"please give us more ap" "we need 100 ap+ items"
???????????
are all meta picks, they work perfectly without any problems as a support or a midlaner, and do not need to be buffed
there may be weak mages, but they are a minority and this is due to their weak kit rather than the AP itemization
in any case riot shouldn't do anything, but help assassins like talon that has 43% win rate.
Weathered9 votes 45% winrate
49% winrate
47% winrate
49% winrate
You are generalizing too much , about a third of the ones you mentioned have sub 50 winrates, a third have 50, and a third above that.
Best princess EU11 votesescuse me but what the fuck?
above plat veigar has 50% winrate, zyra has 51% win rate, karthus has 51% win rate ryze has 45% win rate but is still strong if you master him
holy shit lmfao
Weathered12 votesEUW and NA charts are different, chill. The boards are primarily NA, so I used winrates from that server.
Ahristocats3 votesit's hard to imagine zyra with a bad win rate, and 49% isn't even that bad
Weathered3 votesI didn't say she had a bad winrate, I was listing that a few are sub 50, just to provide context. I'm not even disagreeing with the guy's original post.
TheHappyReaperz2 votes"above plat"
Jaygo415 votesI'm gonna disagree with you here. First of all, Ryze teeters on 49% because he's hard to play at the highest level.
- 55%
- 54.2%
- 53.89%
- 53.84%
- 53.8%
- 53.47%
and the list actually goes on, and on, and on.
Cherry picking those people right around and under 50% doesn't do it for me.
Their assassin counterparts ALL perform horribly.
- 41%
- 43%
- 45%
- 47.31%
You simply can't argue to me that playing a mage isn't optimal in basically every circumstance in mid lane right now.
jadelink1 votesYou are conveniently ignoring the assassin reworks. You can't expect to have the same winrate on champs with recent, significant changes, even the people who main them have to relearn. In addition, everyone wants to try out the new stuff that looks impressive (yes, in ranked, because it's preseason.) This further drives down their winrates. Sure, we all agree Akali ended up weak after the rework, the others are likely fine, though Kat has gone from low skillcap to high, which means it will take a good while for her to become decent again, as players relearn. Talon had his gameplay significantly reworked, and that takes some getting used to.
ACENOX6 votes[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIPJAqA7,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-27T19:27:43.849+0000)
in any case riot shouldn't do anything, but help assassins like talon that has 43% win rate.
they won't they already know the issue and tried to buff assassins by giving them more mr+ad items
Saianna2 votes
GULAG 4 U4 votesThe boards are full of mags mains FYI, that's why there are so many Yasuo posts too.
RocketRelm4 votesAlternative Hypothesis: He's just a very, very hatable champion. I've never made a Yasuo-Hate post, I don't even think he's that bad and think people blow it out of proportion. But I 100% sympathize.
GULAG 4 U1 votesHe is hatable, and since he counters immobile mages (which are abundant in the midlane) it's not very surprising to see Yasuo QQing.
Votable Jester1 votesI'm usually fine with him, and even counter-pick him. I don't think I've ever made a Yasuo hate thread (and if I did, it was probably asking for a reduced shield value). Even when I fairly effectively counter him though, he's just an annoying champion to fight.
He's hard to hit, needs to be hit at least twice to do any lasting damage, can easily turn around fights, and remains a significant threat (not saying he's still able to carry, but you at least need to be wary of him) no matter how far you put him behind.
He may be a balanced champion, but he is an annoying one. I'm not asking for him to be nerfed or anything here though. Maybe some neutral shifts though, like reducing/removing his shield and adding some more damage to his kit as compensation would be nice, but he'd need a serious look to make such a significant change without breaking him (either making him super weak or although less likely, making him op).
Outdated4 votesThey're probably tired of getting blown up, by assassins, in ~2 seconds without any possibility of counter play.
Best princess EU6 votesyeah, what about mages that kills assassins in 0.5 seconds? "without any possibiliy of counterplay"
riot just made every non-rengar/kha'zix assassins trash, but yeah XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD no counterplay
Blu 12 votes[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIPJAqA7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-27T19:38:23.640+0000)
yeah, what about mages that kills assassins in 0.5 seconds? "without any possibiliy of counterplay"
riot just made every non-rengar/kha'zix assassins trash, but yeah XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD no counterplay
Mages rely on skill shots which can be dodged, unless you're
Ahristocats4 votesmages are the one that lack of counterplay
Lovelle3 votesThey're probably tired of getting blown up, by assassins, in ~2 seconds without any possibility of counter play.
Mages are ranged and most of them have hard CC, so outplay them. If Twisted Fate can do it, who has like zero favorable matchups, other mages have no excuse.
Ratbert1 votesTf has no favourable matchups because he has one of the most powerful stuns and is a late game monster. Especially now, with the delays on assassins, tf can simply gold card the assassin and walk away. He's one of the few mages that struggle more against mages than assassins.
RocketRelm1 votesI'm not quite convinced that TF is a 'late game monster'. From every experience I've had against TF throughout the seasons, he's been a generally trash champion whose only redeeming factor is the ability to threaten TP ganks all over the match once he hits 6. Exerting that pressure, especially with coordination, can be menacing. Late game monster, however, is not a tag I would give him.
Lovelle1 votesTf has no favourable matchups because he has one of the most powerful stuns and is a late game monster. Especially now, with the delays on assassins, tf can simply gold card the assassin and walk away. He's one of the few mages that struggle more against mages than assassins.
TF generally has to get in range of an assassin's abilities in order to use that stun. If he gets his timing even slightly off, he's going to take at least half of their rotation.
Astôlfo4 votesIf you died to an assassin, you played horribly and that was absolutely, 100%, entirely your fault. The only possible exception is if you were WITH YOUR TEAM, and they simply failed to peel/react correctly.
Assassins had shittons of counterplay. It's just trash players would rather whine than learn it.
Outdated1 votes[deleted]
Astôlfo1 votesNo fucking shit, that's the point.
Assassins are supposed to hard counter literally every other squishy champion in the game, except maybe like Malz and Urgot who are specifically anti-assassin.
On the other hand, the mage is actually a threat to every single fucking champion and entire team in the game.
The assassin is only a threat to squishies and ONE SPECIFIC SINGLE TARGET.
And no, it just takes mostly you doing it right, especially as a mage versus an ADC, since you have Zhonya's and multiple health items.
Penns2 votesThe only reason Id want to have better/higher AP items would be melee ap assassins but Id rather not buff mages with those lol. You could just make them melee only tho.
Final Spark Lux2 votesI think its cause late game it gets tough to kill some people even with void staff. Personally I try to avoid having a game go that long, but people generally dont listen to a support calling the shots
6Sfool1 votesIt's a numbers thing. They're used to seeing really high ap numbers but now they don't. The change to rylai's is just reminding them of the MYMU. Just like when you start a new game in borderlands. "My gun only does 15 damage, my last one did 15000"
ForgiveColour1 votesMage biased is cancer
Escheton1 votesBecause they play mages. /thread
Divewing1 votesWhere to begin....
Well for a start, you can exclude Viktor, Syndra, Veigar, Velkoz, and Ryze from that list because they all have some form of multiplier/outside scaling/different damage type (Hex-core, Ball-ult multiplier, AP stacking passive, true damage ultimate, mana scaling).
Karthus, Cass, and Anivia are all picks practiced predominantly by mains, so you'd expect them to appear strong/fine on the surface, were the playrate to increase it'd end up looking more like Talon currently does.
Zyra and Brand i'll be honest confuse me because i'm not sure if they're strong bot, or weak mid, either way they are steadily becoming part of the support pool.
This Leaves Orianna, Annie, Ahri, and Leblanc. Annie is gimmicky, always has, always will. Ahri has been likely too strong for a while now but Riot seems to not care..? (So i concede this one) Orianna is, dare i say, also a bit too strong? Regardless, quick simple number changes would fix (another one conceded) And lastly, LeBlanc. I'll be honest I haven't seen her all too much, personally i think shes fine, but you seem to have a reason to put her on your list, so we can leave her on the fence.
Which means your choice of champions that could be seen as accurate generalisations of mid-mages across the board really only has 2 that carry any solid weight, which I've also agreed with, and in fact think they need nerfing. The rest either are inaccurate because they have either unique forms of damage multiplication/addition and/or typing that most mages dont, are low-play rate champions that are played by mains, or don't really go mid anymore. Or is Annie.
This means that 
minimum would get the shaft because Orianna and Ahri are a bit strong, and then if we include junglers and supports 
would get the shaft because Brand and Zyra are pretty rough.
A final note on the assassins; people are failing because they are stuck with the archaic mindset of "I go in and 1-shot", rather than using the tools given to them in the update to make PLAYS. They are simply trying to stat-check their opponents, and it costs them. Assassins have gone from "play faster" to "play smarter". Most just haven't caught on, and as a long time talon player myself, he's been working great for me, but I've been watching his playrate, ad it's way higher than it used to, which tells me people are picking him and thinking he functions the EXACT same as before. THAT is why Talon's win rate is so low.
