It doesnt make any sense. I can understand fiora being a tank shredder and burst squishies because she actually has to be in melee range but Vayne? She is ranged, has a huge AD Steroid, can constantly go invisible, and escape if she needs to.
Critkeeper47 votes"She can't team fight that well"
Can hardly team fight at all, but doesn't deal as much damage to squishies OR to tanks, and he's melee.
Obvious bias is biased.
Brain Errör 40420 votesHe 2 shots squishes when he gets all his items... ._.
Pyrithegethon32 votesImplying the game lasts that long
Brain Errör 40415 votesTrue... but that doesn't mean he CAN'T. Lol.
The 2nd Horseman3 votesYes and veigar can press q and one shot a full hp build of Nunu that went mr items. Doesn't mean he ever gets to.
Brain Errör 4047 votesTryndamere will get full items much more consistently than Veigar getting that many stacks. You being illogical =/= mean that I'm also illogical. There is always a possibility of him getting fed.
The 2nd Horseman2 votesBut then that fact that vayne will be able to more consistently burst people then tryndamere a melee. They both have dashes and get free stats in their kits so why is it vayne can do at the least similar to someone who must be in melee range
Brain Errör 4042 votesI'm not arguing that Vayne doesn't need to be toned down, lol. I'm just saying Tryndamere has the potential to 2 shot a squishy.
MrStealYoGanks4 votesI've seen more Veigar's get stacks than I have decent Tryn's that can two shot squishies.
LordGeovanni2 votessquishies build no defense why should they survive being caught.
Rito Staff5 votesYou're comparing two champions of different roles, you make no sense. You can compare Trynda to Aatrox to Xin. Aatrox is garbage.
Trynda does shit Vayne doesn't, like split pushing, if anyone comes to 1v1 him, he has the best chances. Vayne can't be splitpush because she has to be in teamfights.
Critkeeper18 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Noat Amu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cV2uehkb,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-11-16T21:22:10.665+0000)
You're comparing two champions of different roles, you make no sense. You can compare Trynda to Aatrox to Xin. Aatrox is garbage.
Trynda does shit Vayne doesn't, like split pushing, if anyone comes to 1v1 him, he has the best chances. Vayne can't be splitpush because she has to be in teamfights.
thats nonsense
FalconPawwwwnch2 votesTrynd can't 1v1 Vayne
Brain Errör 4042 votesBarely anyone can 1v1 Vayne. Very small roaster there my friend. And that's mostly consistent with assassins. And very selected few assassins.
Psi211 votes"She can't team fight that well"
Obvious bias is biased.
Tank and juggernauts players didn't like Vayne from the beginning.
The only reason she is bursting down squishies is RIOT's bad balancing team yet again not testing the new duskblade is giving her ridiculous unwanted attention.
Unique – Nightstalker: After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack deals 50 + (200% Lethality) bonus true damage on-hit (lasts 4 seconds after being seen by an enemy champion).
compared to the old Duskblade.
Unique Passive – Nightfall: After 2 seconds, deals 90 (+ 25% of target's missing health) physical damage. If the target is taken down before Nightfall dealt damage, the full cooldown is refunded.
Can you see the abuse in the new duskblade?
And before you say duskblade should not be used by ranged to bandaid the problem.
Again I need to stress how bad a job the balancing team is doing. Look at the state of MOST of the updated champs.
PermabannedGaren1 votes
Tank and juggernauts players didn't like Vayne from the beginning.
The only reason she is bursting down squishies is RIOT's bad balancing team yet again not testing the new duskblade is giving her ridiculous unwanted attention.
Unique – Nightstalker: After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack deals 50 + (200% Lethality) bonus true damage on-hit (lasts 4 seconds after being seen by an enemy champion).
compared to the old Duskblade.
Unique Passive – Nightfall: After 2 seconds, deals 90 (+ 25% of target's missing health) physical damage. If the target is taken down before Nightfall dealt damage, the full cooldown is refunded.
Can you see the abuse in the new duskblade?
And before you say duskblade should not be used by ranged to bandaid the problem.
Again I need to stress how bad a job the balancing team is doing. Look at the state of MOST of the updated champs.
Vayne isn't even using duskblade.
Psi211 votesVayne isn't even using duskblade.
The smart ones that are one shotting squishies kinda are.
https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/5ci8vz/duskblade_vayne/
PermabannedGaren1 votesThe smart ones that are one shotting squishies kinda are.
https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/5ci8vz/duskblade_vayne/
DepartLoLMaster I 2 points 6 days ago* Pros aren't building it because it's a theory craft that everyone wants to work, while it's mediocre at best.
Are they?
The pros aren't doing it either.
EndlessSorcerer14 votesAll ADCs shred squishy targets since they stack offensive items.
You can't really shred through tanks (who stack health and resistances) without having enough raw damage output to outright murder squishy targets.
HazyCloud712 votesNot like Vayne. There's a difference between killed in 3-4 autos and being one shot from a Q auto static shiv crit proc.
You never see champions like Jinx or Ashe engage on an assassin when even.
EndlessSorcerer8 votesDraven with his Q active comes pretty goddamn close on his first autoattack.
When the second one hits you, you die.
Keìron9 votesBut, you know, he doesn't have %hp true damage, a 3 sec. cooldown dash, stealth and hard cc.
LordGeovanni4 voteswho needs % true damge when all your auto attacks deal effectivley double damage.... see jhin with more ad than other people
PB4UAME4 votesVayne's Q criting hits harder than Draven's axes. Add shiv and IE to the mix, and the massive flat AD on her ult, and Vayne can output more physical damage, while getting 1 second of stealth and having passive true damage.
JavelinJoe1 votesLol Jhin only has 4 shots you know. He also has no mobility (Draven has his W and Vayne has her Q). Jhin also cant increase his base attack speed at all. So yes he hits much harder, but only about one basic per second at best.
crippler384 votesjhin has passive movespeed so he has about as much as draven, plus he can put on swifties unlike draven who pretty much exclusively gets zerkers.
JavelinJoe1 votesThat movement speed is very situational on him critting. Unlike how Draven can just press W.
crippler382 votesthat's about as situational as him auto attacking 4 times, he's also got a slow and a root so he has some zone control.
Requiemsfire13 votesBecause she's an AD burst mage with anti-tank properties hue.
Bots Whilst High6 votesIt doesnt make any sense. I can understand fiora being a tank shredder and burst squishies because she actually has to be in melee range but Vayne? She is ranged, has a huge AD Steroid, can constantly go invisible, and escape if she needs to.
Vayne has a 7 second window to go invisible and that's after she uses an ability that has a 3 second cool down. Wouldn't call that "constantly". Second, if she's using her tumble offensively then she can't use it to escape. Third she has the least range of any ADC and has to put herself into a significant amount of danger to optimally use her in a team fight. I feel as if most of these morons lose duals to vayne, the duelist adc, and come straight to the boards to QQ.
SpongebobIsLife3 votessivir, kalista, lucian, and graves auto attack range is lower just an fyi...
Depárt9 votesWhen someone says Vayne is low range, it doesn't just refer to her auto attack range.
Vayne is one of the two marksman/adcs that can't affect you outside of their auto range, she's 100% single target and attack modifiers. So please, whenever someone says "Vayne is lower range than other adcs" don't bring in auto range, it makes you look ignorant.
Also Kalista is the same auto range as Vayne, at 550.
Hardstuck G45 votesLeast range? Do you put any research into your posts? She has 550 range, that's the average for ADCs.
Squidward Dab2 votesThese people who claim she has short range need to be more specific and state that her ability to harass in lane is short range but yes her auto range is average.
Vallalan4 votesVayne is a problematic design by nature who also isn't a problem most of the time. (keyword: most)
her kit is basically designed to do one thing: Single target damage. everything in her kit is single target and amplifies her auto attack damage in someway. this leaves her very feast in her famine and entirely reliant on if she can get to her items in the first place. with her current kit, her laning will always be trash tier. even now it is pretty bad.
What this also means though is if there is ever a world where the meta involves ADCs slow scaling and lane bullies simply aren't doing their job hard enough to justify being picked, it means she is instantly top tier. Yes, vayne can go from literal trash, to god tier with one patch if the right things fall in place.
This patch you had nerfs to lethality, no compensation buffs on the lane bullies (jhin is probably only one who didnt need it), fervor being heavily nerfed so warlord's is the go to. This mean vayne gets to scale. she can survive lane and just farm up to her items. if she gets a gank or two watch out as well because a fed vayne is something no one wants. But right now, even without ganks she has NO problem surviving lane. It was the perfect storm of events
1.) vayne gets Q crit buff (she needed this as before you had no reason to pick vayne as the reward was not worth the risk by being shit on early) 2.) armor pen gets heavily nerfed, lane bullies weakened. 3.) Fervor gets heavily nerfed, lane bullies weakened even further
vayne now gets to just scale up into the monster she is. I personally have been somebody who never minded vayne because she is easy to poop on in lane usually. right now, she isnt. so they either have to buff lane bullies, or nerf vayne. personally, the Q crit changes are no longer necessary now that lane bullies have been hit so damn hard. revert those and she should fall back in line. they also gave her the ability to use Q on towers. I think that should stay, but only the Q crit change needs to be revereted.
Depárt1 votesThe only thing that needs to happen to her is letting control wards see her.
A lot of ability to outplay her in lane and make sure she stays down went away with the inability to hit her in stealth.
Vallalan3 votesi dont think so. if you nerf the Q crit then she's not nearly as oppressive as early. she will still scale slower and need about 3 items to hit the power level she is now and even then she won't be as strong as she is now.
chunking carries so hard with a low cooldown ability is just too much since she can get to that point so easily now.
her ability to outplay is fine. thats good. its frustrating to play against, but its a key part of her kit and her identity as a champion.
that control wards dont see her now they can nerf her accordingly knowing that.
Finn Teh Human3 votesShe's a duelist. Which is why she has no aoe/doesn't have any range steroid.
JavelinJoe4 votes
There you go
Dengeden10 votesPlease don't tell me you lost to Vaynes who buy either of those.
Finn Teh Human1 votesRunnans was just a hype but in actually isn't great on Vayne. The Gunblade only gives extra range every 5 attacks if you're attacking constantly.
LordGeovanni1 votessure the bolts dont carry her passive but she has shit ton of ad and and crit in her build path much like any other adc. and they still do massive damage
Finn Teh Human1 votesThere's better items on Vayne than Runnans/Gunblade. There's rare times I use gunblade and even then I don't think it's a great item for her. The only champion that can really abuse it is Caitlyn and maybe Jinx. And the bolts from runnans do damage no matter what ADC you are lol.
LordGeovanni1 votesreally didnt want to point this out gave you a chance 
< Gunblade
Finn Teh Human1 votesShrug, still knew what I meant.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesRiot has put too much in her giving her too much strength in too many areas
The main things she has right now are:
Massive Burst (Q Crit w/ Full AD [+ Shiv]) Abundant Self Peel (E + RQ) Insane DPS (W + R + Base stats) Suberb Tank Shredder (W) Nearly Uncatchable Escape Mechanic (RQ) (Also waveclear but that's because of Shiv + her threat/safety keeping her opponent from stopping it)
One of them has to go or be nerfed in effectiveness. Any one of them and she will be balanced.
Depárt2 votesNone of those are problems, and she's had all of them since she was made (the burst used to be a little weaker due to ratio buffs on her Q)
The only thing that was unnecessary was removing the ability to see her with control wards, add that back and she's very close to if not already back in line with other hyper carry adcs.
One of the biggest reasons she's strong right now is the meta favors her, lane bullies got nerfed really hard all together. Her biggest weakness was how easy it is to shut her down hard early, gating her items.
Now that armor pen and fervor have been nerfed really hard, there's not much left to bully her out of lane anymore. When the meta favors Vayne, she becomes very strong, very fast.
OyddAWqJ5r2 votesNever listed them as problems. Note I said strengths--as a champion can have one too many strengths. Fact is that she has had 1 too many fall on her and thus needs to be compensated for how much these changes have overbuffed her.
Also pink wards countering her stealth was a dumb case of 75g countering a champion anyway--that interaction should have never existed.
Due to having too many strengths now those strengths have indeed become problems. Fact is that one problem needs removal or nerfing and then all the other problems will be less problematic and hopefully end up with balanced Vayne again. But right now the ratio change plus the Q usability QoL change and the stealth changes she's become way too strong. This isn't a case of the meta merely favoring her, it just makes the already bad problem we had with her even worse since they happened at the same time.
Depárt1 votesSaying she has too many strengths is implying 1 or more of them is a problem, which is why I said they aren't.
While the 75G countering a champion case feels pretty bad, it was essential to gating her power, since a significant amount of her weakness comes from her laning phase and how easy it was to shut her down.
With that interaction being removed and the meta starting to favor her, she's starting to become too strong at most elos. It's become too hard to shut her down, there's not many champions left in the meta that can really bully her.
Her Q ratio buff was absolutely necessary, she was in a god awful spot before it and that buff needs to stay.
Letting control wards see her in her ult adds back a lot of potential to shut her down early, which would result in her being more balanced.
It needs to be a matter of if she can get the necessary items to carry and not how soon she can get items to carry.
