Shen: "we want shen to build damage instead of tanky stats"
translation: "we want shen to be destroyed in 2 seconds instead of 4 if he wants to be usefull"
10/10, continue in this way riot, it's so fun to not be able to deal with damage creep.
Ahristocats44 votes"just kill the enemies with damage before they kill" -riot
Mojihito66635 votesThats actually how you win games now.
Sahn Uzal9 votessadly.
UtilityPunk3 votesDon't get hit. Hit it until it dies.
Unstoppable Monk31 votesI tried damage-damage shen.
It was cool for about a window of one minute, then it became terrible instant death the rest of the game. I miss AP Shen.
EpikFeeder21 votesI never realized how bad it was getting until I was high the other night. LoL has become a game of who can one-shot who first. There is no actual pvp element anymore. PVP usually last more than .5 seconds.
Dr Poro17 votesThey nerfed his damage
"omg damage creep"
really?
Earl Eulrich26 votesyea, because shen´s dmg had been so terribly high...killing his opponent over 15-30seconds intense combat.
Sona x Rubick16 votesShen wasn't doing damage anyway did you see his numbers, no way shen could kill a target in 2-3 seconds, idk why would you be happy about this change.
Riot is just reducing the tankiness of everyone (
) making a "who one-shot first" situation instead of fixing damage creep
Elikain11 votesThey nerfed him because he traded well with people. The nature of his kit has no burst built in but he has ways of mitigating, dodging and shielding from damage. Inb4 "hurr durr, in some matchups he completely blows" isn't a issue here. In some matchups, where he can't make his damage stick because people play safe or have sustain, counterpicking him is intended.
D357R0Y3R4 votes-shen -trading well people
pick one
ReportTheSinged8 votesAre you saying shen doesn't trade well in lane?
D357R0Y3R14 votesIf shen is trading well in lane, then 
are trading godlikely in lane
trades in lane are about window of power, when your boost is here or when not. Darius can trade everytime, irelia when her W is up, and it lasts 6 seconds, jax can trade everytime with his passive.
shen can only trade when his Q gives him 3 empowered aa, and when he can't take damage for 1.75 seconds assuming you didn't save your spells for this moment, if he manages to not fight you everytime his Q is down then you deserve to lose against this pathetic trade.
Elikain6 votesTrundle, Irelia and Jax can't trade with Shen well because he has a shield and a dodge field. All 3 of those champions are heavily AA based. There is a circumstance where Shen can outrade with them but the problem with all 3 is when they get sustain and since Shen can't make his damage stick, trading with those champions is not recommended anymore and you'll do better with just holding off a lane.
That's a tank VS a bruiser matchup that you should already be familiar with. Bruisers are less tanky than true tanks but have more damage to compensate.
Darius is a different story. He is a juggernaut as his damage doesn't rely on his AAs alone. He can sustain himself + damage from his Q and he can wait out the dodge field to apply more stacks with his Crippling Strike. He's really slow and he wants people to fight him, and a tank has to be in his range to do so. The moment he stacks up his passive on you, you're already heavily losing HP, he's damage is boosted and his ult deals true damage + stacks.
The moment Shen gets some armor, the less he actually cares about any poke damage to him.
D357R0Y3R9 voteswhat aren't you understanding in what i say? his shield, his dodge field, all of that doesn't last long enough to do a good trade, once your field is over, once your shield is over everyone listed above will destroy you because guess what shen has TERRIBLE base stats.
his dodge is a FIELD, which means he can't follow you if he wants to trade, once the field is over, you're still able to trade with him, irelia's W lasts 6 sec, jax darius doesn't need anything, trundle's field lasts idk how many time.
and his shen's Q is 3 attacks
The Candy Pirate13 votes"We believe ekko should be the only champion played"
ReportTheSinged4 votes"Has nerfed ekko since he was released"
ChaosThief2 votesHe 100% deserved the first set of nerfs, especially the ult one.
0 mana for an ultimate like his? It's a bit insane.
Not xPeke1 votesKayle, Trynda and probably others beg to differ.
ChaosThief2 votesKayle's ult didn't exactly hit a massive area for 130% of his AP as damage, as well as repositioning her into a likely more favorable position; neither does tryndamere's ult. I would also think tryndamere was balanced around his ultimate existing in that state.
Not xPeke3 votesAnd there it is, the common misconception used to fuel one of the Ekko hating arguments.
Most of the time Ekko has to CHOOSE whether to use his ultimate for damage OR for repositioning. And no it wouldn't more likely be in a more favourable position. Most of the time when you ult to survive a gank you ult back in the lane, towards the Enemy's tower and farther away from actual safety (for example). Sure you can still escape due to movement speed and slows, but just leaving that bit of information you seemd to have forgotten to mention when saying it's in a more likely favourable position.
When you ult out of a teamfight, same concept, if you ult for survival you ult away from the fight, hence getting out of the fight and not helping your team. If you ult for damage you are smack in the middle of everyone and unless you did a combo ult into pre-cast W for stun you will be very vulnerable.
Ekko's ult is a fantastic tool, no denying that, but it is hard to use effectively and in addition to that most of the time you don't get both of best worlds. You either use it to damage, or you use it to escape/reposition. You can't list both at your convenience to make your point more valid.
And while Kayleìs ult doesn't hit a "massive" area for damage, she can simply stand there dealing high damage without risk of death for those 2 seconds.
Tryndamere might be "balanced" (lol) around his ultimate existing in that state. It still doesn't mean it's a healthy mechanic.
I'd take Ekko's ult any day of the week against the other two. It requires way more setup than the latter 2.
Spoofghoul11 votesif i want to play cough tank cough
i pick 
and build something like 
now im a tank with a fuckton of damage
i honestly don't notice a difference in in durability :S so might aswell just grab everything with health and damage
Sona x Rubick12 votes
, hit you 3 times and with his armor pen build will deal 1400 damage, cast Q+W then his 4th hit dealing 25% of the damage he did to you(and his allies)+someting like 900
no you're not a tank with that build
Saianna5 votesThat is still 4 attacks before Sion falls (+ his passive). Some teamfights last less..
So een if Sion died, he did his tank-job, so all's good :P
Meep Man8 votes
THIS IS HOW REAL TANK BUILD!
Spoofghoul6 votesthat 
doesn't
make 
you more 
tanky
what you should do
Anidan12 votesBest Singed build, 10/10
Jorencice8 votesSo sion is just sort of standing there?
Hasnt casted his q.
Or his ult?
Theres no high importance target killing jhins team while hes standing around trying to kill a sion right in his face?
Even a second or 2 in a team fight is enough for mages to help.
I hardly EVER see a team of 5 squishys win.
You need at least one damage soaker.
Ralanr6 votesTo be fair, all Jhin has to do is successfully kite you.
Like what he's supposed to do.
HateDaddy8 votesSo Shens ult isn't useful?
Shens taunt isn't useful?
Shens W isn't useful?
Shen was never known for his damage, please be reasonable.
D357R0Y3R8 votesto be fair, his W is really unnoticed, the area is small, it's 1.75 seconds, and it's around the sword.
i agree about his ulti and taunt, but what you should see is that riot there isn't thinking about damage creep in their way of thinking when they talk about shen not building tank.
Kudrov5 voteslol this game has nearly 7 years now.... they still habing HUGE issue with the balance team .... i wonder the fucking hell is going on with theses guys i guess they are not enough paid or something ...... what will it be when league of legend get 15 years old ??? STILL SUPER UNBALANCED OR WHAT???
ThePartyLeader5 votesWow great job only partially quoting.
Melledoneus7 votesThe rest of it is Riot stating the obvious and pretty much fluff.
RavenMagus5 votesPeople see the patch notes and think Riot is saying "We want Shen to build damage."
What Riot is actually saying is "We want Shen to build damage if he wants damage instead of getting so much of it for free."
There is a difference here, folks. You can still build pure tanky Shen. You just don't win 1v1 trades quite as hard if you do so.
Zero Skill Tank3 votesShen has nigh-spammable shield, basic attack block and an escape.
Expecting him to not build full tank, so that his enemies actually have chance to pull off_any_ aggressive play on Shen to set him behind is a right decision.
MrWasjig8 votesKi Barrier: Static Cooldown 10 Seconds Spirit's Refuge: Cooldown: 18 / 16.5 / 15 / 13.5 / 12 Shadow Dash: Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10
Yep, that's really nigh-spammable right there. You can't even reduce the cooldown of his shield!
Auz the Ripper3 votesDo you mean aside from his abilities reducing the cooldown by 4-7.5 seconds (depending on level) whenever they affect a champion?
I'm not agreeing with that badger guy but having a spammable shield is basically Shen's main defensive steriod
MrWasjig3 votesAn oversight on my part and an honest mistake. But I'll repeat what I said to the idiot Badger here. It's still completely static, and the whopping 7.5 second reduction only comes into play at Level 18. Even then the CDR only increases every 2 levels upto 9, then every 3 levels.
In a fight you won't have many opportunities to pace each ability to perfectly coincide with your shield. Still not spammable as Shen would like it to be. Personally I think his previous shield was far more reliable. Because if there's one thing Shen became after his rework it was unreliable (outside of his ult).
Auz the Ripper1 votesit being less reliable is the trade off for it being stronger
MrWasjig2 votesI don't see that as a benefit personally. I'd rather have reliability. I'd rather have the confidence to say without a doubt "When I push this button..." or "When I do this thing..." it'll have this outcome. You could argue that it made Shen require a bit more skill in the greater degree of unreliability but I just see it as him becoming more awkward to use, rather than being more skillful. Clunky was a word that was used a lot post rework.
I guess we just desire different things out of a kit, and while old Shen was simplistic his rework missed a lot of marks if you ask me. (Not visually mind, his new visuals are great)
Mr Fidori3 votesOne of my biggest complaints about Shen this season was about how they pigeonholed him into only building tank, when you used to have a choice between the two. So would probably be a step in the right direction.
But they didn't even buff his damage.
Elikain1 votesWhat? Where did Riot say you have to build him as a tank? You can freely build a Hydra if you want more damage on him or even an IE, if you want to become a Marksman. But the problem here is that you don't get to have free tanks stats while you're building damage.
Hell, even a Mejai's is viable on him as that item requires assisting your team, not actually having to be active yourself.
Mr Fidori3 votesNo, Riot never said that. But they did strip down his ability to viably build AP without sacrificing at least bruiser-like durability. Plus his old Q gave him really good dueling sustain.
Although, yes, if you really wanted, you could build Mejai's on him. It sure wouldn't be my preferred path though.
Elikain3 votesHis old Q never gave a melee champion a fair fight. Xerath was reworked for the same reason. His stun was a targeted ability before, that allowed him to tag a champion and in the next 3 seconds, threaten people with the option of getting stunned if they attempt to CS or fight him. And that was when he literally dumped all of his kit's damage.
I actually mained old Xerath, just because of that reason. He was fun for that fact alone but it wasn't fun for the enemy because they'd die if they get punished for doing exactly what they need to be doing. I'm not sad to see that go. Shen used to be in the same boat. Tag someone with Q and if he fights, you heal off it. If he doesn't fight, you rinse and repeat. That's a real lousy way to play a tank.
Was that really fun for people? Completely playing a champion the opposite of how his kit and thematic presented them and that actually turning out to even have more success than their intended build paths? That's really dumb. Just imagine ADC Syndra, Tank Caitlyn, AP Zed, Movement Speed Annie, AS Jhin, APC Mundo... What's the point of distinct champions and their appearances if you can play anyone in any way?
Mr Fidori2 votesWell I think comparing old AP Shen to ADC Syndra and friends is a stretch, since he actually scaled with it. But I do see your point.
Skias2 votesWhat? Where did Riot say you have to build him as a tank? You can freely build a Hydra if you want more damage on him or even an IE, if you want to become a Marksman. But the problem here is that you don't get to have free tanks stats while you're building damage.
Hell, even a Mejai's is viable on him as that item requires assisting your team, not actually having to be active yourself.
Then you die to an ADC and mejais is worthless.
Elikain2 votesWell, that's the risk you're going to have to take, if you want pure damage coming from him. A bruiser Shen is a Hydra Shen but that also costs you a pure tank item, as it how it should be. He's is a tank in a every sense of the word and you trying out other items on him isn't recommended but it isn't forbidden. They give the same stats on every champion and on you, the problem here is if Shen's playstyle allows him to use the item properly.
Mejai's is by far the safest option for him to grab AP as if you're building pure tank, all you need to do is assist your team. And in return, your ult is getting stronger and so is your Q. It doesn't cost much and it's a small investment, compared to other alternatives that are offensively or tank focused (Shen doesn't cast spells that often nor he has mana to spend).
AATTRROOXX3 votesSo apparently he also has the least damage of common toplaners and the least kills. [zombie-brand-mindblown] http://champion.gg/champion/Shen
