Lets discuss Pyke

SwiftKitten88··4 votes·1,608 views

riot's newest abomination.

now i have a few issues with his kit (listed in order of importance)

and its not the damage.. its not the shared gold.. its not the ulti reset.

its actually quite a small thing but together they completely break him

and that is

#1 his passive health regen has no time limit. if you damage him he WILL get that grey hp back unless he dies.. this can be 3 seconds later.. or i can be 8 min later..

there needs to be a time limit.. he literally wins every single trade for zero reason.

he needs to be FORCED to either use his ability or go into an unwarded bush to get his passive.. within 5-10 second or he loses it.. or maybe it decays slowly idk... but he cant just keep the whole damn thing FOREVER.

#2 his dash has a 1.1-1.5 second stun no... just no.. he does not need it in any way shape or form... its was just tacked on there because idk certainlyT wanted it.

you have a VERY nice ranged dash ability that does quite a lot of damage with a 100% AD radtio in a large aoe and has a very low mana cost of 50

you dont need to add a long stun to it.. remove the stun.. and cut the cooldown to something like 13/12/11/10/8 per level of the skill

#3 his base stats now i understand his passive to not get hp from items and i dont have an issue with this

but when you add in his base stats... if riot ever DOES fix damage.. pyke is goign to be completely unkillable he has the 4th highest base armor in the game at 45

the preceding ones are Leona Braum and TahmKench then followed by Alistar Blitzcrank and Taric

do u notice a pattern? in fact that closest "even remotely squishy champ tpo have such high base armor is Kayn at 38 which is tied for 11th place with 4 others which are Poppy Chogath Shyvana Skarner

again base armor is WAY to high

on top of that.. he ALSO has the HIGHEST armor growth in the game at 5 (where as most champions get 3) the few squishy champs that do get a number at 4 also have VERY lose base armor all except Nami and Bard being below 22 base armor this coupled together makes his lvl 18 base armor the highest in the game BY 15 POINTS now ok... now giveing him a 95% efficient conversion from HP to AD makes a decent and interesting passive but that is damn near a 1:1 ratio

maybe either give him high base armor or high armor per lvl (say maybe 4) and base armor of 35

#BUT WAIT THEIRS MORE

select pyke now we will throw in the 9th highest base HP and the 4th highest lvl 18 hp in the game again.. i get that this is to help him survive with that passive.. and yeah it should be SLIGHTLY higher

BUT NOT THAT HIGH

you give him an 95% conversion efficient passive

then you dip into maybe 2-3 thing slightly...

you don't give him a 95% efficient conversion passive

make him 4th in base armor 1st in armor per lvl 1st at max lvl armor 9th in base hp 5th in hp per lvl 4th in hp at max level

and and did we mention MR?

he is 1st in lvl 18 mr 1st in armor per lvl oh and low and behold he isn't in the top 10 in base MR

but seriously

i don't mind they "he cant gain HP so he gets higher base stats

but for an assassin he has about 40 extra armor

300 extra hp and about 15 extra MR

totally to about (at lvl 18)

40 armor being worth 800 gold ( 400 of that being at lvl 1) 300 hp worth of gold 800 gold ahead of the average assassin (only about 80 gold at lvl 1) 10 mr worth 180 gold

so at lvl 18 he has roughly 1760 gold over the average assasin AFTER he gets the 95% gold effcient AD conversion and at lvl 1... he has roughly a 480 gold leads worth of free stats.

now im not saying we need to hit ALL of his base stats.. but maybe tone down a FEW.

they may not be obvious now but if riot does what they need to do and lowers damage... its going to be CRAZY apparent.

8 Comments

Illabethe2 votes

Sounds like a ragey nonadaptive player crying about a champ that's pulling about 50% win rate, has a low AD growth, and is the only HP capped champ in the game, is completely brutalized by bursters, has substantial cooldowns, one of the weakest champs in the game versus Conquerer, can only either engage or run, not both, has no real built in damage.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like a ragey nonadaptive player crying about a champ that's pulling about 50% win rate, has a low AD growth, and is the only HP capped champ in the game, is completely brutalized by bursters, has substantial cooldowns, one of the weakest champs in the game versus Conquerer, can only either engage or run, not both, has no real built in damage.

right... because "adapting" means abusing the new op broken shit..

Illabethe1 votes

What's OP about 15 second base cooldowns? Or having to charge Q to be able to pull? Or having about 1/3 of the champ roster running faster than than your W?

There literally isn't a single broken mechanic to Pyke's kit.... Every part of it has significant counters.

boricCentaur11 votes

Man its almost like you just listed he's stat but have never seem him play since if you did you would see he needs most of that very much like every champion is different so he's stats will be different.

Oleandervine1 votes

I agree with the healing thing. I've felt his gray health is WAY too easy to recover, and the fact that it doesn't decay is just absurd. Even Evelynn is forced to disengage and loop back around with enough time to heal up if she takes significant damage.

What I don't agree with is your notion that his stun must be removed. He's first and foremost a support. He's got to have SOMETHING to help his team with, and his stun is his most effective way to assist his team in a big fight. Furthermore, it's attached to his only engage AND disengage, which means he either uses it as a one way trip in, or saves it as an escape. It's honestly fine as it is, and one of his few tools to effectively help his ADC set up a kill lane.

His base stats are another thing. He's squishy pretty much the entire game. He's absolutely forbidden from building bonus HP, which nukes a lot of viable options for him like Locket and Knight's Vow. He's got to have some way to retain his survivability as the game progresses, because he's not terribly capable of building up his own defenses as it is. I agree, that he needs to lose his permanent gray health if he's to retain stats this high, but his stats are a necessary evil for someone who's not allowed to build the more core survivability stat.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I agree with the healing thing. I've felt his gray health is WAY too easy to recover, and the fact that it doesn't decay is just absurd. Even Evelynn is forced to disengage and loop back around with enough time to heal up if she takes significant damage.

no comment since u agree

What I don't agree with is your notion that his stun must be removed. He's first and foremost a support. He's got to have SOMETHING to help his team with, and his stun is his most effective way to assist his team in a big fight. Furthermore, it's attached to his only engage AND disengage, which means he either uses it as a one way trip in, or saves it as an escape. It's honestly fine as it is, and one of his few tools to effectively help his ADC set up a kill lane.

the reason i have an issue with his stun is become how it is attached to his dash and the duration of the stun. as a nidalee player i can land a spears on him, pounce in and chase him with my true sight though his invisbility for all 4 seconds of my true sight duration (which becuase of his 70% bonus movement speed and my 30% bonus we can tarvel about a quarter of the map. and yet at the end of that.. he dashes over a wall, not only picking walls that are WAY too thich for me to continue the chase and pounce over.. but even if they are not.. be blocks the path with his stun.

u flat out cant chase pyke, i have a 750 range gapcoser and a 6 second ( usally around 4 second by the end of the came becuase of cdr) wall hop.. and yet i cant catch a pyke... even if i hit him with a item 3116 slow,, even i i chase his through his invisibility with my true sight...

then as soon as i lose vision.. he comes back at 90% hp and murders me.

he has similar mobility to Kayn

im playing NIDALEE i landed a spear.. i chased him through his true sight, he has no hp... there is absolutely no way this lind of thing is fair to face...

i have the mobility to match him and the true sight to follow him and cancel his stealth, and i have a movement speed boost just as he does. and yet on top of all of that... he has a stun.

WHY why as an assassin does he need TWO forms of hard CC?

he has his pull already..

the reason a champ like Blitzcrank or thresh has multiple forms of CC as a support is they don't have the damage to follow up and muder you by themselves

Ahri as an assasin.. have ONE form of hard CC

Rengar has ONE form Leblanc has ONE Nidalee has ZERO Fizz has ONE Talon has ZERO Zed has ZERO Khazix has ZERO (but a form of soft)

pyke is first and foremost and ASSASSIN,, he is already overloaded in multiple ways.. untargetability,, true sight.. a stun.. he doesn't need a 2nd form of hard CC

hell most remotely damaging SUPPORTS don't even have a 2nd form of hard cc outside of their ulti

the only supports that have more than 1 form of hard CC cant remotely kill you by themselves

His base stats are another thing. He's squishy pretty much the entire game. He's absolutely forbidden from building bonus HP, which nukes a lot of viable options for him like Locket and Knight's Vow. He's got to have some way to retain his survivability as the game progresses, because he's not terribly capable of building up his own defenses as it is. I agree, that he needs to lose his permanent gray health if he's to retain stats this high, but his stats are a necessary evil for someone who's not allowed to build the more core survivability stat.

??? he can VERY easily build defensive because any defense he builds get the HP on that defensive item converted to AD.. so when building defensively he gets offensive stats

his passive already has a secondary function (the heal) which would be broken even if he had no other passive and this isn't like Katarina building AP items and getting nothing from the mana stats and making the item less gold efficient this is Pyke paying for the item and still has all the HP converted into something he WANTS at a 96% efficient rate he donest need "base state" compensation for that,, if u want to give him "base stat compensation" for not being able to build hp.

DON'T CONVERT IT TO AD.

its really that simple... or only give him a SLIGHT boost to cover that 4% he lost in efficiency

he doest need 450 gold worth of stats AT LVL 1 FOR FREE growing to nearly 2k worth of stats by lvl 18 #AFTER getting a 96% efficient conversion

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

no comment since u agree

the reason i have an issue with his stun is become how it is attached to his dash and the duration of the stun. as a nidalee player i can land a spears on him, pounce in and chase him with my true sight though his invisbility for all 4 seconds of my true sight duration (which becuase of his 70% bonus movement speed and my 30% bonus we can tarvel about a quarter of the map. and yet at the end of that.. he dashes over a wall, not only picking walls that are WAY too thich for me to continue the chase and pounce over.. but even if they are not.. be blocks the path with his stun.

u flat out cant chase pyke, i have a 750 range gapcoser and a 6 second ( usally around 4 second by the end of the came becuase of cdr) wall hop.. and yet i cant catch a pyke... even if i hit him with a item 3116 slow,, even i i chase his through his invisibility with my true sight...

then as soon as i lose vision.. he comes back at 90% hp and murders me.

he has similar mobility to Kayn

im playing NIDALEE i landed a spear.. i chased him through his true sight, he has no hp... there is absolutely no way this lind of thing is fair to face...

i have the mobility to match him and the true sight to follow him and cancel his stealth, and i have a movement speed boost just as he does. and yet on top of all of that... he has a stun.

WHY why as an assassin does he need TWO forms of hard CC?

he has his pull already..

the reason a champ like Blitzcrank or thresh has multiple forms of CC as a support is they don't have the damage to follow up and muder you by themselves

Ahri as an assasin.. have ONE form of hard CC

Rengar has ONE form Leblanc has ONE Nidalee has ZERO Fizz has ONE Talon has ZERO Zed has ZERO Khazix has ZERO (but a form of soft)

pyke is first and foremost and ASSASSIN,, he is already overloaded in multiple ways.. untargetability,, true sight.. a stun.. he doesn't need a 2nd form of hard CC

hell most remotely damaging SUPPORTS don't even have a 2nd form of hard cc outside of their ulti

the only supports that have more than 1 form of hard CC cant remotely kill you by themselves

??? he can VERY easily build defensive because any defense he builds get the HP on that defensive item converted to AD.. so when building defensively he gets offensive stats

his passive already has a secondary function (the heal) which would be broken even if he had no other passive and this isn't like Katarina building AP items and getting nothing from the mana stats and making the item less gold efficient this is Pyke paying for the item and still has all the HP converted into something he WANTS at a 96% efficient rate he donest need "base state" compensation for that,, if u want to give him "base stat compensation" for not being able to build hp.

DON'T CONVERT IT TO AD.

its really that simple... or only give him a SLIGHT boost to cover that 4% he lost in efficiency

he doest need 450 gold worth of stats AT LVL 1 FOR FREE growing to nearly 2k worth of stats by lvl 18 #AFTER getting a 96% efficient conversion

Again, you are comparing Pyke to straight up assassins who operate independently in the mid lane. Pyke is not a mid-lane assassin, so you CANNOT make direct comparisons to assassins in the Mid Lane. Furthermore, he doesn't get "untargetable," he becomes "camouflaged," which is a huge distinction. He also has a lot of difficulty killing you by himself, because in order to do a bulk of his damage, he has to land his hook on your (or the quick stab), land his stun damage on you, and then auto-attack you in the mix so he can get you low enough to execute, if he can even get you that low. He's a fairly low damage support assassin who's very reliant on his teammates to help him land kills. Because his damage output is so low comparatively to other assassins, he's allowed (and required) to have more CC so he can act better as a support in his lane. Regarding his mobility, yes, he's an assassin, he's allowed to be mobile and escape situations. However, unlike other assassins like Zed, LB, or Talon, his mobility is actually fairly low, since he can only go one direction, and can't skip around opponents and lose them in the jungle like the majority of mid lane assassins can. His Phantom Undertow is a fine skill for this reason, because it gates him and his stun behind the potential need for it to be used as an escape tool.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Again, you are comparing Pyke to straight up assassins who operate independently in the mid lane. Pyke is not a mid-lane assassin, so you CANNOT make direct comparisons to assassins in the Mid Lane. Furthermore, he doesn't get "untargetable," he becomes "camouflaged," which is a huge distinction. He also has a lot of difficulty killing you by himself, because in order to do a bulk of his damage, he has to land his hook on your (or the quick stab), land his stun damage on you, and then auto-attack you in the mix so he can get you low enough to execute, if he can even get you that low. He's a fairly low damage support assassin who's very reliant on his teammates to help him land kills. Because his damage output is so low comparatively to other assassins, he's allowed (and required) to have more CC so he can act better as a support in his lane. Regarding his mobility, yes, he's an assassin, he's allowed to be mobile and escape situations. However, unlike other assassins like Zed, LB, or Talon, his mobility is actually fairly low, since he can only go one direction, and can't skip around opponents and lose them in the jungle like the majority of mid lane assassins can. His Phantom Undertow is a fine skill for this reason, because it gates him and his stun behind the potential need for it to be used as an escape tool.

why do u think im only comparing him to mid lane assassins

im not.. im comparing him to EVERY assassin in the game

NONE of them have more than 1 form of CC

how on earth can u call his mobility "low"

he has a sealth + a movement speed boost.. a VERY long range dash with a long stun attached to it

an untargetabilty ulti that also MOVES him.. and that also has a FULL reset.

compare to that other assassins like Nidalee

if pyke has "low mobility" then WTF is nidalee? immobile?

have we mobility creep the game so much that one of the most mobile champions in the game for the first 4 seasons now has LESS mobility than someone u are calling "low mobility".

nidalee is am EXTREMELY mobile champions.. and if your more mobile than me...

#YOUR NOT FUCKING LOW MOBILITY

like wtf is wrong with you that u can possibly think he is "low mobility"

thats like Hecarim "low mobility"

More from Gameplay

More by SwiftKitten88