Is it considered trolling to not build a sightstone as a Support?

JavelinJoe·Jun 14, 2016·26 votes·2,995 views

I run into this ever few games where the support just refuses to get a sightstone. And usually when asked why they are not getting one, it is not for any legitimate reason. Typical answers include:

I dont feel like it
It is not my job to ward
You build one then
My [insert champion's passive/ traps here] are good enough for vision
I have my trinket
We don't need vision

All of these are not legitimate answers for why a support should not get a sightstone. It is part of your class' build. Time to accept it. It is why RIOT made items for SS to build from/into. These items are pretty good, and generate gold. It is that important that you have one and use it. I can't think of the last time I won a game where my support did not get one.

So enough with this no SS for the support bs.

http://i.imgur.com/CoWZ05t.gif

Edit: BTW I am a support main.

70 Comments

Reaper SorakaJun 14, 201611 votes

It isn't a requirement to build a sightstone, but it isn't a wise decision to skip it.

When enemies start paying attention to items bought/built, they'll play deathbush. When your allies are developing minimap awareness skills but have no wards, they will become impatient and assume safety. There are like 32 bushes in the game... I mean they can't be in every bush all the time, right?

JavelinJoeJun 14, 20162 votes

Only with a item 3462 would it be possible to ward every bush

TeslynJun 14, 20168 votes

i won and lost games as a support some i didnt even bother to buy a sight stone..

earliest times - W: 11:06 / L: 8:47 excluding never buying it.. longest time - W: 30:03 / L: 21:51

here is the flippity reality for you... harassing your support to buy a sight ward just to have it is BS.. straight BS..

if you arnt going to use the vision given than why get SS. warding is an skill and should be learned and how to use that vision as well.

i have warded areas heavily .. like NSA watching you on the dirty web sites vision.. only to have my team go fight in darkness.

i get 3.. 3 wards... count them .. 1 .. 2.. 3.. and if you say i get a pink.. if that thing gets removed often with no actual value for it .. i am not buying more...

i dont believe SS is that important during laning phase.. and if my ADC believes it is so important i will farm.. you want me to change my play style up for you .. you will see my play style change so i can do what you want... if you want farm .. then farm correctly.. and stop forcing heavy pressure into darkness.

Reviewing some of my losses i can honestly say warding more wouldnt have saved them.

your score: 281 - 264 My score: 99 - 57

i believe support is a carry role. i will ward when i feel it is important.

things when i know games are going to be a loss when i see comments like "you're a support...." insert here 'you should ward' 'you dont get blue' 'whatever else'

understand this crystal clear so if we ever play with each other... my wards are for me... if i put wards in an area and the team chooses to fight else where .. its a 50 - 50 if i am going to fight with the team based on their performance in the game. i set up where i want to fight. use it and play as a team with what i provided.. or you ward..

now let me drive this message home for you... we have played for the same amount of seasons... compare my progression verses your progression...

you can either do your job correctly or... https://m.popkey.co/3addaf/zJqge.gif .. i dont care how i get the nexus... (within game limitations) if i am dragging you kicking and screaming or riding on your shoulders to victory. i have no pride to hold me back either way. in the end all i want is the nexus.

Jayle27Jun 16, 20162 votes

applause And so we have a beautiful example of when I play Taric supp

BemaponJun 14, 20167 votes

Bard item 3285 item 3094 item 3100 item 3115 item 3089 item 3135

We dont need to see them if they are dead right?

SnowFallJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jungler Maidsama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w8BOcJpe,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-06-14T03:06:26.440+0000)

We dont need to see them if they are dead right?

Oh wow, you even buy rapid just for passive

invisiblecat1Jun 14, 20165 votes

I hate it when people do this. 90% of the time they don't get SS they will build frost queens and then things like Rabadons (They are the people who wanted mid, but didn't get it, and they say 'I have a support item'

JavelinJoeJun 14, 20161 votes

They are the worst imo because they take farm too

CyndercatJun 14, 20164 votes

Most of the time supports definitely should have sightstone and if they give an excuse like 'dont feel like it' when they dont buy it I would consider it trolling.

However, if I have placed wards early game that have been totally ignored by teammates and my team is just flat out ignoring my pings and basically not looking at the minimap at all, then I wont buy it because its a total waste. Its rare this happens, but it does happen.

Other specific situations might be if an enemy is superfed and I need to rush a defensive item to survive, then I may delay sightstone or if their jungle is just ignoring my lane entirely then again I will delay it until I feel its needed and prioritize items that can give an advantage in lane.

It makes me rly salty when im expected to ward the entire map and noone else bothers to use their trinket at all though. Especially when they dont buy a single pink the entire game.

BakedLotionJun 14, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Most of the time supports definitely should have sightstone and if they give an excuse like 'dont feel like it' when they dont buy it I would consider it trolling.

However, if I have placed wards early game that have been totally ignored by teammates and my team is just flat out ignoring my pings and basically not looking at the minimap at all, then I wont buy it because its a total waste. Its rare this happens, but it does happen.

Other specific situations might be if an enemy is superfed and I need to rush a defensive item to survive, then I may delay sightstone or if their jungle is just ignoring my lane entirely then again I will delay it until I feel its needed and prioritize items that can give an advantage in lane.

It makes me rly salty when im expected to ward the entire map and noone else bothers to use their trinket at all though. Especially when they dont buy a single pink the entire game.

lol you're forcing ppl to buy an item. It isn't considered trolling if they don't wanna buy something. What don't people understand?

Mig89Jun 14, 20161 votes

I always grab tier two gold item then boots then ss. I will drop the ss if 1 I'm the only one warding and its 30 minutes into the game(rarely happens) 2 we are just way behind and are fighting out of base defending constant sieges

BastionKrossJun 14, 20164 votes

I take it this way: If the support and their trinket wards are the only things giving vision on the map, then it's safe to assume the rest of the team does not value vision highly and it's alright to skip a sightstone. If they bitch, gently remind them how many wards they placed down that match (somewhere around none).

Warding is everyone's job. Either everyone does their part, or no one should do it.

FrickendaChickenJun 15, 20161 votes

While warding is everyone's job, you should ask/remind the other players to purchase a pink ward (really everyone in every role should buy one when they can/if their current one is down) and still get SS to assist in that, make a team effort out of it; instead of "alright, fine, feel my wrath"

Miss LuxannaJun 14, 20161 votes

I had a top laner chew my ass out for not warding that one little bush in north river side, during laning phase. Sometimes I just don't understand people.

Jayle27Jun 14, 20164 votes

Honestly, it shouldn't be mandatory for the support to buy SS. The entire team should be warding regardless of their position with the exception of maybe the jungler on some occaisions in which item 3364 can be mandatory. But then again the jungler should still buy a pink ward every now and then.

Mig89Jun 14, 20161 votes

The jungles needs to ward if he's even al oust decent. A jg who does t ward is not a jg I want

Jayle27Jun 16, 20162 votes

That's true, so basically everyone should be warding

JamesTheMage17Jun 14, 20163 votes

Please- no toxicity back at me for saying this. It is my opinion that is not up to the public to judge- Everything that goes wrong on a team is blamed to yours truly, the support. Even if they did everything they could, always getting yelled at. If I'm gonna have a passive (zyra) and an active that gives FREE vision every eight seconds, who are you to say I'm such a horrible supp for not building sight stone? I get a pink ward and trinket, with, again, free vision every 8 seconds, and still get yelled at. It is not trolling, nor is it required, if a supp does not build sight stone. Five teammates with vision and free trinkets (along with a pink ward or two) is enough.

Deep Terror NamiJun 14, 20162 votes

If you can delay getting Sightstone due to your kit or the enemy comp, that's all well and good, but it's only a delay. Vision is far too important to ignore unless your team snowballs so hard and fast that the enemy can't venture into their own jungle before mid-game (1 in 100+ games?).

Is it a literal requirement, and trolling if you don't? No, but you're not going to climb very far. It will stop working out for you once you start getting matched with people that roam and rotate where you're blind.

TheVishualJun 14, 20162 votes

Lyte would say no... I say yes

IcyPepperJun 14, 20162 votes

I dont feel like it

It is not my job to ward
You build one then
My [insert champion's passive/ traps here] are good enough for vision
I have my trinket
We don't need vision
Not being a team player
Ditto
I mean, if you're playing a tank you could afford to, but if you're playing an assassin or something it's a tad silly. Although it hits hard if you're playing a tank jungler, since technically the guy can ask you to. Although, hey, two sightstones never hurt.
Sometimes, I see this happen with other support players. If the team responds appropriately to vision and aid in vision control, then this excuse falls flat. If the team isn't even using their given vision appropriately and maybe ward three times the entire match, the support player might have a point.
Technically true. If their duo partner actually knows how to hit 4 on their keyboard too, then they can get by until the laning phase is over. Politely ask them afterwards to get a sightstone, but only if you've been using your vision tools as well.
Maybe trolling, maybe just being really bad at the game. Obviously not a support main.

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 14, 20162 votes

I played vayne and my support told me to get my own sightstone so I did

my support then asked why I don't help them win their lost teamfights later and I told them that i'm built to splitpush with vision not to team fight,

carried that game too

FluffyMcArfArfJun 14, 20162 votes

Supports get treated like such fucking garbage. It's no wonder why people hate playing as one.

And it's dogshit that nine times out of ten, teams who bitch at their support to buy a sightstone never ward, themselves. You have wards of your own, you fucking boobs. Use them.

Athenes LuluJun 14, 20162 votes

Can't wait for all the "support mains" to show up and tell you otherwise that they're "not obliged to build a sightstone".

Preach!

JavelinJoeJun 14, 20161 votes

I'm here and I say it is more or less needed every game.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 14, 20161 votes

Because support role is the only role with having the highest chance of being Sightstone viable.

Like, do you really want me to rush Sightstone as ADC Ashe or Jungle Rengar?

Miss LuxannaJun 14, 20161 votes

If you Jungle Lee Sin a Sightstone seems well.

Friendly RamJun 14, 20161 votes

Ok on that note. Do you need a ss on maokai support? All other supports i generally build it on. Sorry know you put that under#4 just want a community opinion.

EvilMerodachJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Honker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w8BOcJpe,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2016-06-14T13:38:38.105+0000)

Ok on that note. Do you need a ss on maokai support? All other supports i generally build it on. Sorry know you put that under#4 just want a community opinion.

Why not? He scales with hp cause of his passive. So, better on him than most supports.

Also he has no escape mechanic, so worse for him to get caught out unaware than most.

2 good reasons to get it.

3rd being you're support. Meaning you're not going to have to gold to build enough items to either outtank or outdamage the enemy tank/ap bruiser, so don't try to. Just do what you can to help your team win, which, on low gold, is vision and built in utility on your kit (peeling for carry, cc, etc.) Which none of that scales with items very well for maok.

Friendly RamJun 14, 20161 votes

The thing is he has 90 sec wards on an 8 sec cooldown.

EvilMerodachJun 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Honker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w8BOcJpe,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2016-06-14T14:08:30.758+0000)

The thing is he has 90 sec wards on an 8 sec cooldown.

The thing is he has 40-60 sec wards on an 12 sec cooldown.

And they are pretty good as wards, but not as good at being a ward as actual wards. -They cost a lot of mana -They are one-off wards, they'll spot someone once (like enemy jungler,) that person then leaves, then you have the next 10 or so seconds before you can toss another one to not know if the jungler is going to loop back around for a second gank attempt -They aren't stealthed. The enemy knows they have been spotted, they can adjust strategy accordingly. Throw a seed near dragon? Enemy runs by dragon, they planned on killing it, but seeing the seed, they decide to do something else. Enemy plans on doing dragon with a SS ward there...they don't know if you can see it or not, they attempt dragon, you can come steal it or kill them.

I can see your point though, seeds do kinda work for wards well enough for a while, possibly through all of laning phase. Which, I can see as a good argument to delay getting SS. But not good argument to not get one at all. There's a few other supports that can hold off on SS if they have something else big they can buy at the time. Fiddlesticks 2 forms of cc to stop most ganks early on, usually even if they get the jump on you, and his insanely high ap damage scaling, can outweigh extra warding for a while. Lux use E to facecheck brush for your team, also ap scaling. Zyra also got the seed thing going for her Morgana ganks? What ganks? Snare the frontline then black shield ally... ~~force wave~~ these aren't the ganks you're looking for.

But still, for all of them, if you have the lowest gold/cs on your team, you should probably have a SS at some point, cause your item value isn't going to match anyone on the enemy team, but well placed wards can matter way more than anything damage/tank/peel-wise you'd gain from your tiny amount of gold invested elsewhere.

The Bearded BardJun 14, 20161 votes

Sightstone doesn't even do damage.

Miss LuxannaJun 14, 20161 votes

Vision doesn't one shot the enemy team. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Colgate GatorJun 14, 20161 votes

While I don't consider it trolling, it's definitely detrimental to your team, if you don't feel like doing it then pick something else and leave the role open for somebody who will take the responsibility of warding via sightstone.

Sairek CearesteJun 14, 20161 votes

As a Soraka main, I may or may not hold off buying Sight stone, as the additional HP to her can actually be bad for her considering her heal consumes a percentage of her max HP.

Basically, if my ADC keeps getting hurt, or we're pushed back into the turret, I will delay buying it. In the case of the first scenario (ADC is bad at avoiding damage or the enemy has a good poke-comp lane), it's because I cannot afford having the additional HP Sight stone provides because it makes it a lot harder to heal. In the second scenario (pushed back to tower a lot), it's because we don't need the extra vision since we cannot capitalize on it. Wards from both my trinket and the ADC should be enough as we're not in a position to roam. Don't get me wrong, having wards to get information to know where an enemy is on the map is valuable, even if you don't have map control; but sometimes having that extra 800 gold to be put into something better suited depending on the state of the game.

There's a few other niche cases, but to me personally, those two are the ones that happen the most.

FiddlesOnTheRoofJun 14, 20161 votes

It's very troll to not build one, and puts your team at a significant disadvantage

emreecheekJun 14, 20161 votes

I mean, I'm just a baddy casual. And when I play support, I love getting sightstone. I get to disproportionately ward my lane to see incoming ganks, better see if my jungler or mid-lane is gonna be in trouble soon, better see if I want to roam while our lane is pushed, and better catch out the other support trying to roam/ward.

Sightstone is really powerful, and I think I get to build it. It's not a drag - It's a lot of power, actually. And it means that if my team isn't looking at the mini-map often, I'll end up calling a lot of the shots by default. Usually the Jungler will do this too.

Mandang0Jun 14, 20161 votes

You can say the same thing of every nonoptimal build.

Enemy team has 2 thornmails and the ADC's working on their 2nd phantom dancer instead of a last whisper: are they "trolling"? Top laner's feeding all through laning phase and continues building their trinity force instead of defense: Troll? How about if the jungle chooses against tracker's knife? Is their refusal to buy vision different? What if support Zyra does more with the gold she's not spending on vision than the jungle does?

I personally will build sightstone every game, but your argument's still full of holes.

JavelinJoeJun 14, 20161 votes

That top laner is more or less feeding out of stuberness so it is sorta trolling, but unlike the other lanes, supports have items which they gain gold from that build out of sightstone. These items while not restricted to supports, were made with supports being the buyer like 95% of the time.

MrPharmDJun 14, 20161 votes

Should be.

MEMEME670Jun 14, 20161 votes

As a D1 support main, I never don't buy sightstone. However, there are Challenger support players that basically never buy sightstone.

So, while I personally don't think it's ever a good idea, it's definitely arguable, and definitely not trolling.

MizayaJun 14, 20161 votes

Trust me I will one day make a smurf, get to 30 and play support just so I prove you all wrong that you can't win without sightstone, since you say it's trolling I will troll and win. Of course I never play support usually. If you aren't better than your team you probably should buy sightstone though. Unless you are Zyra where you can be an AP carry with no farm.

BeldairJun 14, 20161 votes

I know i will get downvotes for this.

But you do know Junglers have a ward item as well....

JavelinJoeJun 14, 20161 votes

I do but they too have item dependencies built around the hunter's knife and talisman which offer advantages depending on the champon using them. You dont jg without them so why would you go support without SS. The jungle ward item is good, dont get me wrong, but not having a SS is far worse.

Swiftstrike4Jun 14, 20161 votes

Sightstone is a terrible item and this has more to do with all support items not having great stats or really any passive benefit that directly help the support.

Supports should build the item, but I don't get on their case if they delay building it. In general once I hit high silver every support builds it. Now that I am in gold seeing a support NOT build it is an anomaly.

FourVsFiveJun 14, 20161 votes

What if by buying a gold item Sight stone cost is reduced by 100 gold? or 10% = 80 gold.

JavelinJoeJun 15, 20161 votes

.... SS is built with the gold generating item to make 1 item that does both already

AlwaysByMySideJun 15, 20161 votes

It should be.

BârdJun 15, 20161 votes

Not trolling, just straight up bad/selfish.

FantasySniperJun 15, 20161 votes

Green trinket is sometimes enough to get you by until mid/roam-game and dragon is contested (especially if vision is inconsequential to how well the enemy jungler ganks). Higher elos probably shouldn't risk it, though.

While it's true that traps aren't enough of a warding system, I do take red trinket on Zyra unless I'm up against a hook (or annoying poke champion like Karma). It makes it easier to deny vision for facilitating ganks or keeping you safe in the bush, and her seeds are mostly useless if you're pushed into their tower anyways.