A lot of the AD bruiser items have CDR while the AP bruiser items have none?

xxxMadLionxxx·Apr 3, 2019·4 votes·2,860 views

all have 10-20% CDR

have no CDR

How is this fair? I thought CDR was primarily a mage stat?

29 Comments

Sir SaltarinApr 3, 201913 votes

Ah yeah and you ignore item 3152 obviously

xxxMadLionxxxApr 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:29:58.535+0000)

Ah yeah and you ignore obviously

Yes I forgot, but its only 10% cdr tho

MarshbouyApr 3, 20195 votes

but that wouldn't fit with OP's agenda

Spicy RiceApr 3, 20195 votes

And item 3157

jocomotionApr 3, 20191 votes

And item 3102

Vulkus IApr 3, 201910 votes

Mage players complaining for no reason, again.

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 3, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vulkus I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:41:17.699+0000)

Mage players complaining for no reason, again.

i'd agree.... but this isn't about mages.

NyarlathοtepApr 3, 2019

[{quoted}](name=Vulkus I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:41:17.699+0000)

Mage players complaining for no reason, again.

He said ap bruisers. Not mages.

Ahri BakaApr 3, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vulkus I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:41:17.699+0000)

Mage players complaining for no reason, again.

He said he is AP Bruiser player , how dafuq is that mage player to you ? what's worse is you got upvoted ,no Bias at all

SaezioApr 3, 20195 votes

item 3001 item 3102 item 3157 item 3152 item 3100

?????????????????????????????????????

MordridtheBlackApr 3, 20194 votes

it is fair because if you look at the items they have that do give them cdr, they all have extras on them aside from cdr

item 3285 Power, Mana, Extra CDR, and the spilt on hit bonus at 100 stacks that does damage to 4 other targets item 3030 Power, Mana, Extra CDR, and an activatable that can slow nearby champions item 3003 Decent power, Mana, Extra CDR, extra ability power depending on max mana, and some mana regen item 3040 Decent power, Lots of Mana, Extra CDR, and an activatable mana shield item 3157 Power, Armor, and a "hey you can't touch this" activatable item 3102 Power, MR, and a spell shield for the next enemy ability

so it is a decent trade off...besides, each of the items you listed for mages are often situational and not always needed

xxxMadLionxxxApr 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

it is fair because if you look at the items they have that do give them cdr, they all have extras on them aside from cdr

Power, Mana, Extra CDR, and the spilt on hit bonus at 100 stacks that does damage to 4 other targets Power, Mana, Extra CDR, and an activatable that can slow nearby champions Decent power, Mana, Extra CDR, extra ability power depending on max mana, and some mana regen Decent power, Lots of Mana, Extra CDR, and an activatable mana shield Power, Armor, and a "hey you can't touch this" activatable Power, MR, and a spell shield for the next enemy ability

so it is a decent trade off...besides, each of the items you listed for mages are often situational and not always needed

Yea...but these items are not really bruiser items as they have no health. They are broader and used by almost all mages, not AP bruiser specifically.

MordridtheBlackApr 3, 20191 votes

If you put CDR on the bruiser items it could (and likely would) make them broken and over powered

which would result in

a) their other stats being nerfed (making them less favorable)

b) the removal of the cdr (putting them back at square one)

KlydeFrogApr 3, 20191 votes

the items he listed are most always built together

jocomotionApr 3, 20191 votes

To be fair to both sides

half of those items aren’t bruiser items
OP didn’t post the other half because reasons

Minimac2000Apr 3, 20192 votes

There are no effective ap bruiser items currently. It just isn't a subclass that has items catered to it. Also item 3152

Ulquiorra0123Apr 3, 20191 votes

Have you considered buying a fucking ludens lmao.

ContDeCaterinca1Apr 3, 20191 votes

Trinity, Spear, Death Dance are not exactly bruiser items. They are duelist items, offering burst damage at core and some DPS with the attack speed gains.

They work well with bruisers in general though.

The pure Bruiser items are Black Cleaver(offers 20% CDR), Mallet, Sterak's, Titanic Hydra. They offer no CDR.

Critmaster GarenApr 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

have no CDR

item 3152 item 3115 item 3001 item 3100 (id still count that)

Chembaron YamadaApr 3, 20191 votes

The actual problem is that there aren't any AP bruiser items to begin with and Riot acknowledged this already. They actually wanted to add solid AP bruiser item options close to Sylas release, since he is supposed to be an AP bruiser. But the internal tests for this didn't work out well and this project got iceboxed for now (as far as I know).

Hence why Sylas gets to get overtuned numbers on his kit, since he is lacking the itemization to compliment his playstyle.

Critmaster GarenApr 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The actual problem is that there aren't any AP bruiser items to begin with and Riot acknowledged this already. They actually wanted to add solid AP bruiser item options close to Sylas release, since he is supposed to be an AP bruiser. But the internal tests for this didn't work out well and this project got iceboxed for now (as far as I know).

Hence why Sylas gets to get overtuned numbers on his kit, since he is lacking the itemization to compliment his playstyle.

let me guess. every single mage started building them and rumble became an unstoppable monster.

Jerry SeinfeIdApr 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-03T14:29:33.108+0000)

let me guess. every single mage started building them and rumble became an unstoppable monster.

i'd expect rumble to be nerfed/buffed accordingly as he's more of a bruiser anyway. but this is most likely what went wrong.

The thigh guyApr 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-04-03T14:35:22.826+0000)

i'd expect rumble to be nerfed/buffed accordingly as he's more of a bruiser anyway. but this is most likely what went wrong.

Careful. You might trigger the hashinshins.

Critmaster GarenApr 3, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9EAxwXR,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-03T14:38:04.222+0000)

Careful. You might trigger the hashinshins.

this doesnt even make sense.

no one is triggered. but its obviously hard to make ap bruiser itemisation without mages just becoming super tanky versions of what they already are, since the stats they require are pretty much the same + health and resists.

the best way to balance ap bruisers is through their individual kits.

the question is also if its worthwile. like yea, you could introduce something like an ap black cleaver into the game, but youd have to rebalance literally every champion who could build such an item. including

Karthus Anivia AurelionSol Azir Cassiopeia Teemo

literally every ap scaling champion with damage over time effects built into his kit. thats for the most part not just melee champions.

notice how much less physical dot effects exist in the game than magic dot effects, which makes cleavers focus group smaller. and most of the champions who use cleaver are melee, except for a few outliers like graves, mf and lucian.

most of the ap bruisers who would build such an item are also decently powerful (maybe slightly undertuned) atm and would probably become broken with it.

Rumble Sylas TahmKench Singed (? how many more even are there? Diana Mordekaiser )

so if youre gonna end up nerfing these champions anyway, why bother with adding this item for them in the first place?

boricCentaur1Apr 3, 20191 votes

Well maybe if there was more then like 2 or 3 ap bruisers it would be a problem like why have a group of items for only a small amount of champions.

Also no those are not bruisers items. item 3165 a anti heal/assassin item. item 3151 damage over time item. item 3027 and item 3116 are both better on mages then bruisers.

In my opinion riot needs to add ap bruiser item while adding more ap bruisers to use them.

Vlada CutApr 3, 20191 votes

Laughs in item 3115

lowrankheroApr 3, 20191 votes

There are ap bruiser items? Where are they Diana is still searching

SanKakUApr 3, 20191 votes

Technically, it's not fair. While we're at it, why is Cinderhulk still so bad?

FSRERApr 3, 20191 votes

Because no matter what you build on a mage, he is going to do shit ton of dmg ( Annie Veigar Velkoz ) while the ad bruiser items didn't use to do so much dmg.