The second they remove obscured, akali would actually be tolerable.

Succubús GF·Nov 4, 2018·104 votes·19,443 views

Shits fucking dumb. Ungankable. She gets a free lane phase and if she somehow wins lane phase she snowballs off her ass. But no better nerf eve 12 more times. gud balance

125 Comments

Need Gold 4 TentNov 4, 201830 votes

Yes. Her laning is too safe for how hard she scales. Her W and mobility ensures she can't be ganked, can't out trade her because she just presses W, can't force an engage on her because she has W, and she also has the option to stay back and farm with Q. ON TOP OF BEING MANALESS.

LakegaNov 4, 201810 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-04T04:16:33.618+0000)

Yes. Her laning is too safe for how hard she scales. Her W and mobility ensures she can't be ganked, can't out trade her because she just presses W, can't force an engage on her because she has W, and she also has the option to stay back and farm with Q. ON TOP OF BEING MANALESS.

Meanwhile Zed, Yasuo, Ekko, etc. etc. etc. etc.... All of which are super safe, and easy to get out of ganks with, snow ball super hard, and once fed are impossible to kill..

ParoeNov 4, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile Zed, Yasuo, Ekko, etc. etc. etc. etc.... All of which are super safe, and easy to get out of ganks with, snow ball super hard, and once fed are impossible to kill..

At least Akali's "oh shit" button has counterplay, unlike most other assassins. But i think thats because Akali is much more a "diver" archetype than a true assassin, like rengar.

Happy Love PileNov 4, 20185 votes

Who's "oh shit" button doesn't have as much counterplay? Talon can be cc'd out of his e, his R is either his damage or his escape, eve's ulti has a telegraphed location - so does ekko's, Yasuo needs a target, along with Katarina. The only ones I can think of with a truly uncounterable escape is Kassadin, but that's because he's not only a hyper carry but the mana cost can get up to 800 mana. The other is LB, but that's not impossible, just hard to actually punish unless it's more than one person if she does WRQE then back to W.

ParoeNov 4, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Love Pile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T11:08:07.410+0000)

Who's "oh shit" button doesn't have as much counterplay? Talon can be cc'd out of his e, his R is either his damage or his escape, eve's ulti has a telegraphed location - so does ekko's, Yasuo needs a target, along with Katarina. The only ones I can think of with a truly uncounterable escape is Kassadin, but that's because he's not only a hyper carry but the mana cost can get up to 800 mana. The other is LB, but that's not impossible, just hard to actually punish unless it's more than one person if she does WRQE then back to W.

Zed has an uninterruptible 1200+ range mobility. Two of them if he uses his ult. Talon has his ult which gives him invisibility and his parkour which allows him to run away from almost any situation. Leblanc has her W, which functions like Zeds W on a low cooldown. Ekko has his ult which heals him and gets him away from most situations. Counter play is something YOU can do and not a mistake THEY make. Oh shit buttons with no counterplay are ones where theres literally nothing you can do unless they screw up.

Akali? Throw AoEs into the shroud where you think she is or just back off when she drops it, because she usually drops it when shes losing the trade. Its baffling how people dont back off when she drops the shroud, then complain that shes busted because she Q ---> Passive ---> Shroud ---> Q ---> Passive ---> Ult/repeat Q into passive with "no counter play". Remember when people whined about how Illaoi was busted because her ult did such massive damage? And they refused the obvious counterplay of running away?

Happy Love PileNov 4, 20182 votes

Talon's Ult gives him invis, but that's his ULTIMATE, it's supposed to be powerful. If he uses it to escape, then he can't use it to kill or teamfight.
Ekko's ult, once again, is visible where he can ulti back to at anytime, as long as he's visible. You can also take Grevious wounds to reduce his healing from his ult, and kill him once he time winds. And, like Talon, Ekko's r is a huge part of his dmg and teamfighting ability. With Zed's shadows, they don't move. He can be difficult to deal with in solo queue, but that's because of the lack of coordination dealing with his Ulti + W mobility.
However, Leblanc's W is extremely hard to deal with, because unlike Zed using his W then R to gap close, she doesn't have to sacrifice damage for it.
Akali's shroud isn't exactly busted, it's just frusterating to deal with in lane, because while she's in it, she can completely zone you off of minions, but that does leave her open to ganks. The biggest issue with it is just how it can deaggro turrets and being untargetable inside of it

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Zed has an uninterruptible 1200+ range mobility. Two of them if he uses his ult. Talon has his ult which gives him invisibility and his parkour which allows him to run away from almost any situation. Leblanc has her W, which functions like Zeds W on a low cooldown. Ekko has his ult which heals him and gets him away from most situations. Counter play is something YOU can do and not a mistake THEY make. Oh shit buttons with no counterplay are ones where theres literally nothing you can do unless they screw up.

Akali? Throw AoEs into the shroud where you think she is or just back off when she drops it, because she usually drops it when shes losing the trade. Its baffling how people dont back off when she drops the shroud, then complain that shes busted because she Q ---> Passive ---> Shroud ---> Q ---> Passive ---> Ult/repeat Q into passive with "no counter play". Remember when people whined about how Illaoi was busted because her ult did such massive damage? And they refused the obvious counterplay of running away?

Simply don't fight Akali in her shroud, like you don't fight Illaoi in R, or Kog with his W, or Trundle with his ice field thing

Need Gold 4 TentNov 4, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile Zed, Yasuo, Ekko, etc. etc. etc. etc.... All of which are super safe, and easy to get out of ganks with, snow ball super hard, and once fed are impossible to kill..

And note that all of them are also problem champions.

phúc off my laneNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile Zed, Yasuo, Ekko, etc. etc. etc. etc.... All of which are super safe, and easy to get out of ganks with, snow ball super hard, and once fed are impossible to kill..

zed and ekko, safe, okay. but are you calling yasuo safe? his q range is no where near comparable to zed's q and ekko's q range for safely farming

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-04T04:16:33.618+0000)

Yes. Her laning is too safe for how hard she scales. Her W and mobility ensures she can't be ganked, can't out trade her because she just presses W, can't force an engage on her because she has W, and she also has the option to stay back and farm with Q. ON TOP OF BEING MANALESS.

You've never played her, have you. Akali doesn't scale that well. Sure she does damage, but that's kinda it. She's not good late game at all.

And being manaless doesn't help her as much except for regen considering her Q EATS her energy, so farming with Q isn't that great unless she blows W for energy refund. She can't farm that wellunder tower either.

As for her gankabilty, I agree, however, not much has changed in that regard from old Akali since the shroud is pretty much the same EXCEPT IT NO LONGER SLOWS, but she now has pre 6 mobility

Need Gold 4 TentNov 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=KDA AkaIí,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-11-04T12:09:46.711+0000)

You've never played her, have you. Akali doesn't scale that well. Sure she does damage, but that's kinda it. She's not good late game at all.

And being manaless doesn't help her as much except for regen considering her Q EATS her energy, so farming with Q isn't that great unless she blows W for energy refund. She can't farm that wellunder tower either.

As for her gankabilty, I agree, however, not much has changed in that regard from old Akali since the shroud is pretty much the same EXCEPT IT NO LONGER SLOWS, but she now has pre 6 mobility

She never had escape mobility back then, at least not a very reliable one even post 6. Now she has the same W the old Akali had, on top of her new slipperiness. You could gank old Akali even post 6. You can't with the new one, especially post 6 when she has 3 dashes to get out of trouble.

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-11-04T15:44:44.870+0000)

She never had escape mobility back then, at least not a very reliable one even post 6. Now she has the same W the old Akali had, on top of her new slipperiness. You could gank old Akali even post 6. You can't with the new one, especially post 6 when she has 3 dashes to get out of trouble.

She had a blink on Shroud and targeted mobility post 6, basically the same kinda mobility Irelia has that it was to minions if trying to escape. People really slept on the shroud blink. Especially since it lasted much longer than current and was on a lower net cooldown

Leto GTNov 4, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-04T04:16:33.618+0000)

Yes. Her laning is too safe for how hard she scales. Her W and mobility ensures she can't be ganked, can't out trade her because she just presses W, can't force an engage on her because she has W, and she also has the option to stay back and farm with Q. ON TOP OF BEING MANALESS.

You forget the sustain too.

5050BSNov 4, 20187 votes

She is too safe. Classic CT shit

ParoeNov 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

She is too safe. Classic CT shit

Debatable. Look at Akali from the perspective of a Diver, shes actually in line with many other divers as far as power budget is concerned.

I think a lot of the problem with Akali is that her damage is very much so front loaded into her passive, while her E and R are basically for mobility and situational executes. Theres definitely more skill required than the previous version - This iteration of Akali is much better in both general game health and skill expression for sure.

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Debatable. Look at Akali from the perspective of a Diver, shes actually in line with many other divers as far as power budget is concerned.

I think a lot of the problem with Akali is that her damage is very much so front loaded into her passive, while her E and R are basically for mobility and situational executes. Theres definitely more skill required than the previous version - This iteration of Akali is much better in both general game health and skill expression for sure.

Referring to Akali's passive, wouldn't it be considered more backloaded than front? Since the passive dancing does add a bit of a delay?

ParoeNov 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=KDA AkaIí,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T12:12:07.479+0000)

Referring to Akali's passive, wouldn't it be considered more backloaded than front? Since the passive dancing does add a bit of a delay?

Front loaded because the damage is mostly in her passive. Akali was designed around item 3100 ; its why her passive basically a lich bane proc itself.

[{quoted}](name=KDA AkaIí,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-04T12:13:40.176+0000)

Simply don't fight Akali in her shroud, like you don't fight Illaoi in R, or Kog with his W, or Trundle with his ice field thing

Indeed. Dont fight zone based champions in their zone, as long as you have a choice anyway.

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Front loaded because the damage is mostly in her passive. Akali was designed around ; its why her passive basically a lich bane proc itself.

Indeed. Dont fight zone based champions in their zone, as long as you have a choice anyway.

Lich bane Akali feels so good but...I rarely ever get a chance to build it because most AP builds are so fucking static that you gotta go the same thing every time unless you're fed off your ass to the point of being allowed to do whatever you want.

SeleenaNov 4, 20185 votes

Akali has stupid stealth when she uses w but I play eve who is permanently stealthed. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

NyarlathοtepNov 4, 201815 votes

???? Excuse me? Akali is true invisibility. She cant be targeted and if she gets revealed you can only see her location. Evelyn's is camouflage. And her detection range is 650. The range of cait's aa.

Pika FoxNov 5, 20185 votes

Akali is under 50% w/r, shes perfectly fine.

Her shroud is powerful because she physically needs it. Remove the shroud, then she needs better access to her burst. Meaning her minigame of running away then back in for her auto burst and the delay between R1 and R2 gets removed.

Linna ExcelNov 5, 20183 votes

I kind of agree. I think CertainlyT did a good job at trying to modernize her and keep her as close to her original playstyle as possible. However as a melee assassin, she needs tools to do her job and one of those tools is the shroud.

I think the problem here is modern design philosophy in LOL.

ParoeNov 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Shits fucking dumb. Ungankable. She gets a free lane phase and if she somehow wins lane phase she snowballs off her ass. But no better nerf eve 12 more times. gud balance

But... She rarely uses it under tower to begin with. If anything, it should be changed so that the turret gives her ONE shot when she appears out of the cloud while under tower.

chipndip1Nov 4, 201837 votes

...that already happens.

ParoeNov 4, 201817 votes

{quoted}

...that already happens.

Not to my knowledge it doesnt, since it takes a second for the turret to target (its actually like 0.75 seconds i think?) and Akali fades in 0.65 seconds.

chipndip1Nov 4, 20181 votes

If she does it incorrectly, it still happens. Who's go the time to time that perfectly, repeatedly, while the prey's retreating?

Z3SleeperNov 4, 201815 votes

Any skilled Akali player.

ParoeNov 4, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Any skilled Akali player.

Any patient player who doesnt tunnel, actually. Thats high silver/low gold and above, usually.

Considering the shroud lasts as long as it does when you weave in and out, its pretty simple.

chipndip1Nov 4, 20181 votes

You guys are really something, you know that?

ParoeNov 4, 201812 votes

{quoted}

You guys are really something, you know that?

Do you even understand what youre arguing anymore?

chipndip1Nov 4, 20183 votes

You said a Silver/Gold player can pilot Akali to any level of actual competency. That in and of itself is a joke. She's been out for MONTHS and her low elo win rates still remain at the bottom of the barrel, even given her ban rate. If more people got to play her, it'd probably be even worse. Still, SOMEHOW, "low elo players like Silvers and Golds can probably complete a tower dive without taking a single turret shot while getting the kill."

There's clear evidence of the stark contrary. You guys are just...Idk, man. Your feelings take over what you're actually witnessing and it's just so hard to argue with. But if someone doesn't spell it out. you guys get offended cause you can't put 2 and 2 together, either.

ParoeNov 4, 20187 votes

{quoted}

You said a Silver/Gold player can pilot Akali to any level of actual competency. That in and of itself is a joke. She's been out for MONTHS and her low elo win rates still remain at the bottom of the barrel, even given her ban rate. If more people got to play her, it'd probably be even worse. Still, SOMEHOW, "low elo players like Silvers and Golds can probably complete a tower dive without taking a single turret shot while getting the kill."

There's clear evidence of the stark contrary. You guys are just...Idk, man. Your feelings take over what you're actually witnessing and it's just so hard to argue with. But if someone doesn't spell it out. you guys get offended cause you can't put 2 and 2 together, either.

Lets refocus then. Ignoring kill potential, just mechanics here (because i firmly believe that its rare for an Akali of any skill to solo dive under tower using her shroud). Akali weaves in after 0.65 seconds when she breaks stealth - with an ability or otherwise. It takes something like 0.75 seconds for a tower to target. This means that Akali can Q from the shroud under tower, cloak, maneuver to proc her passive, cloak, etc all without taking a tower shot. My concession to the "NERF THE SHROUD" crowd is that Akali, after breaking stealth under tower, should take one guaranteed tower shot instead of just ignoring it because towers target then shoot.

As i understand it, your argument is that most Akali's will take that one tower shot regardless because they dont weave properly.

ZephyrDrakeNov 4, 20183 votes

and yet she doesn't even have a 50% winrate

Happy Love PileNov 4, 20189 votes

Yeah, she has a sub 50% winrate because she's still high skill cap. There's a difference between balanced and frusterating. Akali could have room to be buffed in other areas if her shroud wasn't absolutely infuriating to face.

Succubús GFNov 4, 20185 votes

And yet she has the highest ban rate.

Try again?

ZephyrDrakeNov 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

And yet she has the highest ban rate.

Try again?

why do I care about her ban rate? that only tells me that if people stopped banning her she would have an even worst winrate. Please try again yourself. A champion who has one of the worst winrates at low elo and a terrible winrates at all elos should tell you something. Her pickrate isn't even that high either. Yasuo has double her pick rate a very similar ban rate and still manages to have a higher winrate than her. You can hate on akali all you want, that doesn't make her good at all. She is a champion that people don't want to learn how to play against

Succubús GFNov 4, 20183 votes

why do I care about her ban rate? that only tells me that if people stopped banning her she would have an even worst winrate.

That's just wrong.

I didn't say AKALI SO OP RIOT WTF Sorry you can't distinguish critique and champion balance. Champions should have counterplay and obscured takes that away

it's worse btw* You're just wrong

GelsominoKillerNov 4, 20183 votes

Actually a long time ago, when Kassadin stationed at ~90% banrate for YEARS, he had a sub 50% winrate because, despite Kassawin being simply disgustingly overtuned, people felt forced to pick him when he was open, even if they had no experience nor practice on the champion.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 4, 20182 votes

Yeah cuz she has 80% banrate across all elos since release. Noone gets to actually play her properly.

JustARivenMainNov 4, 20183 votes

Old Akali had true invis on her W aswell, the only difference between old Shroud and New Shroud is tower can't see it now.

Cptn Han SoloQNov 4, 20188 votes

Before entering a conversation u should check what the words u use mean. Her old stealth wasn't true. True stealth works even against towers, that is why it is true stealth. The reason it is unfair is because a lot of older champions can not trade with akali and when u fall back to ur turret u are basicly punished for not inting in to her. That is bad design wise. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

jreezyNov 4, 20183 votes

tbh she has one of the lowest pick rates right now and i also think she is not in a overpowered state even though she can be frustrating at times and just because u don't understand her kit doesn't mean she is intolerable

[zombie-brand-clap]

Succubús GFNov 4, 20186 votes

Idk why people keep using that. her pickrate is low BECAUSE she has the highest ban rate LOL

agac4234Nov 5, 20183 votes

the second akali loses her obscured she will be shit and u know it. the only reason akali is even good right now it becuase she has her obscured. she doesnt do much dmg early if u dont get hit by her passive 4 times in a row. if u want to gank her u need to bait her W. she isnt that great in team fights if she doesnt have obscured becuase she will just get 1 shot by adc and she isnt like a zed she cant just W W R Q E and kill some one and still get away. she isnt like kata she cant just Q E W kill(kata isnt that easy but she can still escape with her E) she isnt like talon she cant just Q W R and kill and get away with her E, she has gap closers but they rae on long cooldowns like her E and her R. her W is a way to stay alive in team fights u take that away and she will be worse then the old akali.

ProfirixNov 5, 20181 votes

Dude, her obscure has a very low cooldown for such a powerful ability. To put it into perspective, Tahm Kench eats an ally and has a 28 second cooldown. Her shroud is a 17 second CD AT LEVEL 1 and gets a full duration of 8 seconds out of it if she uses it properly.

demoted to ironNov 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wA7Zhjjx,comment-id=00190001,timestamp=2018-11-05T20:57:55.404+0000)

Dude, her obscure has a very low cooldown for such a powerful ability. To put it into perspective, Tahm Kench eats an ally and has a 28 second cooldown. Her shroud is a 17 second CD AT LEVEL 1 and gets a full duration of 8 seconds out of it if she uses it properly.

downtime on shroud without CDR and getting the full 3 seconds extra duration from rank 1-5: 9/7/5/3/1 second(s)

just so ya see it

ModWulf HelhammerNov 6, 20181 votes

Cooldown doesn't start until she uses up the entire base duration. Which means if she gets the full 3 second extension (which takes leaving and reentering the shroud 6 times), the cooldown is: 14/12.5/11/9.5/8 seconds.

People need to stop spreading misinformation.

BisaknospNov 4, 20182 votes

katarina is more cancer imo wish she would be more popular so people would see how bullshit she actually is

Somebody Love MeNov 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

katarina is more cancer imo wish she would be more popular so people would see how bullshit she actually is

Katarina is garbage lmfao

SuplextationNov 5, 20182 votes

Ok as an akali main i actually do hope they do something with her W, its way too broken. I like playing champs that has mobility and can assassinate, but shroud is kinda dumb