I think I know the problem with Garen.

Pyrithegethon··12 votes·1,633 views

He feels bad in longer fights ( something juggernauts thrive in) because of his abilities and cooldowns.

Now I'm not saying increase his damage, but take a look at how other Juggernauts play in sustained fights.

Darius Can constantly use Q, pull enemies in, and can ult a lot if he gets resets. Get that passive going and feel amazing in fights.

DrMundo Constantly spams Q, has an active sunfire, a nice auto reset, and his ult makes him feel awesome in sustained battles.

Illaoi Can use W a lot to get tentacles slamming, can Q tentacle, can pull spirits, and ult makes it feel a lot more fun and epic with constantly having something to do.

Nasus Though he has most of his damage in Q, constantly being able to use it feels nice in fights, throws down E for armor shred, wither enemies, and ult to get huge and tanky.

Mordekaiser Ignoring how shitty he is he can constantly spam E, use W to sustain, Q feels awesome with each hit, and his R feels amazing, especially when he gets a soul.

Now look at Garen.

Garen Qs every so often in fights, uses E and W, if the enemy isnt in kill range he awkwardly stands around and auto attacks while waiting on his E to come back up.

He has too much downtime between his combos and sustain in fight that it's better to build him full AD just to kill the enemy in 1 combo or they will kill you easily.

28 Comments

Critmaster Garen6 votes

yes.

this is why i wanted them to give him a mini rework to his passive. i want them to change it to % missing health regeneration, and then have it automatically activate for a duration after a spin, depending how many spin ticks he got on enemy champions, in addition to the out of combat regeneration. i wouldnt mind if it regenerated less health out of combat at lvl 16 in return.

that would at least help him bridge the time until his spin is back off cooldown.

one of garens major issues is, that hes forced into a playstile where he can either burst his target within a 4 second window, or he gets killed during the downtime of his spin when he fails, since he lacks the tools to disengage from a fight once he commits.

he cant actually take extended fights against pretty much everyone, because even his w cant compensate for the lack of a sustain mechanic.

youre forced into an awkward hit and run playstile with a champion who doesnt have the mobility to support it.

Hammermancer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vxXgdsbY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-24T23:24:35.707+0000)

yes.

this is why i wanted them to give him a mini rework to his passive. i want them to change it to % missing health regeneration, and then have it automatically activate for a duration after a spin, depending how many spin ticks he got on enemy champions, in addition to the out of combat regeneration.

that would at least help him bridge the time until his spin is back off cooldown.

one of garens major issues is, that hes forced into a playstile where he can either burst his target within a 4 second window, or he gets killed afterwards if he fails. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance he cant actually take extended fights against pretty much everyone, because even his w cant compensate for the lack of a sustain mechanic.

I like building ad movespeed on him then basically being an assassin, running away though jg to heal up then going for a split push or another assassination

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vxXgdsbY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-24T23:28:28.386+0000)

I like building ad movespeed on him then basically being an assassin, running away though jg to heal up then going for a split push or another assassination

right, but isnt that kindof an issue when a juggernaut is forced to try and play like that?

all you end up with is a worse skirmisher or assassin than actual skirmisher or assassin, because he doesnt have the kit to support such a playstile, and youre just trying to compensate with your itemization to a degree.

its the only way he really works right now, but it makes him by no means optimal as a champion.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

THAT IS WHY YOU MAX OUT CDR ON GAREN

Pyrithegethon1 votes

Still doesnt help his very awkward gap in hiss combo.

agbudar1 votes

ok lemme get this one item 3009 item 3071 item 3065 item 3083 item 3742 item 3033

KaRniVooL131 votes

40% ** edit cdr when if you got 18 into the 2nd tree and pick up intelligence you can get 45% cdr

so his Q is 8 second cd and then you get 45% cdr that brings it to like 4.4 seconds his E 9 seconds - 45% is 5seconds his ult at lvl 16 (max rank) is 80 cd -45% would be 44seconds

and with is naturally tankyness he could easily get off more then one Q and E per team fight

and you want to E the entire team to provide aoe damage and arm shred to help your adc kill them

eMuffin1 votes

30% + 5% =/= 45% ???

KaRniVooL131 votes

i meant his build only has 30% cd but if you go 18 points you can get up to 45% cdr not saying it would make his 30% into 45%

edit

i stand corrected was not aware warmogs gave cdr.

FantasySniper1 votes

Warmog's has 10%

KaRniVooL131 votes

oh shit ... never knew that... lol never build it ...

my bad thanks

50000000000000001 votes

It got changed a while ago, and it got added as a unique passive.

AttackOnTeemos2 votes

I think if his ultimate kills a villain it should be allowed to reset >.o

Ralanr2 votes

But then it's just a weaker and more situational Darius ult.

Penns1 votes

Wouldnt say weaker cause he doesnt need stacks to do the full damage first.

Ralanr1 votes

But it's magic damage when against anyone that isn't the villain.

GigglesO1 votes

"Out of combat healing" because we wouldn't want him to do anything useful while in combat.

Genocide Victim1 votes

Garen needs a kit rework.

Hayaishi21 votes

All Juggernauts are really bad, Darius is the best of them and even then he's bad too. They are all too easy to kite.

Quil Evrything1 votes

you're complaining "I cant play garen like other champs".

Well, gee, thats a good thing. Otherwise he'd just be a clone of other champs.

Other than 1v1, garen has to be played differently than most bruisers. He's about being a cross BETWEEN mundo and darius. know when to run around and be annoying (most of the time) know when to run in, dunk, and then RUN AWAY again.

Even in 1v1.. most times, unless you're stupidfed, you shouldnt 1v1. Only exceptoin being "The Villain".

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vxXgdsbY,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-12-25T02:40:31.437+0000)

you're complaining "I cant play garen like other champs".

Well, gee, thats a good thing. Otherwise he'd just be a clone of other champs.

Other than 1v1, garen has to be played differently than most bruisers. He's about being a cross BETWEEN mundo and darius. know when to run around and be annoying (most of the time) know when to run in, dunk, and then RUN AWAY again.

Even in 1v1.. most times, unless you're stupidfed, you shouldnt 1v1. Only exceptoin being "The Villain".

This, Garen's different, and it's fine. He doesn't have to be a good duelist of a Juggernaut. (we have plenty of that) He is the anti poke and siege Juggernaut. Healing back the damage he takes from poke and turret shots. Combined that with the fact that he's manaless, and you have a champ that basically never has to go back to fountain, except to get more items.

Yet people still complain about it, out of a (possibly misguided) sense that his kit has no place in the meta. Thinking that only the duelist Juggernauts are of any value.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

The armor shred buff he just got on his E helps a ton in this regard, especially late game. That shred plus a cleaver will easily cut an enemies armor in half.

Escheton1 votes

Isn't that the point of Garen? He's a Skirmisher-Juggernaut. He puts down a zz'rot and then just jumps at you from random bushes spinning around and yelling "DAMACIA!" And if you try to fight him, he either wins, or just runs away and regens, while you need to back or Knifecat will get you. Meanwhile he's busy bugging your teammates with his constant jump-scare brush-"DAMACIA!!!".

It adds a lot of map-pressure. Everywhere. He's no Illoai or Yorick that just set up shop toplane and kill you if you dare approach. He finds YOU!

DAMACIA!!!

And in teamfights, he shreds everyone's armor. Tanks a bit, then either executes the villain, or bolts out of the fight. Leaving the enemy low, and the mid-lane dance-off in your favor. While Garen regens to do it all over again. He's not meant for all-in kill-or-die-trying teamfights. He's made for short exchanges, poke and run. Then outlast and push for the win.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

Isn't that the point of Garen? He's a Skirmisher-Juggernaut. He puts down a zz'rot and then just jumps at you from random bushes spinning around and yelling "DAMACIA!" And if you try to fight him, he either wins, or just runs away and regens, while you need to back or Knifecat will get you. Meanwhile he's busy bugging your teammates with his constant jump-scare brush-"DAMACIA!!!".

It adds a lot of map-pressure. Everywhere. He's no Illoai or Yorick that just set up shop toplane and kill you if you dare approach. He finds YOU!

DAMACIA!!!

It's a shame that if he tries that on anyone who is a halfway decent duelist like Darius, Illaoi, Nasus, Yorick, Tryndamere, Jax, or Master Yi they will just kill him.

Well, he might escape Illaoi I guess. He won't have done any real damage to her, but I guess he at least won't die.

Garen is still a piece of shit whose only value lies in beating up bad opponents in plat and below.

Escheton1 votes

{quoted}

It's a shame that if he tries that on anyone who is a halfway decent duelist like Darius, Illaoi, Nasus, Yorick, Tryndamere, Jax, or Master Yi they will just kill him.

Well, he might escape Illaoi I guess. He won't have done any real damage to her, but I guess he at least won't die.

Garen is still a piece of shit whose only value lies in beating up bad opponents in plat and below.

Isn't that all you can expect from a 450 IP simple kit beginner champ? That's the point right? Then you graduate to Darius and the like after that.

50000000000000001 votes

A simple kit doesn't have to mean low skill ceiling.

Escheton1 votes

{quoted}

A simple kit doesn't have to mean low skill ceiling.

True, but there are advantages to that low skill ceiling. It means to improve, one must master the macro of the game more. And as stated, I personally find it useful for now players to have those champions that are cheap, easy to pick up and also easy to discard when grown out off. Garen, tho fun at times, is very binary and bland. Even his backstory and VO is rather bland. And I think that is good. Makes it easier to move on. Imagine if Garen was like Sion, who had one of the best reworks of the game? People would lock themselves into that plat ceiling, simply out of love for the champion.

10Tickler1 votes

Not full AD

Gotta get item 3157, for that Golden Demacian JUSTICE swag

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