I am so tired of seeing lee sin in EVERY game i play

Succubús GF··160 votes·6,174 views

Out of my recent 4 games in ranked, 3 had lee sin in them, the other lee was banned. I really wish lee sin would get "nidalee'd" just thrown out of meta for a while, BUT NO. He cant be because of riots precious little favoritism game. He has literally had the number 1 pick rate for junglers for pretty mcuh all of this season and a lot of season 6 and even before then. His kit, is toxic. There is nothing fun nor interactive about ward hopping behind someone under turret and ulting them out of turret. Like ??? Where is the counterplay to a point and click displacement that sends you flying into 1-3 people all at once. NEWSFLASH there is none. I literally dont understand why he even gets to be so safe. Lb is too frequently abused? Gut her. Kat? Take out ward hops and force her to only be able to get shunpo resets late. Nidalee is really strong? Ruin her, make her not a great pick anymore. Lee is also god tier? Hmm, maybe nerf some of his damage but nothing that would substantially make him even slightly horrible. God forbid they even touch lee sin without giving him his 8th damn skin. Meanwhile cass hasent gotten a skin since s5 but whatever riot. Did i mention how long its been since urgot has seen a skin or even a balance tweak? But you know maybe we can compensate by throwing THAT under the rug and you know making lee sin freelo as hell :^). Never mind how absolutely brain dead he is. I mean at least nidalee had to land a spear to actually do anything. Lee can just walk up to you and hit r and the chances of him missing q are so damn slim unless someone walks in front of it or if the player actually goes, into a coma. He also gets a free shield! Oh you ignited him or an ally and theyre about to die from the last tick. How about no ? Because on top of damage he should get a shield so he doesnt ever have to die unless he is plastic 10

/endrant Commence the downvotes and the "git gud" comments

137 Comments

Mouth Stuff35 votes

Lee is riots poster boy, having been in the meta pretty much since season 2 and I doubt they are changing that anytime soon

AMYS GRAVE28 votes

With his new skin lee is literally riots golden boy.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

They've actually officially said they have no intention on removing him from meta. Ever.

Maddened King 2 votes

They shouldn't. He is a highlight reel champion for their competitive scene and he is very easy to balance and one of their best-designed champions. He is probably also their benchmark for junglers.

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

Not to mention their money maker for Skins

Niyumi12 votes

Riot knows Lee is broken. They openly admitted it a while ago on the forums, and also said they will never significantly nerf him because he makes money at LC$ -- of course, that post was deleted, and I'm sure that guy was fired.

ShaolinToilet15 votes

No one ever said that. You're exaggerating way too much. You probably didn't actually read what he said

Keevalroy7 votes

For Lee Sin, he is just overpowered, so we're bumping him down slightly next patch - junglers are performing very well at the moment and he is the best jungler. (He adds a lot to competitive play though, so we don't want to hit him too hard). - Fizz Enthusiast.

He's paraphrasing, but....yeah...

ShaolinToilet2 votes

Nice job taking it completely out of context

Keevalroy9 votes

So from "no one ever said that" to "you took this out of context." Hmm, how about you get off of Riot's dick and follow the link Lank put up so you can see the big picture here...or is all of this fake news since it paints the benevolent leaders in a bad light?

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

The part of the comment you didnt post:

Lee is different in that he can be playable in competitive while being fair in normal. Whereas for Amumu and Sej, usually if they're playable in competitive they will probably be unfair in normal play (probably 55+% winrate). We also have some jungle changes that may be going in in the future that disproportionately hurt Lee Sin compared to other junglers. Also I believe that when Lee sin is balanced (but still playable in competitive) he doesn't disproportionately harm jungle diversity in competitive.

The context was to balance Lee to be both playable in competitive and solo queue, because he is one of the few champions that is so multi-dimensional and has such a high skillcap that it can actually be achieved. I think you would agree that some champions just cant be balanced for competitive in their current state, since they would require significant buffs that would destroy soloqueue (Garen, Amumu, Annie, Blitz come to mind).

Nowhere does that say "broken" or because of LC$. In fact, I would guess that buffing some champions would be GREAT for LCS - how loud do you think the crowd would go if Blitz ever became a competitive pick? And plus, I dont know about you, but I find the competitive meta to be pretty stagnant and could use a reshuffling. But we really dont need Blitz buffs for soloqueue just to get him competitively viable.

HeeroTX2 votes

{quoted}

Nowhere does that say "broken" or because of LC$.

How about this:

Just so we are super, super clear: we agree that Lee Sin is too powerful right now and we ARE nerfing him.

Our 7.1 direct nerfs aren't likely to make him completely fair for regular play on their own. He benefited a lot from jungle changes and we think there's more work to be done on the jungle itself - we have changes in the pipe for either 7.1 or 7.2 (purely a matter of timelines, if we can have it ready for 7.1 it will go in 7.1). We will be following up on Lee, the jungle, or both as needed.

However we end up doing it, we will be balancing Lee for regular play. If that moves him completely out of competitive, then so be it - but as Fizz Enthusiast has said a few times, we believe that a Lee Sin who has been correctly balanced for normal play is likely to show up fairly often in pro play. (Riot Axes)

They SAY "if that moves him sompletely out of competitive, then so be it" but the "nerfs" are below https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ac9AE1sX-if-you-dont-want-to-touch-lee-cause-hes-cometitive-why-you-dont-buff-underperforming-junglers?comment=000a

Lee is only 50% p/b because his current state is untenable and we acknowledged that. No one said Lee sin was in a balanced state anywhere.

Both comments are from a complaint thread about Lee and the continuous response is "we have nerfs coming. Those nerfs:

  • Reduction of vision provided by E
  • 50/-100/-150 AD to ult

Those are the ONLY nerfs Lee has gotten since the above discussion. The vision drop shouldn't even qualify since I don't think ANYONE complaining about Lee cites the vision provided by his E as a problem. And if the problem is his early game snowballing (since Lee "drops off late"), then nerfing him by making those changes to his ult is a joke.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

Youre reading between the lines. I'm not saying youre wrong, but this is the quote we are all responding to:

{quoted}

Riot knows Lee is broken. They openly admitted it a while ago on the forums, and also said they will never significantly nerf him because he makes money at LC$ -- of course, that post was deleted, and I'm sure that guy was fired.

Neither of those two things happened. They never admitted he was broken and they never said they wont significantly nerf him.

HeeroTX1 votes

They pretty clearly admitted he was broken. I'll grant that they've never ADMITTED that they don't nerf him because of LCS and in fact "said" otherwise. Actions tend to favor the side saying they favor Lee, but I'll take other comments from the thread I noted at face value that Lee scales well from low to high elo. (ie. he's about AS effective at low elo as he as at high elo, rather than being busted in one and not the other) But I understand the complaint that he's too dominant/omni-present regardless.

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Riot: Lee Sin is overpowered, so we are nerfing him, However, we don't want to dumpster him, since the other junglers are doing well. Plus he's makes LCS games better.

That is paraphrasing. What was said above, is not.

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

I have NEVER seen a Red post have that many downvotes before, jesus christ.

Doesn't surprise me that Fizz Enthusiast doesn't post anymore, not that I'd want them too.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo11 votes

i cant think of the last time i seen him. i see way more Warwick or elise of late , but then again thats me

oSEXYPLATYPUSo26 votes

down voted for stating that i dont see alot of lee sin ?

AMYS GRAVE12 votes

... and upvoted for your confusion?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

how am I confused? I stated that I don't see him that often in my games to cry over him.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

poor word choice on my part, i just found the difference in votes on your two comments mildly amusing.

Melledoneus1 votes

Maybe because he's banned? Lol

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well i dont ban him... and i state this in an earlier comment on this thread with reason why... but just for you ill copy n paste it for you

well that is one way to look at it... another way is there really arent that many good lee players... so chances are they are more likely to do bad on him then good... so i rather leave him open and ban a champ that dont have as much mechanical skill or error that can wreck havoc on the game. alot of people do real bad vs champs like eve , rengar, warwick and so on . just my opinon

Melledoneus3 votes

You don't have to particularly master Lee to do well with him. He takes skill, yes, but as long as you have the combos down you can do well because he's naturally very strong.

Also, Rengar is garbage right now. Eve is somewhat of a joke except by those terrifying Eve mains, and Warwick can be counterplayed easily.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

eve is a joke with a 9.17% pick rate and a 51.33% win rate ?

Melledoneus3 votes

Somewhat of a joke. Because you see her picked, and you know for a fact she is either going to fail hard to steamroll the enemy team.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well lee's win rate is lower then hers, at 50.62% and there are alot of junglers who have win rates as good as lee or higher. he isnt freeelo as some wanna complain about. at a 50% win rate its a coin toss meaning he isnt all that to be scared of.

Melledoneus5 votes

Lee also has a 40% pick rate, so...

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i understand that... but that just means more people who dont know how to play him or arent skilled enough to play him playing him. hence my original statement about letting him go through with the odds in your favor of them being bad on him over him being a god.

Melledoneus4 votes

Well, a lot of people jump on the Lee bandwagon, bringing down his win rate. I've seen people with up to 80% win rates on Lee, which is just flat-out insane.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but with how many games played?

Melledoneus6 votes

It ranged from 40-80.

One guy I've seen has a whopping 91.4% win rate on him with about 200+ games. I legit think he's cheating lol

Raiyza7 votes

Well...

LeeSin certainly wouldn't see you in those games!

...I'll leave.

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

To be fair, Lee has lost large parts of the kit, over the years.

Waffletimewarp21 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, Lee has lost large parts of the kit, over the years.

What parts? The last change I remember that wasn't a numbers love tap was giving him percent health damage on his ult when he started getting pushed out of favor during the jungle tank meta when Cinderhilt was added.

TheHappyReaperz12 votes

Safeguard lost energy return, if the shield was broken, Iron Will lost armor, as well as lost sustain stats and duration, Cripple lost its AS slow, and Tempest no longer reveals invisible targets, and only reveals targets damaged by it.

EndlessSorcerer12 votes

Yet he remains a top-tier jungler after all of the nerfs.

Who is Taliyah7 votes

I remember back in season 3 I think they changed his W so it does not longer shield minions.

I hate lee so much. Definitely one of the top 3 champion I hate.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Who are the other two?

Who is Taliyah1 votes

Right now it is Ahri, fizz and lee sin. Once they nerf gunblade, I won't have to ban ahri anymore.

Unpaladin19 votes

That's crazy. To think he's still got more of everything in his kit than most champions.

Faceroll Tactics2 votes

Every champion. He has three mechanics missing from his kit: invulnerability, invisibility, and max health % damage. If he had that he would have every mainstream mechanic in the game.

Ulquiorra9952 votes

He has missing health % on his Q tho. And his R kinda has max health % too - and stronger than regular max health % if used properly since you are dealing tank's HP% to a squish instead of squishy's HP% to a squishy.

SkZ DoPe7 votes

ye his ult dmg got reduced from "submarine torpedo" to "get hit by a train", fuck this champion

Thilmer2 votes

{quoted}

ye his ult dmg got reduced from "submarine torpedo" to "get hit by a train", fuck this champion

It's awesome that Lee can delete someone with R+Q+Q... while building 3 tank ítems.

Soooo interactive and balanced.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

pro tip....

pick skarner and out duel him at every stage of the game regardless of build.

macromite9 votes

and then lose because skarner is bad at essentially everything else.

Very Hard Engage2 votes

except you play him wrong...

because skarner is a great champ

http://champion.gg/champion/Skarner/Jungle?

the secret? STOP BUILDING WARRIOR, stop building ad, stop taking ghost, and just look to flash R a carry. gg ez.

macromite3 votes

I've been a cinder puretank skarner for a long time. he's still shite.

More from Gameplay

More by Succubús GF