"ADC don't need lvls"

doublelift fg··6 votes·843 views

i'll start to destroy this opinion shared by every non-adc players

Lucian needs his passive to do 60% damage needs his Q cd and scaling at its max needs his E cd to be low to do lucian's things

Vayne needs her Q cd to be 1 second needs her Q scaling at its maximum needs her ulti to give 70 AD

Jhin needs his passive to do 25% missing hp damage needs his passive % AD conversion to be at its max needs his Q to have its scaling at its max needs his W to be at lvl 5 to have a high duration root and be able to escape people/helping his allies

Ezreal needs his passive attack speed to give a maximum of attack speed (which i think reaches the maximum at lvl 13) needs his Q cd to be 4.5 sec to reduce his E cd and be able to poke people/kit people with IBG needs his E cd to be low to do ezreal's things

Varus Caitlyn Draven Ashe all need lvls They need to get a high rank on their spell to do what they are supposed to do

ADC that don't requiere lvls are a minority like Jinx

20 Comments

iBubbles4 votes

If anyone actually thinks this then they really need to start understanding the game.

420 grams4 votes

Or Tristana who gets range

TequilaZombie2 votes

They don't need levels in the sense that they get the majority of their damage with Items. If you are level 14 with full build your damage will be very similar to the damage you'd to at level 18 full build.

On the other hand an Assassin or a mage who has a full combo that reaches anywhere between 1000 and 2000 damage with levels alone will be much more reliant on leveling up it's abilities as soon as possible.

While getting to full build means that an Assassin/Mage will deal about 2-2.5 times his base damage in each rotation, an ADC's DPS will easily become much higher than that with his items, due to the triple scaling of AS-AD-Crit on his autos instead of the linear AD/AP that other classes have on their abilities.

doublelift fg4 votes

{quoted}

They don't need levels in the sense that they get the majority of their damage with Items.

lucian needs his E at lvl 5 to DO LUCIAN THINGS

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

They don't need levels in the sense that they get the majority of their damage with Items. If you are level 14 with full build your damage will be very similar to the damage you'd to at level 18 full build.

On the other hand an Assassin or a mage who has a full combo that reaches anywhere between 1000 and 2000 damage with levels alone will be much more reliant on leveling up it's abilities as soon as possible.

While getting to full build means that an Assassin/Mage will deal about 2-2.5 times his base damage in each rotation, an ADC's DPS will easily become much higher than that with his items, due to the triple scaling of AS-AD-Crit on his autos instead of the linear AD/AP that other classes have on their abilities.

While you do have a point i must disagree a little, there are indeed a few level dependent ADC's around. And while they don't need their max lvl as much as say syndra who needs to max her spells to have a passive they often have a need to max something like KogMaw who needs to max W for more % damage and then Q for the extra attack speed if i recall. Jinx is similar with her Q and Ashe as well. Really there are a few more examples so don't go saying things in general because it's easier, for it is wrong and makes you look like an ass :/

TequilaZombie1 votes

Really there are a few more examples so don't go saying things in general because it's easier, for it is wrong and makes you look like an ass :/

I'm not going case by case, but there is currently no ADC that absolutely needs levels more than items with the only exception being the ones who need their AA modifiers and use them constantly, like Draven with his Q (which adds 85% Total AD extra damage to his autos), but even then, you're missing the point just like OP.

ADCs don't need levels in the sense that they might be level 9 and you level 18, if they have full build they will hurt you a lot because of their items. If, on the other hand, an Assassin with full build at level 9 jumps on you, who's level 18, odds are you're going to easily survive.

If an Assassin/Mage builds full tank and have a level advantage, they will still deal significant amounts of damage. Why do you think Tank Fizz and Tank Ekko were a thing? Why do you think we never saw a Tank ADC abuser (apart from post rework Graves, who's not really an ADC).

Even for drastic cases like Draven who absolutely relies on his Axes, they represent, in a full crit build (which is the highest DPS build for any champion), less than 1/3 of his damage. Comparing that to Kha'Zix, who deals a base of 806 damage by himself and it scales with 300% Bonus AD. Assuming a 400 AD build this means about 300 Bonus AD and 900 extra damage. Basicly representing 50% of his damage through items and 50% through his base damage. Much different from Draven, who has 66% coming through Items and 33% through his Q.

The less steroids an ADC has, the smaller the need for levels and the higher the need for items.

EDIT: Let's go through some maths with Kog, since you used him as an example.

His W, Bio-Arcane Barrage, deals 7% of his target's max health as Magic Damage on hit. Assuming an average of 3500 hp for his target (which would be on a very tanky team, because with squishies running under 2000 hp, the 3500 assumption is likely much above the average), his W will be dealing 245 damage on hit.

With his natural AS scalling, he'll end up at 0,96 AS at 18. With his Q maxed, it goes to 1,197 AS.

Those two abilities combined will cause a DPS consisting of: (Base AD[98.4] + 245)*1,197 This equals to 411.04

If we give this Kog a Full build with item 3072 item 3031 item 3046 item 3085 item 3508 item 3006, he will have the following stats:

313,4 AD 100% Crit Chance 50% extra Crit Damage 1.828 AS

And his DPS becomes ((313.4[AD] + 245[W])*2,5)*1.828) that equals to 2551.88

Even if we take away the DPS given by his base stats, W and Q, we end up with 2140.84 damage JUST FROM THE ITEMS

With items, a Kog will deal 6.208 times MORE DAMAGE than he would with just his abilities.


I don't have the capacity to make this any more cleared than this.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

I am quite sure that Riot is fully aware of this and they do balance around this, a melee bruiser whom the ADC will shoot at a lot in a average game will usually have around 250 armor and magic resist i recall. That is a 70% damage reduction before armor pen. That remaining 30% is then something around :

2551 x 0,3 = 765,3=30%.

Now if we assume that the kog as used in your example is allowed to attack without interruptions he will indeed deal a ton of damage. And im not even sure that's his best DPS build since his W works on rageblade.

However that build is a pipe dream, unless he has god-like peel and positioning he'd die just from being poked. While i understand the kog math part as an example it's not something a kog would do. And the enemy team will constantly interrupt his attacking. ADC's are balanced around the assumption that someone will be disrupting them, and if not the enemy team is punished in form of a ADC attacking freely. That's why everyone always looks for a chance to kill the enemy ADC. Because ignoring them is meant to be punishing. A class that is quite weak 1v1 and against gapclosers and initiation ( a few exceptions exist) but excels greatly when allowed to do their job uninterrupted. That is the ADC's in a nutshell.

Zelorxon2 votes

Who the fuck ever said that adcs don't need levels? This is new, you bronzies surprise me every time!

D357R0Y3R1 votes

it's actually a common opinion that ADC don't need levels, but people tend to imagine all ADC like heavy AA champions like tryndamere and forget that some ADC are different like Corki Ezreal

Zelorxon1 votes

Legit first time i hear it, it seems i don't hang around bronze V that much uh, i was used to hear that teemo was op and that losing the turret on purpose was an advantage because this way the farm would have come back to you (it isn't true as the reinforcement wave will come quicker and you'll lose farm this way, if you want to farm more, take the turret and push past river) OH NO WAIT, GLEEB SAID THAT AS WELL, AND AFTER BEING KICKED BY TSM BECAUSE HE WAS DOGSHIT HE WAS HIRED IN THE BALANCE TEAM BY RIOT OH SHIT IT'S HAPPENING. But among all these myths that i don't know where they originated from, this is the first time i hear that "adcs don't need levels".

Ralanr1 votes

ADCs do need levels, but not as much as they need items.

doublelift fg2 votes

Some ADC needs their abilities to be at high ranks, or they just can't do what they are supposed to do

ie: lucian/ezreal

RookPusher1 votes

Really? Because I serve them fresh meat on a platter and they still walk away. #supportyoursupports

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Yes, but not as much.

Although the main reason an ADC needs levels is to survive just slightly longer against assassins. But with new Lethality... meh. They need it to survive tanks, then.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

[deleted]

doublelift fg2 votes

what the fuck this post has to do with mine? mods please delete this

TequilaZombie1 votes

To be fair, any assassin with a non Blink Gap closer will get two shot a by a double-spinning axe Draven.

Q-Empowered AA - E to stop the gap close - Q-Empowered AA = Collect passive money.

A Twitch can also pretty much Face Tank an Assassin once he's at 6 items. Gotta love 1k crits on squishies.

Vayne has the potential to outplay an Assassin and is not unlikely that she can outburst them. She's also the perfect Talon Counter. He hops over a wall? E him back into it!

Source: Personal experience with assassination of Assassins.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, any assassin with a non Blink Gap closer will get two shot a by a double-spinning axe Draven.

Q-Empowered AA - E to stop the gap close - Q-Empowered AA = Collect passive money.

A Twitch can also pretty much Face Tank an Assassin once he's at 6 items. Gotta love 1k crits on squishies.

Vayne has the potential to outplay an Assassin and is not unlikely that she can outburst them. She's also the perfect Talon Counter. He hops over a wall? E him back into it!

Source: Personal experience with assassination of Assassins.

Draven has always been running over any sqishy that doesn't kill him first though, this goes true even against vayne and twitch.

Iwinatlife421 votes

I thought It was more that Mages and assassins need levels more

khorney1 votes

I like to run scaling ad runes

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