Soooooo when we getting Twitch Nerfs?

Zerenza·Nov 2, 2017·61 votes·2,680 views

^ Sick and tired of being one shot from camo with little to no counterplay available. Please all i'm asking is to increase his reveal range, that way you can actually see him before he one shot's you.

49 Comments

Unreformed ShacoNov 2, 201721 votes

It's not the reveal range, it is his ultimate range increase that is strong.

The pop out is whatever, but 900 range makes him pretty safe.

imo lower range, increase penetration damage.

He'd rely more on positioning that way.

ZerenzaNov 2, 20171 votes

That's fair, while i don't agree and i think that him revealing himself upon attacking is the issue. He needs to be revealed for atleast 1 second before attacking, if melee champions can't attack from Camo or Invisibilty with no counterplay(a couple exceptions), a much safer ranged champion shouldn't either.

Faceroll TacticsNov 2, 20171 votes

Reminder that Rengar is visible for a second before he can jump, but twitch isn't and he has range safety.

Maybe make his ultimate break stealth and have a minor cast time?

Blackstone01Nov 2, 20174 votes

You could additionally make hurricane not apply with his ult.

KaìjuNov 2, 20171 votes

While I don't disagree I do just want to correct you and say it's only 800 range, not 900. But that's the only thing I had to say.

DeusVultNov 3, 20174 votes

TBH, its not just the range that makes him safe that makes him so strong, other ADCs have that but arent as frustrating to play against

But Riots approach to adding "counter play" to assassination tendencies is entirely untouched on Twitch. He build IE+2 zeal items, comes out of stealth and kills you back line in 2-3 hits. They have more warning from the likes of Evelynn Rengar Shaco Leblanc than they ever will from twitch

My Waifu VanillaNov 3, 20171 votes

Another option is lower range and remove the hurricane interaction so you don't get crit by 4 autos when he pierces through the team (or only half pierces since the spread on hurricane is like 120 degrees).

Velzard of KozNov 2, 201718 votes

Or we could just wait that few days for Runes Reforged to see how champs will end up and which ones will require nerfs. For all we know it may be possible his hard counters will be stronger, he will lose some raw power etc. Yes his kit is problematic and yes he should've been looked at long before, but any significant nerf right now is irrelevant. People should finally realize Riot won't likely do any massive general changes few days before such massive preseason changes.

ZerenzaNov 2, 20179 votes

Press the attack= After landing 3 auto attacks deal a small ammount of damage and increase ALL DAMAGE DEALT TO THAT TARGET BY 12%

I think i know how this will go.

I understand that Runes Reforged is gonna do something to everyone but it's not going to change a champions core mechanics. He's still going to be able to one shot people from a ludicrous range with little to no counterplay due to his reveal range being way to low. All i want is for him to get the Evelynn treatment, his reveal range either needs to be increased, or his auto attack range need to be decreased while ulting.

JJI744Nov 2, 20171 votes

I haven't been on the PBE. Would that actually work for Twitch, since with hurricane he is "hitting" different targets?

I'm assuming you can only have that mastery procced on 1 person at a time. If not, I can tell you without testing it would be beyond broken on Twitch with hurricane.

BlaQ GokuNov 2, 20175 votes

The mark only applies to the initial target. Targets hit by runaan's aren't affected by the rune.

ZerenzaNov 2, 20171 votes

The mark only applies to the first target but that doesn't really matter in twitch's case due to his Assassin playstyle. He can shred whole team's but he's a very effective assassin too making Press The Attack a very good keystone on him despite it not synergizing with Hurricane.

Blackstone01Nov 2, 20172 votes

Yeahhhh, but like every fucking patch that's been a reason not to nerf him. "We feel X being changed should make Twitch weaker because Y and Z will be better, so we want to wait and see how these changes will effect him.", and lo and behold fuck all happened and Twitch is still in his broken state. If its any other champion then Riot would be fine nerfing them alongside the rune changes.

AirKingNeoNov 3, 20171 votes

Because the new runes don't change champion's kits or broken items?

So the meta stays the same +5 champions who break X rune.

SwiftKitten88Nov 3, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuwrgd8Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-02T13:13:28.091+0000)

Or we could just wait that few days for Runes Reforged to see how champs will end up and which ones will require nerfs. For all we know it may be possible his hard counters will be stronger, he will lose some raw power etc. Yes his kit is problematic and yes he should've been looked at long before, but any significant nerf right now is irrelevant. People should finally realize Riot won't likely do any massive general changes few days before such massive preseason changes.

yeah umm i agree with the waiting part and his counters are indeed stronger. but yeah so is he so.. idk.. we will see

preseason is going to break a LOT of shit

Karn BishopNov 3, 20172 votes

I think everyones fine with twitch being super shitty for a few patches due to nerfs during runes reforged.

Death by GlamourNov 2, 20174 votes

The problem isn't solely to do with twitch being op.

The whole adc itemisation needs looked at

GripaAviaraNov 2, 20173 votes

AOE snipe ultimate, that's twitch's problem. Also, a thing people overlook is early game strength he has in trading due to his e stacking damage. This imho gives him a big advantage, because with cait or varus for example, you need to pause autos and cast the ability, with twitch you just auto and gain a lot of time. You can go atts build and be decent mid game and monster late

AhrisNov 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

AOE snipe ultimate, that's twitch's problem. Also, a thing people overlook is early game strength he has in trading due to his e stacking damage. This imho gives him a big advantage, because with cait or varus for example, you need to pause autos and cast the ability, with twitch you just auto and gain a lot of time. You can go atts build and be decent mid game and monster late

Twitches early is quite weak.

SuperLuigiLXIVNov 2, 201712 votes

Twitch's early is like the early game of every single other ADC not named "Caitlyn" or "Draven" in that it REALLY doesn't matter much. The supports decide the early game.

2kewl4lifeNov 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

AOE snipe ultimate, that's twitch's problem. Also, a thing people overlook is early game strength he has in trading due to his e stacking damage. This imho gives him a big advantage, because with cait or varus for example, you need to pause autos and cast the ability, with twitch you just auto and gain a lot of time. You can go atts build and be decent mid game and monster late

Lmao I love how you guys complain about twitch, but twitch is very weak landing phase. He literally can't trade early and has barely any mobility. I agree he is good late game but that's no excuse to complain Btw: twitch can't even one shot....... you guys are like OMG ONE SHOT OP like what adc doesn't do a lot of damage if their fed... You guys are complaining about twitch but what about trist and xayah

Janna Me FiddleNov 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lmao I love how you guys complain about twitch, but twitch is very weak landing phase. He literally can't trade early and has barely any mobility. I agree he is good late game but that's no excuse to complain Btw: twitch can't even one shot....... you guys are like OMG ONE SHOT OP like what adc doesn't do a lot of damage if their fed... You guys are complaining about twitch but what about trist and xayah

Twitch still possesses many holdover points from his assassin adc days, however unlike other assassins that have had counterplay added and are thus much harder to do well with, Twitch doesn't.

You can afk farm under turret the whole early game, show up at 25 minutes and with your massive safety from Camo and Spray and Pray, win team fights.

Whereas I'd also argue Vayne has the same issue of holdover from being an assassin adc, she at least CAN be stopped/shut down because she has to get in much closer than Twitch to do work and needs a far more budget intensive itemization to come online.

ULTRAF0RCENov 3, 20171 votes

isn't the goal for twitch to be the assassin adc with either vayne or kog being the tankbuster?

Janna Me FiddleNov 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

isn't the goal for twitch to be the assassin adc with either vayne or kog being the tankbuster?

Twitch had his role redefined to Hyper carry, he's no longer supposed to be an Assassin.

MorendabanusNov 2, 20173 votes

Twitch and tristana are bonkers atm due to a peel meta + crit items being made cheaper a while ago.

Literally zero fucking reason to play an early game oriented adc when you know 100% that you're just not going to get enough kills to end the game fast vs a tank meta, and the enemy adc who picked a lategame critbuild carry will only get their items like 2 minutes after you anyway, and they will be stronger after that.

Riot fucked up botlane.

HensetsuNov 2, 20173 votes

I'll go out on a limb and say this.

I think it's just Twitch's Q that creates so many of these problems. I genuinely think that the best way to balance Twitch is to rework his Q into something that doesn't have stealth.

There are very few instances of stealth I find acceptable, such as Wukong W and Talon's R. Twitch's Stealth makes him extremely good at punishing players even when their positioning would be fine against any other champion.

Not only that, Stealth just generally lacks good counterplay. I hate the mechanic.

CorruptedScytheNov 2, 20171 votes

Except that's a key part of his identity, so there's no way anyone who plays Twitch would be happy with that.

My Waifu VanillaNov 3, 20172 votes

Twitch's thing is that he has two "identity" things going for him.

A) He's the stealth marksman

B) He's the only marksman in the game besides MF that WILL shred your entire team if you look away from him

With Miss Fortune you know WHERE she is at all times and where she will come from. If J4 jumps on your entire team there is a CHANCE you can stop the MF ult because you know ahead of time where to throw your CC at. With Twitch on the other hand he could be anywhere in a 360 degree radius of your team and arguably burst you even faster than MF because of how ridiculous crit scaling is and how it interacts with Statikk, Hurricane, and his ult. Oh and he can move while he decimates your team. At least MF has to stand still like a sitting duck.

He can't have BOTH of these things and be balanced. I would be perfectly fine if he kept the stealth, but he can't keep the stealth and also have the game winning ultimate that you honestly can't prepare for since his stealth has an absurd uptime after level 13.

Doctor DymentNov 2, 20173 votes

He cannot one shot from stealth and yes he does need to be toned down. Whether through his stealth or reduced range on his ultimate, whatever. Your suggestion is sarcastic and not really helpful when you look at it. These kinds of posts are a dime a dozen, so what exactly new do you have to add to the conversation besides "Twitch is overpowered"?

ZerenzaNov 2, 20173 votes

Yes he can one shot, twitch stealth's himself, positions himself behind his opponents or, searches for a target who's alone. Twitch pops his ult when he see's someone and attacks them from 850 range, without revealing himself first.

Here's the thing though, twitch gains attack speed from Stealth, a lot of it about 50% if maxx level. This means that if he has an Infinity Edge he's going to be doing A LOT of damage really fast from a range that's waaaay to for for most squishy champs to do much about it, the fact his damage is already starting to be dealt the same instance that he reveals himself is kind of strong. And this is why i want him to be revealed when he Ult's or have a larger reveal range on his Q.

Evelynn doesn't have a single ability that will deal damage while she's stealthed, she can W you then find a way to hit you with her Q,E or R, which upon casting any of them you reveal yourself. That's good stealth balance, you have atleast 1 second of time to do something about her before she kill's you, there's counterplay. Rengar literally telegraphs who he's going to jump on and not a single ability reaches outside his stealth range.

This is the balance that a less safe melee champion has to have to make their stealth fair, i just want twitch to be held to the same standard.

FlitcheeNov 3, 20172 votes

Yeah and unless his team does their job, if he pops out behind the enemies, unless they are cc'd, the dude just evaporates because their team just jumps on him for a free kill. Yes twitch is strong, but in no way is he some god tier thing that nobody can mess up. You ever see a bad twitch? they look like idiots popping out of stealth and getting popped instantly.

PotchikirNov 2, 20173 votes

And no one complaining about tristana and xayah...

ThilmerNov 2, 20172 votes

I personally have been permabanning him the last 3 weeks.

I can't understand why Rengar stealth and Evelyn stealth were nerfed because "they have no counter", but then Riot allows a better stealth in a ranged champion?!

YuGiHoNov 3, 20172 votes

idk, why twitch does not have the same amount of counterplay as eve considering he is an adc that also becomes an assassin late game

DuskDaUmbreonNov 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

^ Sick and tired of being one shot from camo with little to no counterplay available.

Not a one-shot at all, unless he builds straight lethality and you're 4 levels down. It's not even a one-second burst window.

And there's plenty of counterplay. You can position better, play smarter, not let him get there in the first place, use control wards, jump at him when he appears, get away from him when he ults...

Please all i'm asking is to increase his reveal range, that way you can actually see him before he one shot's you.

Increasing reveal range won't really matter, and you can still see him before he kills you (as, at the very least, he's revealed after his first auto - and you can buy control wards to reveal him before then!). And it's still not a one-shot of any kind (not a kill before CC wears off, not just a single combo of abilities +1 or 2 autos...)

Faceroll TacticsNov 2, 20171 votes

He will know if he is being seen before he goes in, he can just back off and reposition

Also it's not easy to pick a twitch when you have jarvan's lance shoved up your ass before he goes for the flank

DuskDaUmbreonNov 2, 20171 votes

So you pick someone that can go for the pick regardless. Pick Rakan, Leona, or almost any assassin at all.

Pretty much nobody on the boards should be having problems because of enemy teams being coordinated, anyways. There are only about...10 people on here who are above gold?

ZerenzaNov 2, 20173 votes

One of those people i see, here's the issue. If an assassin has to get within Ability Range of a Twitch who's in Camo, who has the advantage? Talon, Katarina, Akali, Evelynn, Zed, Kha'zix, Kassadin are all Melee. Their abilities mostly have less range than Twitch's Auto Attacks, meaning that if twitch is in Camo and Katarina has to get in range to throw a Q at him first, twitch has the advantage. He can auto attack them first, and for twitch this is especially strong considering his Auto Attacks with an Infinity Edge and Hurricane will 3 shot a squishy champion, or an assassin who, btw are also very squishy.

"Oh but, the assassin probably just played it wrong, they should have won no matter what." not true. The assassin is at an automatic disadvantage against Twitch, twitch's Camo makes it extremely hard and he can pump out auto's faster than most assassins can pump out abilities due to the Assassin rework.

Burst Mage's suffer from the same but different issue, their also squishy, and while they have plenty off damage they can't see Twitch without getting into range of him. And if he sees them first, he wins. In addition many Burst Mages do not actually have range that exceed's twitch's ultimate, which exceeds his Reveal range by quite a lot. So twitch wins here too.

Twitch's Q makes him extremely safe, repositioning and getting into the perfect spot to one shot teams is really easy since twitch has camo and can attack from outside the range that he'd be revealed from. This is why he's so strong "Sustained Burst" is not a joke.

CNV NightstarNov 2, 20171 votes

does anyone here even play twitch?? twitch def doesn't need a nerf. You just don't know how to play against one in laning phase, mid and late game.

50ShadesOfÀDCNov 2, 20171 votes

Riot gives you 10 bans and you still bitch about champs being op.

ZerenzaNov 2, 20176 votes

I shouldn't have to perm ban a champion because their OP. A champion should be nerfed because their OP.

50ShadesOfÀDCNov 2, 20171 votes

Then you have no rights to complain.Downvote me as much as you want but i dont care.

Blessed By RNGNov 2, 20171 votes

Twitch is fine imo, in all my 300 ranked games i have not seen him much even when hes not banned

tristana is more broken

NecroNeromancyNov 3, 20171 votes

I really don't think Twitch needs a nerf, he is sitting at 52.17% win rate. Wards really do counter him, Twitch is like an Assassin-type adc, should you really be walking out in the open to get that cs? ummm try again Twitch

Imperial JapanNov 3, 20171 votes

Pink wards, Supports can use pinkwards+exhaust so easily and it'll completely shut down a Twitch

TopperHNov 3, 20171 votes

I see a lot of comments defending Twitch saying Tristana is more OP. According to OP.gg she has the 11th out of 16 adc winrate at barely 50% winrate. Meanwhile Twitch has been in the top 3 adc win rate since last preseason, across different botlane metas and builds (lethality, botrk, crit ardent). Currently 3rd highest winrate far above the 4th, only behind MF and Draven who let's be honest are broken too.

So stop it with the "Tristana is OP" crap. Yes she's very safe but she also does a lot less damage in teamfights compared to other ads (single target, very low damage without Q).

Thanks.