Awful and dangerous laning phase (ie. Hard to farm, poke at the same time. sustain is on the low end and doesn't have an escape till he has 6 which isn't any sort of leap.)
Zed shouldn't be able to farm / execute minions and destroy people all at once in his early laning.
Hayaishi27 votesTalon's instant point and click burst is everything but healthy.
Lord Dusteon6 votesI really hope Riot never balances assassins around Talon. A burst that is entirely put out in .25 seconds and then you either die (along with any nearby teammates getting chunked) or the assassin dies.
Lugg5 votesTalon is probably the WORST example of an assassin in terms of toxicity. He literally snowballs off of ONE kill. If he gets first kill in lane, you automatically lose that lane no matter who you are playing.
WarlockLaw2 votesI've beaten several talon's who got the first kill I'm lane without getting help from my jungler. If you sit far enough back on poke champs there is no reason talon should ever kill them. Also a lot of tankier mid lanes can beat him after dying like cho/diana/swain if played well enough.
Also keep in mind that for most of a game Talon has to use his ult to 100-0 anyone which leaves him more vulnerable than the likes of zed, LeBlanc or fizz who still get to dash after killing you with their ults.
ApexInTheCircle1 votesI've beaten several talon's who got the first kill I'm lane without getting help from my jungler. If you sit far enough back on poke champs there is no reason talon should ever kill them. Also a lot of tankier mid lanes can beat him after dying like cho/diana/swain if played well enough.
Also keep in mind that for most of a game Talon has to use his ult to 100-0 anyone which leaves him more vulnerable than the likes of zed, LeBlanc or fizz who still get to dash after killing you with their ults.
Ty for saying what everyone should remember when talking about Talon, He has to COMMIT Yes his damage is high, yes he can unleash it at the blink of an eye but he has no safety net outside of invisibility which can be easily countered.
I was running over a Zed in mid lane with Talon until he got the pink trinket and always kept a pink in mid, needless to say I didn't have my safety net. Zed however, still has his shadow play for when he botches an assassination or gets in too hot.
Talon does his job and does it right, if an assassin gets caught during an assassination do you think he's going to live? Phuck no.
Lugg4 votesHis combo is more than enough to kill any squishy in the game. Hell he even deletes tanks until they get 150+ armor. So he really isn't the high risk everyone tries to make him out to be. I have played enough Talon to know better. The only chance you have is to hard CC him, which works against any champion.
WarlockLaw1 votesSure his burst is high, zed can also kill that 150+ armor tank while also dodging all of its cc and escape with his shadows. My point is that talon can't escape AS easily as other assassins which is why he is more balanced
WolfChases1 votesTalon can't escape as easy as Zed because his combo is faster, deals more initial burst and his kit is less telegraphed than Zed's. Also, Zed's can't kill you in less than 3 seconds due to the nature of his ultimate unless you are 0/10 Twitch and hes 10/0 Zed that doesn't even have to ult you.
There is more than enough time to notice when Zed is using his ultimate, as I said before, there are well telegraphed shadows, huge damn X on top of the target and also every single spell on his kit on every single skin is telegraphed and visible as a Paris in the night time. If you can't peel him off of your ADC in 3 seconds than you deserve to lose against him and also, Most of todays ADC's can easily peel themselves against Zed in tealfight. Tristana can jump to dodge literally everything leaving death mark to deal ~100 damage, Kalista is constantly jumping and it's easy gor her to dodge Qs and even kite his E, Vayne - Oh God, Lucian? Graves? Corki? Even in high elo games, when theres a Kog Maw people are playing ''Protect the cog'' with Jana, Orianna, Lulu etc to shield his ass off.
WarlockLaw1 votesFull build Zed will kill a squishy in the same amount of time as Talon. Zed scales so hard that he can hit his q twice e once and auto for nearly 2000 damage with a full build in about the same time that Talon can drop his, yet Zed gets a much safer laning phase, is harder to catch out and force an ult from and can kill tanks far easier and faster than Talon.
For most of the time I've been playing Zed has usually been outright better than Talon at doing the exact same thing. If Talon doesn't get a kill by 6 he is likely going to fall behind pretty hard. Zed can just farm a lane until somebody is out of position no matter how long it takes.
NemeBro4 votesWhy wouldn't a champion with a sub-par late game have a strong early game?
TheDogIsOut1 votesWhy wouldn't a champion with a sub-par late game have a strong early game?
How does Zed have a sub-par late game?
He's like one of the strongest duellist-splitpushers of the game. Sure, there's those ridiculous items 
countering him but he's still really relevant in late game.
stealthfox942 votesHis damage falls of late game unless he's super fed, he's strongest levels 6-12.
WolfChases2 votes^ this. Lategame Zed is just a SHADOW of his former self from the mid game :) and only guys who play Zed know how hard is to play Zed late game. Mid and Late game completely changes his influence.
GastonBarnacles3 votesMan I have always said how toxic Talon is and that I almost always see Talon get fed and then chunk the team and delete the carry and even tanks when he's more than a bit fed. He can do that while invisible with point and click abilities. I'm glad to see others agreeing.
WolfChases2 votesWtf are you talking about?
If anything 
is way healthier than 
.
You can either outplay or shit on him with 
or while with only 
and 
is going to kill you in 0.5 seconds and believe me, implying that you are a human being with a reaction time of a normal and healthy human you won't, I am repeating...you WON'T be able to activate that once R's and E's on top of you in that teamfight or scrimish mess.
The only, literally only thing that keeps viable is his strong early game because every single spell in his kit have a decent cast time, traveling time and is more than well telegraphed comparing to other assassins that can point and click dash and nuke you with ease, and not to mention that 2 of main spells are skillshoots + point click ultimate that relies on landing those skillshoots right after. Even ultimate is telegraphed, delayed and can be completely unreliable and removed in late game when everyone gets
If Riot ever nerfs again, they'll have to compensate him with something, either less telegraphed spells, faster skill shoots or something else.
indeed have a shitty early game but he is definitely much better and more reliable than late game, and also offers much less counterplay.
Phife3 votesaverage reaction time of a human is 230ms... if you take half a second to react to anything you're fucked.
WolfChases1 votesTy for a downvote sir.
At 1st, take in consideration everything, 0.5 sec starts from the moment he Ulted to the moment he blinked on top of you and annihilated you. He doesn't need 0.5 sec for his W>Q>Hydra if he's good enough and you can barely notice him during the teamfight due to his ult being poorly telegraphed when everything is flying around.
Zed's ultimate is delayed, telegraphed by a huge damn X on top of you, a "HAHA" sound and shadows on top of it + it has 3 seconds delay and have to hit 2 or 3 skillshots depending on how many shadows he had 2 or 3, also can be removed by QSS/Scimitar, blocked by Zhonyas or completely denied by GuardianAngel and also..it's much easier to peel of Zed than Talon who only has to stay behind, wait for a tank to initiate and focus you, press R, point click E and unleash the KRAKEN in a split second dealing massive single and AOE damage due to the nature of his kit and Hydra.
And yes, normal reaction time of a human is 230ms but I bet you can;t react to anything that fast + take in consideration this is a PC game, not a real life, even a 35-40 PING slightly delays everything...even your
Phife4 votesThe moment talons E's to you, you can zhonyas and he can't do anything. Whereas zed can just R back to his location and be safe.
Talon will literally die, if he E's on top of someone in a fight. You keep saying when he ults first, you wont see him...Nor will he have an escape if he uses his ult first, Ive played my fair share of talon, after they removed silence from his kit hes been shit.
WolfChases3 votesWait, wait, wait, we are not talking about the CURRENT TALON, we are talking about PRE ENRF and potentially BUFFED Talon.
You have to realize that I am talking about FACTS, Talon needs just a split second do unleash his full damaging potential to kill his target or at least remove it from the teamfight while Zed needs MINIMUM 3 seconds because thats how much you have to wait before his ultimate explodes, and its 3 seconds in THE BEST case when you can instantly RWEQ someone with 3 Q and at least 2 E's, which barely happens durring the teamfight. And if there's something to peel you off or your target have a dash or flash you need a lot more than 3 seconds:
If your target has QSS you will be forced to AA like a moron untill they die because there will be no 3 seconds of your ultimate anymore ;)
Like..srsly, that's not a science man, just look at the animations and the nature of their kits. Talon has almost everything instant apart from his W which is again...a wide cone, not a skill shoot as Zed's Q, and not to mention that Talon's W scales better of AD, hits more targets and deals the same amount of damage on all targets while Zed's Q deals less damage on the targets behind his initial target.
And don't get me wrong, I am an assassin player, I like Talon as much as I like Zed but I am just looking straight in the facts.
stealthfox941 votesTalon is just a stupider version of Diana. He either all in 100-0's everyone or just get's CC'd blows up and dies. I use to think he was well designed now I think he's 2nd only to Akali in poorly designed assassins.
insaiyanbacca1 voteshonestly tho talons kit is not healthy he is designed to burst you before you can do anything which he can do pretty reliably, zed however will most likely not burst you before you can do anything unless you just fed him insanely hard and even then when he ults you still have time to zhonyas/qss and negate his ult. but i will say that zed has some tools that he probably shouldnt have such as his passive personally i think he needs a newer passive
WolfChases1 votesExactly this ^
Zed is harder to play and offers more counter play while also has a lot more tools to outplay you if he's skilled enough.
Talon in the other hand dominates late game if he's feed no meter what due to the insanely easy nature of his kit. He will either kill your ADC and DIE or make enough damage to the enemy team, not kill anyone and DIE which also helps his team A LOT.
As far as my experience can cover my statements I can say that a skilled Talon is much bigger threat than a skilled Zed.
Problem is that Talon is not as popular as Zed due to the boring nature of his kit because he's way too simple and people are getting bored of him really fast.
For example, I am playing Talon way better than Zed but I will always pick Zed over Talon simply because Zed offers more fun and is more badass and looks awesome because he's a damn NINJA!