Fyi to anyone who wants to use winrate as their only source of evidence for arguing balance

HateDaddy··4 votes·556 views

With your logic, the following champions are OP and need nerfs right away:

  1. Malzahar
  2. Heimerdinger
  3. Amumu
  4. Janna
  5. Ahri
  6. Diana
  7. Wukong
  8. Sona
  9. Brand
  10. Swain

Note: I did not use the champion icons because I'm not a redditor, writing their names out (and proper writing for that matter) never hurt anyone.

So you see? Of those top ten, I'd say maybe 2 are actually overpowered at the moment. And it's arguable that one of those is only due to itemization changes (runeglaive Diana). The other you could argue is Janna because when she's even close to being good, she's always right on the line of broken/strong. And fuck Janna, so personal bias completey admitted here.

So there, these champions are overpowered by your logic and you cannot argue otherwise you'd be calling yourself stupid. So the next time you say "lel 46% winrate champ? Wtf how he op, 46% winrate." Winrate doesn't reflect power, it's just one of many statistics that's one of many byproducts from their strengths.

So in short, winrate doesn't mean everything and stop acting like it does or ill find you and knock on your front door and run, reddit sucks and happy belated 4th of July.

20 Comments

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

Well. Malz: E+Liandry, point and click to force someone to back. You can siege 2v5 with him while the others do other interesting things. Donger: can't lose lane. The lane is HIS. Mumu: the unnerfed one of the strong AoE AP tanks that got huge with Cinderhulk. Well duh. Janna: the peeling master, she's actually damn strong as of the latest stats since she protected the single threats in the teams (and AFAIK soloqueue is still pretty deep into tank meta compared to before Cinderhulk) Ahri: after the DFG nerf, they fixed her pretty well indeed. I'll admit however that she's not THAT strong. Diana: SCARY AS POOP Wukong: armor-shredding aoe monkey. A goddam monkey that shouts and confuses you. Sona: a fragile Q-poke machine since her rework, she runs between far top and far bottom of support winrates since it's the only thing she can do. Brand: well ok you right on this one. Swain: ROFL more like Nigel Swainberry "BLARGHARGHARGH oh hey u ded kek". Also Malz learned E+Liandry from him.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w71yEM26,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-07-09T15:01:57.742+0000)

Well. Malz: E+Liandry, point and click to force someone to back. You can siege 2v5 with him while the others do other interesting things. Donger: can't lose lane. The lane is HIS. Mumu: the unnerfed one of the strong AoE AP tanks that got huge with Cinderhulk. Well duh. Janna: the peeling master, she's actually damn strong as of the latest stats since she protected the single threats in the teams (and AFAIK soloqueue is still pretty deep into tank meta compared to before Cinderhulk) Ahri: after the DFG nerf, they fixed her pretty well indeed. I'll admit however that she's not THAT strong. Diana: SCARY AS POOP Wukong: armor-shredding aoe monkey. A goddam monkey that shouts and confuses you. Sona: a fragile Q-poke machine since her rework, she runs between far top and far bottom of support winrates since it's the only thing she can do. Brand: well ok you right on this one. Swain: ROFL more like Nigel Swainberry "BLARGHARGHARGH oh hey u ded kek". Also Malz learned E+Liandry from him.

iirc, Brand is being played more as support than mid. And Brand support is actually pretty annoying to fight

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

nothing means anything by itself, so what do you use to decide weither a champion is op or not? the fact that he owned you last game and it feels bad?

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

nothing means anything by itself, so what do you use to decide weither a champion is op or not? the fact that he owned you last game and it feels bad?

Tbh, you can take what has a high pickrate in competitive play as a good place to start. Nautilus is broken, he's being played all over the map - he just does too much damage for how much lockdown he has (and his e was just nerfed so we will see). Gnar is still overtuned imo, mega Gnar mostly. Ryze is still absurd - they don't even let him through in pro play. Like, the list goes on honestly, idk.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Mini Gnar's W is the worst thing in laning IMO. It should be converted to physical damage so that you can itemize full armor against him and just ignore him in his supposedly weak form ("windows of poo").

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w71yEM26,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-09T15:06:24.588+0000)

Mini Gnar's W is the worst thing in laning IMO. It should be converted to physical damage so that you can itemize full armor against him and just ignore him in his supposedly weak form ("windows of poo").

Idk, if they did that, they'd probably make it a higher %max hp damage spell, making it more oppressive early. Most Gnars Max Q, maxing W is only against champions whove no chance of getting in range of you. It's annoying but it's the least of his problems, Mega Gnar is still just overtuned as balls.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Maybe it's because I main Swain and Nasus xD should go back to AD Malz top

AyRe CoNteMpT2 votes

this means that those things are very good in combination with their gameplan and the general LCS meta. it has nothing to do with how good the actual champions are IN THE GAME or if there could be a strategy and a championpool that would be very effective against it. all it is is an indicator for the way "progamers" currently see the game.

even if you dont patch the game for 3 years from now on, it is very likely that the meta will shift many times during this period and champions who are deemed "op" right now will not even see play anymore.

taking the pick/ban/successrate in LCS as an indicator for a champions strength is like saying justin bieber makes better music than tracey chapman because more people listen to it. it has a much higher sell-rate on i-tunes. LOL.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

this means that those things are very good in combination with their gameplan and the general LCS meta. it has nothing to do with how good the actual champions are IN THE GAME or if there could be a strategy and a championpool that would be very effective against it. all it is is an indicator for the way "progamers" currently see the game.

even if you dont patch the game for 3 years from now on, it is very likely that the meta will shift many times during this period and champions who are deemed "op" right now will not even see play anymore.

taking the pick/ban/successrate in LCS as an indicator for a champions strength is like saying justin bieber makes better music than tracey chapman because more people listen to it. it has a much higher sell-rate on i-tunes. LOL.

Using competitive play as a starting point isn't a bad thing to do. I'm not suggesting that if it's played in pro play, it must be op, let me make that clear. But I'd it is truly broken, it will get played in pro play. It's the highest level of play, so it's never bad to start here.

Using pro play as a reference is no different than using winrate soley. Collectively these things paint a bigger picture but on their own, it's not going to be very accurate. That's the point in trying to make regarding that.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

i think winrate in soloQ is a better indicator of how strong champions are than win/pick/ban/dyrusdicksucking-rate in lcs, even tho it also is pretty negligible.

if you look at how the meta evolves and how little it sometimes has to do with patches and ALSO (and this is the truly important thing) how much it has to do with "better pros" being copied by "worse pros".

like, even this season there are some really REALLY funny examples. i got three of them for you:

  1. varus mid. faker played it first on a pro level (surely not first in the world i assume) and now its "meta" and every dickbrain is copying it. to a certain success i'd say, because varus mid is actually pretty safe, so even "noobs" can do it.

  2. master yi mid. faker did it ONE GAME ONLY and it was INSTANTLY copied i think 3 or 4 times in the NA/EU lcs and they all lost with it and did super bad. why exactly? is master yi just not good enough in the midlane? i would say, he has his place but since its very situational and/or very much more skill-reliant than varus or any of those meta-cancer champs mid, really only faker can do it right now.

  3. nocturne jungle. he was played exactly twice. once in korea and then in either NA or EU, i dont remember which one because for me, LCK is the "good" league, LPL is the "funny" league and LCS is the "look at these guys, they are pros" version of solo.

so, in korea they built him warriors + botrk and carried big time. he probably was a situational/surprise pick but they practiced that and it worked out. the LCS he was being played with cinderhulk i think randuins or some other useless tank item to "catch" people and i would say that pick lost them the game solo and was entirely useless and even detrimental.

this is not just a very sweet example of how the "meta" comes to be, its actually a basic attribute of human psychology. humans tend to copy the ones who do good because that increases your own chance of survival. there are only a few humans who "go their own way". some of them fail and some of them come out big because it works even better than the "usual" way. now if you copy, you will never surpass the original but you will be rather safe, statistically. tho if you go your own way, it could bear huge success or tremendous failure. if you are not afraight of this failure, you open yourself up to success.

in the "meta" this is reflected by one guy doing something and it works and everyone else copying it. if it then fails for everyone, they leave it be but if it works, its instantly "meta" in the entire pro scene but not because it is "overpowered" or "so good" or "the best pick possible in this situation" but its solely because their psychology works that way.

and because humans mostly work that way, soloQ meta is LCS meta even tho its not even the same game. people are just too much like plants, in a way. literally no brain, but at least collect some sunlight from those who shine.

this means, if you really, truly want to find the strongest champions and the most OP-shit, you would not have to look at the "Meta" but you would have to look at what would beat the meta sky high and also not get beaten by anything else. there are some champions like that, but they are not being played in the LCS nor have they very high pick or winrates in soloQ.

ShuffledPancake1 votes

(ww has the highest winrate in master tier kek)

AsphodelNext1 votes

Malzahar OP, needs nerfs right away Evidence: his winrate

steampig1 votes

I finally had to look up lel. It all makes sense now.

lel How douchebags say "lol"; similar to "lolz" or "lawl", but with a greater amount of douchebaggery.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

I finally had to look up lel. It all makes sense now.

lel How douchebags say "lol"; similar to "lolz" or "lawl", but with a greater amount of douchebaggery.

hmm makes sense

I always figured the people who seriously said as being giant fuck bubbles

Confirmed on the Internet, 100% legit

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

but but but butbut BUTT I sayz lel cuz eets phun

Troy2426211 votes

Isn't the running joke "Swain OP needs nerfs"?

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Isn't the running joke "Swain OP needs nerfs"?

Swain is OP

Here's how you master Swain

Press E/Q on someone, last hit minions, press W then hit 6. Press R and walk towards your opponent for lcs big penta kills and plays and collect the glory and spoils of ranked warfare and elo terrorism.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

It's not a joke. Just w8 for a visual upgrade and he'll get nerfed to the ground.

Live2LetDie1 votes

As much as people complain it is true that the LCS is the best place to figure which champs are op and which are not. Champs aren't picked just because a comp but picked based on their power. It's like ok we need a top laner with cc and is tanky, here are 3 champs like that, then they crunch all the ratios and pick the best champs. LCS only play the most powerful champs in the comp they picked.

Vistha Kai1 votes

It's not about winrate. It's about how you use it.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy