHOLD, BALANCE!

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJc6pcyP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-06T23:13:14.256+0000)

Lee Sin is one of the most broken champions if not THE most broken champions and his ultimate is a micro-cosm of why his design is FUBAR'd.

Syndra , Scatter the Weak - Pushes the enemy back, no stun component.

Lee Sin - Mini snare followed by a mini stun, then application of damage, then stun-pushes the enemy back with a potential AoE stun to the enemy team, then a mini stun upon reaching the end of the push allowing for a brief follow up potential.

And before you say "Oh but Lee's is an ult and Syndra's is not" alright then; Janna's ult "Monsoon" will push enemies back with no initial mini stun and only a VERY brief ultra-mini stun after the target is pushed back. Enemies can flash out or use instant moves when affected by her ult, something that cannot be done against Lee's ult.

Now compare the Janna (No damage) ult cd (150/135/120) vs. Lee's (High damage) ult cd (90/75/60).

Now remember that Lee Sin's ult damage scales with 2.0 AD ratio....manaless... in AoE... in addition to a multi-layered stun... BEHOLD, BALANCE!

Are you not a fan of his ability to build tank and still 100-0 anyone not a tank in 1 second?

Crett1 votes

Not taking sides or anything but Janna's ult heals her entire team. For up to 600 + 150% of her AP

I don't think there's a comparison to be made there, although I do think Lee Sin's ult is pretty toxic.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Not taking sides or anything but Janna's ult heals her entire team.

Incorrect.

Janna's ult, if channeled the entire duration, if the entire team is within close range of her, can potentially heal the team. In practical scenarios, that will almost never happen and even if it does, it is within established parameters (Not unreasonable compared to other heals).

I don't think there's a comparison to be made there

Given that I was talking about the mechanics of push-back/stun, there is. In terms of raw damage, if we use your nonsensical maximum potential; Lee's ult is up more often and if he hits all 4 enemy champions with the ult, I can assure you that he will outscale Janna's ult heal with his ridiculously frontloaded/overpowered kit.

Basically your argument was bad.... the point is, Lee is wildly overpowered, needs nerfs.

Crett1 votes

My point was that abilities can't be compared in a vacuum. Lee Sin's ult isn't a better verson of Janna's in any way, and it's not like Lee Sin has better versions of all her other abilities or we'd be seeing Lee Sin support a lot more than we do now. Not to mention Lee Sin's win rate has been 47-48% for a while now.

I'm not saying Lee isn't a really obnoxious champion, but rather than straight up nerfing him, why not think about redistributing power or reworking abilities?

Best KhaZix Void1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJc6pcyP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-06T23:13:14.256+0000)

Lee Sin is one of the most broken champions if not THE most broken champions and his ultimate is a micro-cosm of why his design is FUBAR'd.

Syndra , Scatter the Weak - Pushes the enemy back, no stun component.

Lee Sin - Mini snare followed by a mini stun, then application of damage, then stun-pushes the enemy back with a potential AoE stun to the enemy team, then a mini stun upon reaching the end of the push allowing for a brief follow up potential.

And before you say "Oh but Lee's is an ult and Syndra's is not" alright then; Janna's ult "Monsoon" will push enemies back with no initial mini stun and only a VERY brief ultra-mini stun after the target is pushed back. Enemies can flash out or use instant moves when affected by her ult, something that cannot be done against Lee's ult.

Now compare the Janna (No damage) ult cd (150/135/120) vs. Lee's (High damage) ult cd (90/75/60).

Now remember that Lee Sin's ult damage scales with 2.0 AD ratio....manaless... in AoE... in addition to a multi-layered stun... BEHOLD, BALANCE!

Janna's ult is infinitely easier to use and does way more than Lee Sin's ult.

Please don't try to say Lee Sin is OP and then use janna as the jumping off point it's fucking embarrassing.

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best KhaZix Void,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJc6pcyP,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2016-01-07T00:42:28.276+0000)

Janna's ult is infinitely easier to use

Lee Sin's ult is literally point and click. It's not complicated, the person you targeted can't even escape due to the multi level disable chain. Furthermore, that does not refute any of points.

Your nonsense is noted and dismissed.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

That's just one stun.

{quoted}

1 when he begins his kick animation, 1 when you are flying back and finally another 1 when you land

That's just one stun.

rG Thundrag1 votes

Its actually a 0.5s snare at start up into the knock back into a 0.25s stun. I'm not even going to discuss his skillset though

I actually find a more pressing issue is his disparity in winrates with average to great lee sin players is too extreme.

He has received a lot of nerfs over the years but also a buff or two, also itemization and meta changes are granting him favor.

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