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Which melee can go bot lane in your opinion guys?

Ahristocats··2 votes·2,259 views

Short story: I'm having a huge issue which is onetricking Morde in challenger

the thing about onetricking in challenger is that you play against the same people over and over again, so once you requeue and end up in selection if they ban Morde i'm fucked and forced to play an ADC and i'm really terrible at adcs, last time they banned Morde i went 1/5/1 with tristana

Now if Darius was viable this wouldn't be a problem but he is legit impossible to play here So i need to figure out a 2nd pick or maybe a 3rd pick to play bot

Conditions: -Must be manaless, or is AA reliant, you can't send anyone bot and expect to win against marksmen who won't end up oom and have good fighting/poke ability with ranged AA, if you send Azir for instance he will just run oom after 2 or 3 min by using W. -has ranged spells to farm -can shield poke/sustain poke -good all in -good damage later in the game

Now i see you comming to tell me to play Yasuo but one does not simply start to play Yasuo in challenger dude's skill floor is too high i would need months to play him properly

I thought about Rumble he's really really really similar to morde tbh -manaless -can farm from range -low cooldown shield -good all in at lvl 3 -good aoe damage for teamfight

i would like to hear thoughts about that opinion, and who else can go bot

24 Comments

Kaìju2 votes

Rek'Sai. Manaless, has long range poke on a longish cooldown but scales with AD, built in sustain, hard to gank, can get fairly tanky while still doing damage.

Ahristocats1 votes

Interesting, noted and will try what i can do with that

Kaìju1 votes

I have won a few games with it in Silver. I generally go Hydra and/or Bork first into four tank for a bruiser build. If you get life steal early you are surprisingly healthy since say you have 10%, you heal for 10% of four autos on minions,go underground and heal.for your passive fury, then surface and do it again. Your all in at level 6 is brutal too, since you have E into the enemy for the knock up engage, auto Q auto, if max fury E for the true damage, and R is am execute. The biggest issue is that you do kinda fall off since you're a bruiser but if you get fed it isn't an issue.

Honorable mention, it's shitty early but Lethal Tempo Warwick. Max rank W generally makes you hit 2.5 attack speed, so if you proc Tempo on a low health enemy, you end up with like 3.5 attack speed which which his healing and on hit damage is as gross as it sounds.

Rester2 votes

If your mechanics are on point you can just run down some kids with Riven. They'll never expect it.

FatedSaviour1 votes

sion, and thats about it, unless ur doing really cheese crap

Ahristocats1 votes

i'm encountering 2 problems with this idea: -mana -will fall off so hard, Mordekaiser or Rumble for instance do not fall off

at least not as hard as sion

FatedSaviour1 votes

if you take dark harvest and duskblade you can do very reliable damage as long as you arent caught out, as well for falling off, he has tons of infinitely scaling hp and also dark harvest scales, plus, if he did fall off, its slower than panth falls off, and mana conservation is very vital and tricky to learn as well

rework trundle1 votes

Aatrox, Irelia, Renek, Trynd

Ahristocats1 votes

aatrox renek and trynd do no damage right now

irelia has nothing to farm from range early on

rework trundle1 votes

Maybe Rengar once he's reworked? He can sustain with W, all in with empowered Q (the empowered Q alone does 130 ish damage lvl 1). The only thing that sucks is you can only farm with E from range, hits 1 target and has a 10 seconds cooldown.

Diana could do fine too but she has mana and I doubt she'll be able to use her passive often. Same for Ekko (and he's really hard to master, I gave up on him after 150k)

Lee Sin but you fall hard so this one is out of the list ... you don't have a lot of options. Pantheon if you can find a Leona main, but he has mana and falls too.

Ahristocats1 votes

lee sin and pantheon are not good choices for the reason you listed

Rengar is actually interesting , and i'm an old rengar main (used to play him around season 4-season 5)

so thanks for that advice i can see him working and will try that in the future

Rester1 votes

I dunno about "Manaless" But you can run Zed down there and farm from a distance, especially under tower with his passive.

Or you can just yolo it and run down there with Kled or Gnar.

Ahristocats1 votes

zed would work fine, but he is the same than yas i would need a long time to play him perfectly in challenger

i don't own kled and gnar tho

Mordepool1 votes

I've wondered why illaio has never been tsken down bot to be honest

Meep Man1 votes

It's because usually her tentacles just get instantly killed as they spawn since a ranged ADC runs much less risk killing them than a melee champion in Top would. Against shorter ranged ADCs maybe, but the enemy can just pick someone like Caitlyn, Kog'Maw, or Tristana and really bully her hard.

Plus she doesn't have many ways to quickly kill a tower, not even having some small AD boost or enhanced AA that will work on the tower.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Mundo Kappa

What about Jayce? Only thing he can't do is shield/heal poke but he has a good all-ins and strong early levels, or do you want real melee champions?

Ahristocats1 votes

i just have a terrible history with jayce whenever i played him i dealt no damage while enemies playing him deal so much damage

i might just be bad at jayce tbh

Malfectious1 votes

Find a good Heimerdinger support and play any top laner you want in bot. His ability to control the lane with turrets changes the way the lane works.

Meep Man1 votes

Well, first, let's look at what the champion has to provide to make use of the advantages a team looks for from the Bottom Lane Carry position, being:

  • Consistent Sustained Damage (hard for melee as that means consistently getting into range to deal damage and staying there and not running out of damage after one rotation or even two unless they have really low cool downs)
  • Objective Control (More or less can kill objectives fast)
  • Can safely farm in lane without relying on resources (will they run out of mana farming?) or sustain through the poke (and lots of poke at that)
  • Optionally, can synergize a TON with a Support present with them (these overall line up with your needs)

So, from my experience, that would be: DrMundo Gangplank Mordekaiser Rumble XinZhao Yasuo

DrMundo can safely farm from a distance using his Q due to it's low cool down and can sustain through most poke that comes his way since he can itemize entirely into defenses early on while still dealing a ton of damage. His sustained damage is actually quite exceptional as long as you can stick to your enemies, which he can pretty well due to the 30% Tenacity given to him by his W, the slow from his Q, and the movement speed granted to him by his R. His objective control is VERY strong with monsters due to his Q, but becomes a little more questionable when it comes to structures although the Demolish rune and his E's bonus AD can help with this issue somewhat. He will still be weaker than an ADC, but his increased durability means he does not share their common weakness against burst damage, which he is notorious for shrugging off. Additionally, his signature item Spirit Visage synergizes heavily with supports like Sona and Soraka. It is a rather extreme choice, but I feel could be surprisingly effective as long as you and your team ban any hard counters, like Vayne, Fiora, and any GW appliers. Note: I would not run him if your team is running a Tank in the Top Lane unless you just have some absolutely insane Jungle DPS champion. That's just far too much potential for someone on the enemy team to pick a % health champion and shred the main advantage that team would have.

Gangplank 's Q allows him to farm extremely quickly from a decent distance and, when combined with the Kleptomancy keystone, also givers him good poke without sacrificing too much farm. FURTHERMORE, his W grants him both the sustain and the reliability to get keep dealing sustained damage that many melee characters would normally suffer from against a ranged match-up. His barrels give him great late game damage and his ultimate allows for great map control, which helps with his main downside in comparison to an ADC, being Objective Control. He is MUCH slower than an ADC in killing Dragon and especially in killing Towers, but his R's map control and his Passive's true damage somewhat help counteract this weakness, although it's still a far cry from an ADC. He doesn't really have any huge Support synergy, but his Q can proc the bonus damage granted by the likes of Sona, Nami, and Janna. Probably the safest choice here to pick in my opinion, as his counters are limited compared to others here.

Mordekaiser I don't feel like this needs explanation, and you said you won't be doing this.

Rumble as you said DOES have potential here, but I feel is a bit of a risky pick as, like GP but to the more extreme, he has NO objective control unless you count using your R on monsters as Objective Control. He can't push towers for crap and he is no better than anyone else at quickly killing an Epic Monster. However, his Q, if in the Danger Zone and if Rumble is allowed to farm items, is outstanding. You can't ignore 473 (+165% AP) magic damage over 3 seconds. His W also gives him some sustain against poke (as well as movement speed to stick, although I wouldn't use it for solely movement speed unless you CAN) and his E helps with farming and sticking to enemies (and the damage is decent too). His R is tricky to use, but works extremely well with other Supports with heavy crowd control, such as Blitzcrank, Leona, Nautilus, and Thresh. Again, his Objective Control is absolute hot garbage when it comes to the speed he kills them, but his other advantages warrant his appearance in this list.

XinZhao is by far the most risky pick of this list as he CAN potentially run OOM in lane if he is bullied a ton since he will be relying a ton on his W for farming if he is getting bullied. He is situational and should NOT be used for a OTP Melee Bot. HOWEVER, he undeniably has the best Objective Control of anyone present on this list and is pretty reliable to stick to someone as long as he can get into his E range. He is a very situational pick, but I would keep him in my back pocket to really abuse a team that won't be able to abuse his weaknesses in this position, which you can probably guess: large amounts of crowd control/peel and early game ADC bullies.

Yasuo Just wanted to remind you that he is 100% an option, although if you don't wish to use him, don't.

I do not include Elise Gnar Jayce Kayle as they kind of cheat and aren't full melee, but they can probably be run in Bot.

Champions that are are traps to consider bringing Bottom Lane in my opinion are:

Darius Unless your friend is a Zilean OTP and you only run Duo Queue, I really wouldn't recommend doing this as he just gets bullied SO HARD by a large cast of the ADC roster. He also has VERY little killing power on Dragon and Towers, so running him slows how much reward you can get after a won team fight by a lot. You might have a few good games, but the large amount will likely end poorly.

Fiora Fiora's main strength is her ability to abuse someone in lane that she can easily dash around, and also in a DUEL where outside interference is limited. You might see her W as a strong potential answer to poke, but it's CD is too long for the constant poke of Bottom Lane and they will eventually learn to just not use CC during your W since most CC in Bottom Lane is from a range, both removing the pressure of needing to CC Fiora since she is right on top of you (like in Top) and ALSO making it less likely to hit them with the Parry since they are further away and have more time to dodge it.

Irelia Most of Irelia's damage is single target and her ability to farm safely is nonexistent. See Kled and Pantheon. She just doesn't work, trust me.

Jax This MIGHT be able to work, but his lack of ability to safely farm from a range makes me doubt this. Jax is likely better just farming up Top where someone isn't constantly basic attacking him from far away. And yes, I know his E stops it, but like Fiora, it just isn't up enough early game for it to justify him being here.

Kled Simply not enough consistent farm to put him here. If you're only plan is to kill the enemy, maybe, but otherwise just don't. Not to mention, unlike in Top Lane, when Kled gets knocked off Skarl, you are basically forced to go back to base as the enemy isn't going to be letting you basic attack them or be in range to hit a ton of Q shots.

Pantheon See Kled. Only goal is to kill? Sure. However, he suffers in every single other department that you would bring an ADC into Bottom Lane for. He will eventually run OOM if he uses Q to farm, so that's not an option.

MasterYi Will get poked out of lane and relies too much on quickly getting to Level 6 to put him into a shared XP lane.

Nasus HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! Funny joke there. His Wither may cripple an ADC late game, but good luck getting many stacks at all, which is one of the main reasons you play this guy. Also, his W doesn't really just destroy an ADC early game unless you max it which... good luck trying W max first as Nasus. Hey, maybe if the enemy is doing the same thing and it's two Melee Bots, maybe try this! Otherwise, no, I really wouldn't recommend it. You can try a weird AP Nasus, but at that point why aren't you just trying a Mage Bottom Lane instead.

Some champions I'm not sure on, so I'm not going in detail on them but recommend investigating: Camille Riven Katarina Aatrox Tryndamere

Ahristocats1 votes

GP unlike other champions is specially gated level wise, he needs lvl 13 for his barrels to tick down fast

mundo doesn't have a carry level of damage, seriously if you want to bring a champion but you better be sure that the champion can 1v9 a teamfight

Morde can Rumble can (just tried him bot lane last game in challenger and solocarried a teamfight) Mundo... his damage is really low unless he's super fed

as for Xin i totally agree, i saw qtpie playing him bot

Jamenawerl1 votes

Camille Camille. Simply Camille. Stupidly overloaded kit has everything ur looking for.

Gangplank GP has oranges. A lot of em. He also has range, waveclear, poke, etc. and scales greatly into lategame.

Akali Akali runs on energy, her Q is ranged and spammable, her E can waveclear, she has passive sustain, good all in at lvl 6 and shroud.

Riven Riven is infamous for her poke playstyle and her shield. She needs no resources and she also has good all-in, waveclear and her ccs are AoE.

Kayle Kayle is a less mana-reliant version of Azir and she has sustain, but her early game damage isnt as good.

Galio Maokai Ekko Galio, Maokai and Ekko have mana but they also have retarded waveclear and decent all-in potential.

Nasus Nasus has Quasus build which covers most of his early game weaknesses giving him decent sustain, waveclear and poke. Wither counters ADCs.

XinZhao XinZhao doesnt really have range besides his 12 second cd W but he has sustain, good all-in and his R counters range.

Katarina Katarina has spammable Q, good waveclear and all-in. Really squishy and no sustain, so it comes down to if you can survive early game just pushing.

Khazix Khazix used to bullshit everyone rushing tear and spamming W for waveclear, poke and sustain. That playstyle was nerfed a long time ago but its still worth a try.

Chogath Chogath has waveclear, sustain, single target nuke, and all his cc is long duration AoE. Sounds good on paper but you will have to invest a little bit of gold in mana sustain and ap for waveclear tho.

Fiora Fiora has medium range in Q, can cockblock a lot of shit with W and she has decent all-in. She also has a mini-wither. Short range comparatively, no sustain if you dont trade and no waveclear without tiamat.

DrMundo Mundo can sustain through some poke and farm from a distance with Q, but at the end of the day you are probably gonna be forced to play inside ur tower and we both know how this story ends.

Blitzcrank Blitzcrank deals good damage with an appropiate build and his hook can persuade the enemies from poking you, but thats it honestly. He isnt that great.

You should also try mages.

Already mentioned champs, just to make a complete list: You already have Morde, Rumble and Rengar. Darius, Aatrox, Trynda and Renek may be viable choices in the future. Yasuo, Jayce and Zed skillcap 3 high 5 u. You dont own Kled nor Gnar. Someone said Reksai but I cant really recommend her, she gets outclassed so hard in sololane I doubt she will be viable bot.

Ahristocats1 votes

Gangplank GP has oranges. A lot of em. He also has range, waveclear, poke, etc. and scales greatly into lategame.

GP is too gated to go bot because he can't function without level 13 and it will take a long time to get lvl 13 bot

Camille is too hard to play just like yasuo

Akali Akali runs on energy, her Q is ranged and spammable, her E can waveclear, she has passive sustain, good all in at lvl 6 and shroud.

level 6 all in will take too much time, by that time laning phase is already decided (if you're down 30 cs it won't do it)

and akali Q is too unreliable to cs from range due to the projectile speed

Kayle Kayle is a less mana-reliant version of Azir and she has sustain, but her early game damage isnt as good.

agreed and to be fair before the cd nerf i would have taken her bot but since the E cd nerf idk if she's good bot

Galio Maokai Ekko Galio, Maokai and Ekko have mana but they also have retarded waveclear and decent all-in potential.

not good in late game

Nasus Nasus has Quasus build which covers most of his early game weaknesses giving him decent sustain, waveclear and poke. Wither counters ADCs.

not good in late game (quas build)

XinZhao XinZhao doesnt really have range besides his 12 second cd W but he has sustain, good all-in and his R counters range.

xin can totally work, i saw qtpie playing it

Khazix Khazix used to bullshit everyone rushing tear and spamming W for waveclear, poke and sustain. That playstyle was nerfed a long time ago but its still worth a try.

not really, it doesn't work in solo lane why would it work in bot lane

Chogath Chogath has waveclear, sustain, single target nuke, and all his cc is long duration AoE. Sounds good on paper but you will have to invest a little bit of gold in mana sustain and ap for waveclear tho.

not good in late game by that i mean that it doesn't offer a carry lvl of damage

DrMundo Mundo can sustain through some poke and farm from a distance with Q, but at the end of the day you are probably gonna be forced to play inside ur tower and we both know how this story ends.

Blitzcrank Blitzcrank deals good damage with an appropiate build and his hook can persuade the enemies from poking you, but thats it honestly. He isnt that great.

late game bro late game

Yasuo, Jayce and Zed skillcap 3 high 5 u.

add camille kata riven to that list

.

Someone said Reksai but I cant really recommend her, she gets outclassed so hard in sololane I doubt she will be viable bot.

i see thank you for your opinion, i never played reksai (like few times at release only) so i don't have any idea of how she can do

Jamenawerl1 votes

Ekko isnt necessarily bad late game as long as you can get a good W or a good R.

Kayle changes increased E cd by 1 or 2 seconds before level 5, but now she can have perma-E post-5 with 10% less cdr. She can probably still work.

Glad I could help you, its cool to see someone trying to play offmeta in challenjour.

Scary Door1 votes

Irelia.

I played Irelia bot lane a bit last season for shiggles. Let them push you under tower, it's easy to farm under turret with Irelia, then when the jungle engages it's two free kills and then at level 6 and beyond it's an easy game. NOTE: This is far more tilting to play into a Vayne that actually knows what they're doing, otherwise not bad. I was lucky enough to play into a Trist or Twitch each time and so it was simple stuff.

My lane got wrecked and I mean absolutely destroyed by a Riven once. I was Brand support, we got the first kill on their support and then we were summarily owned thereafter.

In general, melee bot lane doesn't work, but there are a few instances where the skill difference is high enough to where it can be pretty overpowering.

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