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Vayne, a late game champion is strong against lane bullies in lane, this is an issue.

Visigoth·Sep 12, 2015·5 votes·927 views

Isn't this why Azir has gotten nerfed? Isn't this why Nasus has a balls laning phase before he gets his defensive items and stax.

Something just seems off when Vayne is bullying and , who are supposed to bully their lane opponent, whereas is supposed to be weak early on.

Imagine if could bully , or if old could bully old . Imagine if strong early game champions also scaled hard into late game. What if once again had a great late game. He got destroyed because he did well early and late. is melee and very squishy with high mana costs, one of the worst early games, and very situational abilities (his E specificially), and has been nerfed so much to the point when Riot reworked him into garbage just so they could come back later. Vayne is ranged, has a 2 second cooldown on Q (less CD than Kass ult and gets bonus AD, only drawback is can't go through walls), invis, an AD and MS buff, % MAX HP TRUE DAMAGE (which is dumb as hell because your max hp is supposed to be the only protection from true damage, but Vayne just fucks that rule), and hard CC, and is ranged, and is AD so she does good damage to towers, and has a lot more DPS and even more burst right now.

If there's not something wrong with that, then I guess Urgot is god tier and Jax has the worst late game, and I guess Yi does little damage and Anivia is a super tank.

13 Comments

disregardableSep 12, 20155 votes

Vayne doesn't bully Draven. If Vayne wins to Draven, the Draven was shit.

Lucian needs a bit of a buff.

PennsSep 12, 20151 votes

"Lucian needs a bit of a buff" Kappa

AtheosisXSep 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3coUxTE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-12T19:41:19.582+0000)

Vayne doesn't bully Draven. If Vayne wins to Draven, the Draven was shit.

Lucian needs a bit of a buff.

http://champion.gg/champion/Draven

Looks like "Draven counters Vayne" really doesn't hold up anymore. A 49.08% win rate in Platinum+ is not so impressive...

GodarenSep 12, 20152 votes

Vayne is the number one counter to lucian, I agree she is to strong but that example is garbage

PennsSep 12, 20151 votes

To be fair, a good Nasus can win against a Renekton fairly easy too. He hasnt really been changed in ages despite his cancer kit (like Irelia and Vayne).

Chuck CharlesSep 12, 20151 votes

A good draven absolutely shits on vayne. Lucian could use some slight buffs like previous poster said. The amount of vayne QQ is insane. Learn to play against her. She is beatable early. You can't crush her like you could before with lane bullies, but you can definitely beat her. Caitlyn, draven, graves are all great against vayne. If you want to not be outscaled while still standing fighting chance in lane phase I'd argue kog maw is good as well. Especially once you start getting points in W and your trinity power spike is on par with her Bork spike.

AtheosisXSep 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3coUxTE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-12T19:50:24.267+0000)

A good draven absolutely shits on vayne. Lucian could use some slight buffs like previous poster said. The amount of vayne QQ is insane. Learn to play against her. She is beatable early. You can't crush her like you could before with lane bullies, but you can definitely beat her. Caitlyn, draven, graves are all great against vayne. If you want to not be outscaled while still standing fighting chance in lane phase I'd argue kog maw is good as well. Especially once you start getting points in W and your trinity power spike is on par with her Bork spike.

I don't think anyone is saying she can't be beat, at least no one with any sense. The issue that many of us have is that beating her and keeping her beat is so much harder than beating other ADCs. On top of that she is one of the most aggravating ADCs to deal with if you've been in another lane and bot feeds her.

Chuck CharlesSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think anyone is saying she can't be beat, at least no one with any sense. The issue that many of us have is that beating her and keeping her beat is so much harder than beating other ADCs. On top of that she is one of the most aggravating ADCs to deal with if you've been in another lane and bot feeds her.

Vayne is pretty easy to shut down imo, to get her extra dmg from W she has to get 3 hits or expend a lot of mana doing the auto , q auto, e combo. A good cait will hit her everytime vayne goes to hit a low creep and can do it insanely safely. If vayne uses tumble auto on you peacemaker back as she probably can't dodge it if you are good at aiming. And you have your own cheese combo. She comes up with tumble, you auto q, e. Peace maker and e hit her and you are safe from silver bolts.

Draven just flat out out dmgs her even if she has silver bolts. U do not want long trades with draven and vayne needs more than just one cheeky q. Cuz even her q on draven will be out traded by his axes.

People just struggle to realize you need to back off when she's ulting or not go super aggro and push up when she has ult as her chase potential is insane

AtheosisXSep 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3coUxTE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-12T20:11:03.064+0000)

Vayne is pretty easy to shut down imo, to get her extra dmg from W she has to get 3 hits or expend a lot of mana doing the auto , q auto, e combo. A good cait will hit her everytime vayne goes to hit a low creep and can do it insanely safely. If vayne uses tumble auto on you peacemaker back as she probably can't dodge it if you are good at aiming. And you have your own cheese combo. She comes up with tumble, you auto q, e. Peace maker and e hit her and you are safe from silver bolts.

Draven just flat out out dmgs her even if she has silver bolts. U do not want long trades with draven and vayne needs more than just one cheeky q. Cuz even her q on draven will be out traded by his axes.

People just struggle to realize you need to back off when she's ulting or not go super aggro and push up when she has ult as her chase potential is insane

You make it sound so easy yet as shown in the link I provided earlier neither Draven or Cait have positive win rates against her in Platinum+. And beyond that you can look at her stats in all high elos and you'll notice she is both incredibly popular and has a fairly high win rate. People continue to perpetuate these myths about various ways to counter her and how easy she is to shut down in lane, but even pros are having issues actually doing that. Basically the issue is that while she may not have the best laning phase it's just not bad enough to justify being the hardest scaling late game carry in the game. The defense against a scaling hypercarry is supposed to be to crush them early, but with Vayne it's too damn hard to do considering how ridiculous she becomes late.

KayleeTSep 12, 20151 votes

Vayne's true damage is fine, statistically she will be doing 2-3 times more physical damage than true damage unless the enemy has like 225+ armor

Sniper 0Sep 12, 20151 votes

Vayne isn't a lane bully. She can't completely harass her laners out of lane. If you're not positioning yourself near a wall she won't be able to stick a sig amount of damage on you.

Draven AlwaysSep 12, 20151 votes

Just another bronzie complaining about vayne, who is fine right now, just focus her zzzzz.

AtheosisXSep 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Draven Always,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3coUxTE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-09-12T20:14:06.869+0000)

Just another bronzie complaining about vayne, who is fine right now, just focus her zzzzz.

She has a very high win rate at the highest elos. Try again.

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