Twitch is balanced because his early game is shit

Best princess EU·Aug 18, 2017·88 votes·3,936 views

https://na.op.gg/champion/twitch/statistics/adc

https://i.gyazo.com/879ab35e0977c7d5af07ca3f45cc118f.png

and by shit, i mean that he can't kill your entire team at min 5

51 Comments

Stars ShaperAug 18, 201738 votes

"Early game" is now the time you need to get form the Nexus to your lane.

koshkyraAug 18, 201731 votes

200 damage E at level 1 disagrees but k

Best princess EUAug 18, 201731 votes

51% win rate at early game

completly balanced mate, don't you agree

RankOneUgandaAug 19, 20173 votes

200 is a stretch. level 1 E with a typical rune page does about ~150

the weeabooAug 19, 201712 votes

God I love it when people just throw around numbers to contribute to the circlejerk. First of all it doesnt do that much. secondly they need to be auto attacked three times first at the very least, six max if they dont stay in your poison or if It's on coooldown or you're out of mana.

And before you try to argue with me his E at level 1 does 20 + 15 per stack (+25% BONUS AD) which means at 6 stacks and 8.5 AD from runes and 8 from Doran's, the maximum amount of damage he can do with a level one E is 134 which is roughly 2/3 the damage you originally stated.

BârdAug 19, 20176 votes

Love how the bold faces lies get the upvotes.

You have to auto six times to get max E damage, and you have NO AS at this point.
Assuming most popular runes+masteries, it would only deal 127 damage, and that's BEFORE RESISTANCES.

LeetriAug 19, 20173 votes

That's how the board works. As long as you agree with the current circlejerk you'll get upvoted even if you lie like crazy and make up stats on the spot. People want to be angry and they upvote anything that supports that.

JanitsuAug 18, 20179 votes

[deleted]

DraygenBiscuitAug 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The reason why Twitch is so overwhelming anywhere below high Elo is that he can be so safe against teams who do not communicate or ward properly. If you don't allow him to win the lane where he isn't really that strong, you can deny him from rotating to other lanes and winning the game.

Well even if you do ward if he is invisible he cant be seen, and if his sup is with him breaking the wards then u are still in the dark, but ya it really comes down to communication.

Mig89Aug 18, 20173 votes

Which basically just puts him on the list of champs that can carry games solo in low elo. Low ELO doesnt known how to play against him if a twitch is acutally good. The problem is the most champs like this fall off the higher you climb but twitch is one of a few champs who is viable at any ELO from Bronze to LCS.

JanitsuAug 18, 20171 votes

There are several ADCs that are viable from low Elo all the way to LCS. Ashe, Varus, Miss Fortune and Jhin to name a few. Twitch isn't really as effective in higher Elo as he is in low Elo because people in high Elo know how to not enable him. People who are in Silver or similar Elo, on the other hand, have no knowledge how to play against him. That's why his win rates are through the roof in the statistics.

Sir YamazukiAug 18, 20179 votes

{quoted}

The reason why Twitch is so overwhelming anywhere below high Elo is that he can be so safe against teams who do not communicate or ward properly. If you don't allow him to win the lane where he isn't really that strong, you can deny him from rotating to other lanes and winning the game.

Twitch is over performing in plat + and diamond+. He's banned more often the higher you go up the ladder. Globally it's ~19% and at Diamond+ it's 40%+. His pick rate and win rate also increasing slightly at higher ranks too.

Twitch can also jungle, which he performs better as a jungler at higher ranks too.

Not sure where you cam to the conclusion Twitch is only good in low elo. Unless you're suggesting even Diamond+ is low elo, in which case everyone is.

JanitsuAug 18, 20172 votes

I only said that he is overwhelming in lower Elo. In high Elo he has a positive win rate, but I think he is fairly balanced and good for the game without being too unhealthy.

Where do you get the data btw? Different sites show slightly or massively different data. I just want to compare.

Sir YamazukiAug 18, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I only said that he is overwhelming in lower Elo. In high Elo he has a positive win rate, but I think he is fairly balanced and good for the game without being too unhealthy.

I know what you said, and I said you're wrong. He loses more often in lower elo, he is picked less often, and his ban rate is less than half his ban rate in Diamond.

Where do you get the data btw? Different sites show slightly or massively different data. I just want to compare.

Where are you getting them? I checked 4 different sources and all of them show Twitch performing better as a jungler and as an adc as you go up the ladder. They all show him first place for ADC on average for plat+ too. (op.gg, champion.gg, LoLgraphcs, LoLalytics) In Bronze Twitch as a jungle is at 49% and as an ADC 51%, in Diamond he's at almost 52% for jungle and 53% for adc. Checked a 5th source (Lolking), also shows Twitch's ban, pick, and win rate increase when you check Bronze vs Diamond.

JanitsuAug 18, 20171 votes

On what basis am I wrong? I said he isn't overwhelming in high Elo (which he isn't). With overwhelming I mean someone who is unhealthy and annoying to play against in the game. Twitch isn't that in high Elo.

He is overwhelming to play against in lower Elo because once he gets ahead, you can't really stop him when you have people who have no idea how to play against him.

Sir YamazukiAug 18, 20178 votes

{quoted}

On what basis am I wrong? I said he isn't overwhelming in high Elo (which he isn't). With overwhelming I mean someone who is unhealthy and annoying to play against in the game. Twitch isn't that in high Elo.

He is overwhelming to play against in lower Elo because once he gets ahead, you can't really stop him when you have people who have no idea how to play against him.

Overwhelming=Very strong Very strong champions=wins a lot Twitch=wins a lot in high elo, and not low elo All the above=contradicting your claim

You can't say he's strong in low elo only when he's at his strongest at high elo, if he's overwhelming in low elo, then by basic common sense/logic that means he's even more overwhelming in high elo because he's even stronger in high elo than he is in low elo.

Something else you're doing wrong is the good old enemy team is bad and Twitch is good argument. A low elo Twitch does NOT know how to take advantage of his kit, but a high elo player does. While the opposing team will be better, but so will the person playing Twitch. We are not talking about taking a random Bronze player, giving him Twitch and slapping him into a Diamond game. We are talking about a high elo Twitch in a high elo game.

Anyways, this is going to just be repetitive and I've more or less stated my point, have a good day.

Sexy Fish NamiAug 19, 20171 votes

You overestimate diamond players lol.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 18, 20175 votes

below high elo ??? He has the absolute highest winrate in masters. For half a year he has been sitting in 55%-60(!)% winrate from dia to master and no the sample size wasn't small over a thousand games in masters. Now he is mostly permabanned i guess and i haven't looked up recent statistics but he has had a 51% winrate in bronze and grew a percent in every tier and then spiked 55-60 from diamond to master so no he is not a low elo problem.

SohleksAug 18, 20171 votes

He's a popular booster champ. But. There's a reason for that.

DeadUnbornAug 18, 20176 votes

don't know why you are getting downvoted if what you are saying is true. Twitch is strong always, but he is strongest by exploiting the enemy's inability to communicated and clean tF late game by ambushing the entire enemy team once they commit to a fight

OyddAWqJ5rAug 18, 201715 votes

Because it's false. Diamond games are constantly being dominated by Twitch mains all the time. The only time I ever see Twitch is if it's a smurf or a Twitch main and dear god they never end up with a reasonable score. It's not uncommon to see something like 18/0/12 whenever you have a Twitch in the game.

Edit: Just played with two on my teams yesterday actually, 11/0/3 and 24/2/7. Glad they were on my team. One game loss with one on the other team, 6/1/7.

CatastropAug 19, 20172 votes

What does low ELO have to do with this? You realize these are plat+ games right?

JanitsuAug 19, 20171 votes

Plat+ include Platinum V to Diamond V, and the majority of the games played that show in the statistics are played in Platinum MMR.

Dr PoroAug 19, 20172 votes

That's why LCS teams pick him. They expect their opponents to have poor communication and warding?

He's a top tier pick in every bracket of skill.

JanitsuAug 19, 20171 votes

Twitch has seen two games in LCK ever since Spring Split, not exactly a top tier pick in my opinion.

And you can misinterpret what I am saying all you want but I only stated that he seems overwhelming in lower Elo than he does in higher Elo due to the fact that snowballing is very different concept when you compare a high diamond MMR game to a silver MMR game.

Dr PoroAug 19, 20171 votes

Twitch winrate last 7 days: Diamond+: 52.9% Platinum+: 52.5% Gold: 52.4% Silver: 52.1% Bronze: 51.5%

Granted that the average winrate of the top tier champs is slightly lower in lower ELO, I'd say the statistics don't show Twitch being more overwhelming in low ELO.

You can argue that better opponents will be quicker to punish you for a weak early game. On the other hand, a better player will also be better at getting through that early game by playing more safely while in silver every moment is a good one to fight.

MizayaAug 19, 20175 votes

Because back in the day if I picked Twitch, I'd probably end up against a Graves/Leona or Leona/Corki, and wouldn't even be able to walk 2 feet past my turret without getting destroyed. Nowadays you just don't get abused as hard, and get a pretty free ride into midgame if there isn't a huge disparity in map pressure from the enemy team.

FaustavianAug 19, 20171 votes

^^^^Seriously, Leona(any strong CC support really..) + High kill potential/single target damage ADC's is a twitch's nightmare without Janna.

GoronMuncherVAug 19, 20174 votes

Twitch op or itemization op? Just a thought.

The ChonchoAug 20, 20171 votes

both, early game marksmen bullies were nerfed and current itemization favors crit champs. not to mention ardent rush from supps gives him sustain while he freely builds crit. so many things need to be fixed to tone hime down imo

Enraged PigletAug 19, 20173 votes

imma assume this is from another board post I saw.

that argument comes from people trying to say rengar = twitch. By saying that Rengar was a weaker version of twitch which isn't true. Rengar before he was nerfed was complete bullshit and yes rengar is able to one shot people when he's meta a lot more often and earlier in the game then twitch is even now. Also it's not suprising for his winrate to be pretty high right now considering that late game scaling adc's that synergize with ardent censor is the thing right now. Even more so if they have kill pressure. Like Draven and Trist.

No one says that Twtich isn't strong right now. In fact there's probably not many people that would say that twitch doesn't need checked by Riot. What's stupid is for people to try and compare the monstrosity of Rengar when he's most op with twitch and trying to say that twitch is 10x stronger then rengar at his peak. While not even trying to contemplate that even if both champions have stealth and twitch is ranged and has it on his Q with attack speed buff while rengar is mellee and it's his ult, I mean rengar can be stronger then the twitch if Riot really wanted him to be. People just assume that those two facts make twitch permanatly stronger then Rengar no matter what they do to either champion. Yes twitch is strong right now but don't pretend Rengar wasn't an op little shit at time either. In fact there's almost guarenteed to be an op shit somewhere in the game at any point in time.

But yes saying twitch can't be strong early isn't true but twitches early game strength isn't anywhere near the potential of rengars. In fact that's why Rengar has to be weak. Because if he's strong his early/mid game pressure is way to high. While late game he can even dive through 5 people who know your coming and still one shot a carry.

Also another comment even mentions that the only time they see twitches in diamond is when there smurfing which then they have unreasonable scores. But thats true for any smurf who plays a pubstomp champion at any elo. I mean look at Vincent the challenger Draven player who smurfs 90% of the time. Even before Draven was strong he would get like 30 kills a game even in high diamond and litterally just kill everything.

Also according to the same website op.gg Twitch has the 25th highest winrate. Meaning there are 24 champions stronger then him if we go by winrate alone. Draven's number 9 and MF is at 14 and 1,2,5 and number 6 spots are all ardent censor supports

The DeckownerAug 18, 20172 votes

Twitch might need a base range nerf to make his early game weak. When the throws the cask on top of you, you either run out of it to get free hit, or stand in the cask to fight him and lose because full stacked E.

BoilTheOilAug 19, 20172 votes

I got downvoted for saying twitch was overpowered...

2Charmnot2CharmAug 19, 20171 votes

I know right? people complain about assassins all the damn time but at least they have to use their abilites to delete players off the map.

Twitch can just come out from stealth and right click some random on your team to delete that player within a blink of an eye along with two others thanks to this stupid item item 3085

Too bad we can't dodge auto attacks.

JoseraphAug 22, 20171 votes

Jax

RexxieeAug 19, 20172 votes

That feel when twitch win rate early game is about 10% higher than cait win rate at any phase of the game.

Meep ManAug 19, 20172 votes

This is absolute nonsense. Who is this Twitch you speak of? A giant crossbow wielding rat? How preposterous! Giant ratmen don't exist!

league of pidorsAug 19, 20171 votes

WELP,tbh his DMG in early its pretty trashy vs Draven or Tristana

Magical ZoeAug 19, 20171 votes

Every adc sucks against Draven..he chunks you for half your health @ min5

BârdAug 19, 20171 votes

So don't all in the guy at five minutes without either an edge or something up your sleeve.

You wouldn't towerdive Morgana, you wouldn't chase singed, you wouldn't try to outdamage Fiddle Drain without CC or GW, you wouldn't stand four seconds behind an Ekko...

In the same vein, don't all in Draven in the early game without a plan.

DunkinNoobsAug 19, 20171 votes

Enchanter supports are too strong at all stages of the game and are too good at keeping Twitch alive to output his damage. His early damage is good but his survivability is abysmal; a shame there's a Janna/Lulu/insert cancer of choise there to constantly spam shields and heals on him so he can just facetank both enemy bot laners.

The0nlyLordREMAug 19, 20171 votes

ADCs in general are OP now together with defensive supports. My games end up with 6-8 bans for botlane champs

kargishAug 19, 20171 votes

I don't know why everybody is talking from an adc perspective, the majority of Twitch players go jungle because of his easy mode ganks and safety of bullies, besides counterjunglers of course. How often has Twitch jungler not gotten fb from ganking mid at level 2? Though it's a totally obvious strategy, it still happens a lot for some reason.

GelmousAug 19, 20171 votes

what do you mean shit ? 51% win rate early that's not "shit" do you know math ? it's says that right on that graph

DaNinadAug 19, 20171 votes

its a joke god dammit

GelmousAug 20, 20171 votes

maybe jokes should go to memes and games instead of gameplay boards

JoseraphAug 22, 20171 votes

Sarcasm is lost on some people

NoobTangerangAug 19, 20171 votes

they haven't made enough profit from the omega squad twitch skin yet xd

Ariel the CruelAug 19, 20171 votes

His late game too, by the looks of it. 2nd place at 40+!? Unacceptable.

VallalanAug 20, 20171 votes

Twitchs early game is TRASH. Like legit the second worst of any adc lane phase in the game.

Do not use win rate to try to skew reality, twitch will always have a higher win rate in the 0-25 range because if you fuck up vs twitch and he gets going. The game is over, he snowballs VERY hard because he shouldn't be getting fed. But with stealth he can abuse his lead better than most adcs.

It's not like vayne who might have a kill on you but can't just sneak up on you for a free kill.

Twitchs problem is not he's too good early, or his lane phase is too good for how strong he is later.

His kit is fundamentally unhealthy and cancer to play against. There is basically no counterplay when he gets ahead and if he's behind like he should be you HAVE to close out before he gets 3 items or the game is over. If twitch is in the right hands he is a time bomb. No champion should be a time bomb.