"We Want to Nerf Riven without Nerfing her Core strength"

doublelift fg·May 10, 2015·149 votes·8,883 views

188 Comments

SEKAIMay 10, 201573 votes

"Huehuehue....." -- item 3070 Mordekaiser

idokiMay 10, 201535 votes

Mordekaiser doesn't cry or else he gets rusty

Chaotic ReksMay 10, 20152 votes

new rusty Mordekaiser skin, just a tinge of orange

idokiMay 10, 20151 votes

What kind of music would Rusty Morderkaiser listen to?

VarkreyMay 10, 201513 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtbuUlSGXzc

^This kind

Blue Moon WolfMay 10, 20154 votes

honestly, I do miss those skins with only slight differences in them, but those are now called chroma packs :p

DurzakaMay 10, 20152 votes

Morde hasnt really lost any of his core identity or strength. He just doesnt compare to a lot of other champions in the league, there is a difference.

Baron of BreadMay 10, 20155 votes

Morde's core identity to me was that he was the ONLY champ in League that had no CC or mobility. He no longer fits the bill, so now I am sad.

Blue Moon WolfMay 10, 20152 votes

Amumu no one ever remembers me ;__;

Hasztalan2May 10, 201569 votes

I just love how smoothly they can lie and the blatant favouritism maaaaaaan.

ABlueQuakerMay 10, 201510 votes

How is it even favouritism?

Rioters themselves would verse Riven just as much as they play as/with Riven.

Also Riven is a Computer Game Character, not a Human being. What good does favouritism do?

Riot does what they think is right, even if the player base disagrees. They're not actively 'out to get' players just because they main a specific Champion.

If a Champion isn't being played enough, Riot isn't making enough money from skins from said Champion. If their pick rate is as low as the likes of Mordekaiser and Veigar, then they will make larger changes to the character in an attempt to give them a higher pick rate with the thought that one or several of their core gameplay hooks isn't enticing and/or rewarding enough. Because they have such a low pick rate, their risk-to-benefit ratio allows them to take bigger risks with any potential changes they wish to make to the champion.

The EllimiistMay 10, 20154 votes

Yah after playing a game where the devs refused to nerf ever out of fear of community backlash I must say it's nice to have devs who do what is needed regardless of public opinion

OneSlickPhonyMay 10, 201533 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ellimiist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-10T15:30:53.821+0000)

Yah after playing a game where the devs refused to nerf ever out of fear of community backlash I must say it's nice to have devs who do what is needed regardless of public opinion

LeeSin

The EllimiistMay 10, 201514 votes

Tbh thats another example of why riot is good. Shouldnt nerf either just cuz some people think something is op. I haven't even seen a lee sin in like 30 games.

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 201527 votes

My god, me neither. Not a single Lee Sin.

http://www.memesly.com/media/created/ebgbgh.jpg

Ariel the CruelMay 10, 20157 votes

I did see a Kali though. So. . . Still a bad day. XD

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 201512 votes

TwistedFate Anyone call for a targeted stun? Annie I wanna play too! Taric They can't say no if they are stunned.

(As a TF main, Kalli makes me laugh. Hahahaha)

TerffMay 10, 20152 votes

Lol kalista can probably out-dash taric's stun xDD

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 20153 votes

Doesn't that stun get longer the farther away they are? So if she is far away, permastun for the game.

DorkunedAurasMay 10, 20153 votes

taht would be amazing if it did.

Stun a RekSai as she ults across the map, then TPs back across, then recalls. Stun hits her in spawn for 3 minutes.

ChaosThiefMay 10, 20155 votes

Stun and damage are longer the closer they are to taric, so no, outdashing the stun would actually be a good idea. Sad taric.

OneSlickPhonyMay 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ellimiist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-10T15:56:23.724+0000)

Tbh thats another example of why riot is good. Shouldnt nerf either just cuz some people think something is op. I haven't even seen a lee sin in like 30 games.

Not OP, just overloaded and almost unbeatable in a 1v1 and two-shots squishies and is cancer to play against.

Not OP.

Lao Fu the TigerMay 10, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Unmilkable,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-10T16:22:55.208+0000)

Not OP, just overloaded and almost unbeatable in a 1v1 and two-shots squishies and is cancer to play against.

Not OP.

Wow. Who knew that a champion specifically designed to be good at early game duelling excels at early game duelling! I'm shocked!

GorgiolioMay 10, 20151 votes

He also excels at being annoying -_-

ULTRAF0RCEMay 10, 20152 votes

you sure you are not talking about Shaco or perhaps in normals Heimerdinger also fits that description depending on what mid or top laner you picked.

OneSlickPhonyMay 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

you sure you are not talking about or perhaps in normals also fits that description depending on what mid or top laner you picked.

Those two could also fit my description, even if I enjoy playing both of them.

OneSlickPhonyMay 10, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lao Fu the Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-10T17:25:45.148+0000)

Wow. Who knew that a champion specifically designed to be good at early game duelling excels at early game duelling! I'm shocked!

Now tell me, what doesn't Lee Sin do well? I'd use the term "jack of all trades, master of none" but I dunno, he does seem to have mastered a few things.

"A champion is designed to do something, therefore it's okay for their ability to do so to be too powerful!" There you go, I just gave you an example of why your logic is terrible, no matter what champion you're talking about.

ULTRAF0RCEMay 10, 20153 votes

really bad late game is his problem, especially saying as he does very little damage overal lategame not being able to make a dent in tanks without building damage in which case the tanks will promplty peel against him and he will die quite quickly.

Lao Fu the TigerMay 10, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Unmilkae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2015-05-10T20:26:50.375+0000)

Now tell me, what doesn't Lee Sin do well? I'd use the term "jack of all trades, master of none" but I dunno, he does seem to have mastered a few things.

"A champion is designed to do something, therefore it's okay for their ability to do so to be too powerful!" There you go, I just gave you an example of why your logic is terrible, no matter what champion you're talking about.

Define "too powerful." To be honest, he is, by intentional design, strong in the early game compared to other champions. He should be able to win 1v1 trades. That is his design. He scales terribly, and his kit makes a full AD build implausible (unless incredibly far ahead), while simultaneously making for an absolutely awful tank if he builds no damage items.

He's annoying, sure. But he's not near overpowered, in my opinion. In fact, in the current meta, he's quite mediocre.

Loken StoneheartMay 10, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lao Fu the Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=000100000000000000000001000000010001,timestamp=2015-05-10T21:34:00.581+0000)

Define "too powerful." To be honest, he is, by intentional design, strong in the early game compared to other champions. He should be able to win 1v1 trades. That is his design. He scales terribly, and his kit makes a full AD build implausible (unless incredibly far ahead), while simultaneously making for an absolutely awful tank if he builds no damage items.

He's annoying, sure. But he's not near overpowered, in my opinion. In fact, in the current meta, he's quite mediocre.

He has more AD scaling than many other champions, an attack speed steroid, lifesteal, and if I'm not mistaken the best knockback in the game.

His lategame isn't bad by any means. He outscales champions like Pantheon but does significantly better early game as well. He's only bearable now mostly because they removed the attack speed slow on his E, meaning he wasn't hands down one of the best late game utility champions as well.

lDontLiftIcarryMay 10, 20152 votes

its not about how often hes played its about how easy the kit is to manipulate to control a game.

He's fucking retarded on someone who even has decent mechanics to play against. he successfully invades level 2 with a percentage damage long range spell. He successfully controls objectives witht he same spell. He's always in range for E/W because his ally will generally flash into or walk up to you while he walks in so his W- flash R will most likely work.

He's not fun to play around. He's annoying. Always has been always will be. nerfs don't do anything unless they finally nerf the base damage of his ult to justify the displacement.

DorkunedAurasMay 10, 20155 votes

yeah, he's actually not that strong right now. The tank meta has done him no favors, and keep in mind, his Q isn't %hp, it's % MISSING hp. Huge difference. If you're full, it'll do very little to you. Besides, he's built around mobility. He falls off so hard late game in relevance, he just becomes a walking ult.

FirstSergeantBimMay 11, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Blue Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-10T14:58:23.857+0000)

How is it even favouritism?

Rioters themselves would verse Riven just as much as they play as/with Riven.

Also Riven is a Computer Game Character, not a Human being. What good does favouritism do?

Riot does what they think is right, even if the player base disagrees. They're not actively 'out to get' players just because they main a specific Champion.

If a Champion isn't being played enough, Riot isn't making enough money from skins from said Champion. If their pick rate is as low as the likes of Mordekaiser and Veigar, then they will make larger changes to the character in an attempt to give them a higher pick rate with the thought that one or several of their core gameplay hooks isn't enticing and/or rewarding enough. Because they have such a low pick rate, their risk-to-benefit ratio allows them to take bigger risks with any potential changes they wish to make to the champion.

Holy shit, I can't believe you got so many downvotes man. That's cray.

You provided the most logical argument in this entire thread and you're sitting at a -20 likes. In fact your post isn't even showing because so many people dislike it. So much for being helpful. Here's a +1 for your troubles. GG mate.

Hasztalan2May 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Holy shit, I can't believe you got so many downvotes man. That's cray.

You provided the most logical argument in this entire thread and you're sitting at a -20 likes. In fact your post isn't even showing because so many people dislike it. So much for being helpful. Here's a +1 for your troubles. GG mate.

He didn't say anything logical, he just spouted blatant misconceptions what a politican or rito worker would say. It's full of shit trying to sound as smart as possible but sadly rito's spurs might work on the half brained americans but u know we europians are not easy to convince us to eat shit just like that. So no bro. They changed both morde and veigar cuz they don't fit into the "muh lcs flashy durr durr " champ tier and watching them (NOTE: IN THEIR OPINION) won't get as much 5 year old kid spending their money on this game.

Literally both the Veigar and Mordekaiser rework made nothing else just further pummeled them into the ground .Have you seen any Since his last "minirework"? He is soooooooooooo bad it's not even funny.

CroaninMay 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

He didn't say anything logical, he just spouted blatant misconceptions what a politican or rito worker would say. It's full of shit trying to sound as smart as possible but sadly rito's spurs might work on the half brained americans but u know we europians are not easy to convince us to eat shit just like that. So no bro. They changed both morde and veigar cuz they don't fit into the "muh lcs flashy durr durr " champ tier and watching them (NOTE: IN THEIR OPINION) won't get as much 5 year old kid spending their money on this game.

Literally both the and rework made nothing else just further pummeled them into the ground .Have you seen any Since his last "minirework"? He is soooooooooooo bad it's not even funny.

Um Morde is sitting at a 52.5% winrate bro. He's kind of thriving in this tank meta.

Hasztalan2May 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Um Morde is sitting at a 52.5% winrate bro. He's kind of thriving in this tank meta.

Winrates means nothing bro. Besides i checked it and ye he is above 52 at which elo? bronze-silver-gold. Where i can play ad janna and still go 20-0. Pls.

CroaninMay 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Winrates means nothing bro. Besides i checked it and ye he is above 52 at which elo? bronze-silver-gold. Where i can play ad janna and still go 20-0. Pls.

Well considering it's been about a 4% jump since his changes I would think the changes has something to do with it.

Hasztalan2May 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Blue Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mciflyun,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-10T14:58:23.857+0000)

How is it even favouritism?

Rioters themselves would verse Riven just as much as they play as/with Riven.

Also Riven is a Computer Game Character, not a Human being. What good does favouritism do?

Riot does what they think is right, even if the player base disagrees. They're not actively 'out to get' players just because they main a specific Champion.

If a Champion isn't being played enough, Riot isn't making enough money from skins from said Champion. If their pick rate is as low as the likes of Mordekaiser and Veigar, then they will make larger changes to the character in an attempt to give them a higher pick rate with the thought that one or several of their core gameplay hooks isn't enticing and/or rewarding enough. Because they have such a low pick rate, their risk-to-benefit ratio allows them to take bigger risks with any potential changes they wish to make to the champion.

I wont even comment on this one. What you wrote here is an exact political bs nonsense response. But i guess the - 20 downvotes speaks for itself.

ABlueQuakerMay 11, 20152 votes

It's the truth. That's how Riot looks at the game from a business perspective. They release a champion too strong, make money from it, then nerf the champion 2-4 patches later once the hype dies down. Similarly, when Riot sees an opportunity to make a bunch of money several months or years later they will make radical changes to the character to draw interest.

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 201535 votes

Was Viegars Core Strength an unavoidable Aoe Stun?

Was Zileans Core Strength Garen teed damage?

You got me on Kassadin, but his Core Strength was deemed unhealthy due to "Ignore yo front line, kill dat carry" Teleport range was the only thing they could nerf without touching his actual power.

YOU BEEN WARNEDMay 10, 201542 votes

Veigar: No, it was his core defensive strength. Riven players would flip out too if her E stopped giving a shield.

Zilean: I'd argue yes, it is his only source of damage and one of the best reasons to pick him over Orianna . IMO if his ult became a skillshot or something that would've been more feasible given how many champions get to save allies in a similar manner to his silly ult Kayle Lulu Morgana Soraka Shen

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 201525 votes

A core defensive strength being used as a full fledged offense before his rework with the Cage. Any AP champion can tell you the woes of being Wall-stuned and being deleted with nothing else to do.

Zilean's damage was not his core (As a support), only because people would use it as one. An unavoidable damage to your adc as a support is your worst nightmare, and since Zilean was being played as a support more than a mid laner (I'm not sure what came first: Mid or Support) they wanted to solidify him as a support without making him too much of a hassle on the other bot lane duo.

What difference would his ult being a skill shot other than accidently hitting the wrong teammate with it. IMO, Zileans Strengths came from being able to deny enemy kills, and quick repositioning on the field. With how his bombs work now, he can now Zone as well as actually being threatening if he gets his first one on ya.

SEKAIMay 10, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Was Viegars Core Strength an unavoidable Aoe Stun?

What's tenacity.

Or you can just stay in the middle of the circle.

ModAcademy KaynMay 10, 201510 votes

Yes, because I will stay in the middle of the stun when he summoned it right on top of me. I'm talking about pre-rework Viegar, since OP is talking about nerfs in a sense.

doublelift fgMay 10, 20157 votes

summoning his cage right on you was the most difficult thing in lol and i never saw a veigar doing that. Every Veigar players were just putting it behind their enemies and while running away we got hit. meanwhile if we stopped moving he would miss his cage and miss his W.

Was Veigar a problem? he had the shittiest early game with talon and he would oneshot someone in the front lane or if he ever moved to hit someone behind he would say goodbye. meanwhile zed press W+R hit some keys and just destroyed you AND HE WOULD DO IT AGAIN, veigar would wait at least 15 sec.

R110May 10, 201526 votes

Summoning the cage right on top of someone is relativly easy, it happened all the the time. Veigar wasn't a real issue in soloqueue but the fact he was picked up in competitive as a support was. That means proplayers think he was worth picking just for the reliability of his E over an actual support kit.

Edit: A word.

Nameless VoiceMay 10, 201519 votes

This. Any decent Veigar knew how to land the stun edge-on to get a guaranteed stun, and then blow you up. There was no counterplay to this, other than buying QSS or Banshee's Veil.

Riot had described his E as being a "mini-ultimate" because it was so powerful. It ate up a huge portion of his power budget. Lowering that power allows them to add more power to other areas of his kit. The only issue is that they didn't quite add enough power back into his kit for the loss. I personally like the new Q much better, despite people saying that it's worse. It's made his laning phase much stronger (he runs out of mana less, can clear waves better, can poke easier.) I call that a buff. The main issue I have with his rework is that his W was designed to be landed once he'd hit his E, and so its delay is extremely long, and they should have decreased it slightly now that he is supposed to land it on its own instead of as part of a combo.