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The ADC role is the only role where 95% of games have one class in said role.

Zerenza··59 votes·3,873 views

Top Lane: Bruiser's, Tanks, Juggernauts, Marksmen Jungle: Bruiser's, Tanks, Juggernauts, Assassins, Marksmen. Mid: Mages, Assassins, Marksmen Support: Tanks, Mages, Heal Bots ADC: Marksmen

A marksmen is basically something every game/team in league absolutely needs, every so often we see a mage there but most of the time it's just marksmen. You need a marksmen on your team 95% of the time and that's kind of funny to me, why is ADC the only role that is basically locked into having one singular class that works in it?

The thing that bothers me about this is the fact people complain about ADC's being under powered or unplayable, when was the last time you saw an ACTUAL pure tank for example? If ADC's were actually unplayable they wouldn't be played, but as it turns out, its the only class that is actually needed in almost every single game.

For those that may discredit this, Zigg's has a 5% play percentage in bot lane, hence why i put 95% of the time you need a marksman.

And even then, marksmen often dominate in other roles too, such as Graves in the jungle or kindred back before she was butchered. Quinn, Jayce or Teemo in top lane who have some of the highest winrates. Or Corki and Varus in the mid lane who also have very respectable win rates in said roles.

Marksmen aren't underpowered, everyone else is just catching up to them, they were oppressive and broken for a long time. Marksmen are also one of the key classes that sepparate league from DOTA and other Moba's due to a key element that makes them broken in the first place, perfect kiting.

Sincerely to the ADC main downvotes, get over it.

104 Comments

Light deus33 votes

I will never understand the "adc in 2017" meme...

I will obliviate4 votes

Maybe because the game is now full of champs that delete ADCs with solo kills that they don't deserve??? maybe??? Because a Rengar ulti that jumps on me from stealth and deletes me with one lousy Q just like Kha Zix does doesn't take skill... even a 5 year old can do that... and even if I flash and survive for a couple of seconds, they catch up to me... while my AAs do almost nothing to them... even when I am 300 miles ahead of them in items I am at a disadvantage...

Now, the tanks... again.. their armor is so HUGE that my AAs do almost nothing to them except if I am Vayne... and then you cry about how OP is vayne... well, newsflash... she is not... she has very little HP and she comes very close to kill you... stun her and you win... now if you get pinned on a wall it's YOUR fault since it's a hard stun to land... but when I have Ashe and I am ahead and some damn tank is chasing me even though I have hit him with 300 basic attacks it's ANNOYING... because I am AHEAD and I should be winning... not running away and him laughing at my inability to take away his HP because my AAs should do more.... this whole game is not based on burst dmg and ADCs do ONLY sustained dmg.... but the problem is that with SO much burst dmg in the game, then ADC doesn't have the TIME to do his sustained dmg with his AAs... THAT SIMPLE

Variks the Loyal28 votes

[{quoted}](name=I will obliviate,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HAIj0Bc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-31T07:22:29.371+0000)

Maybe because the game is now full of champs that delete ADCs with solo kills that they don't deserve??? maybe??? Because a Rengar ulti that jumps on me from stealth and deletes me with one lousy Q just like Kha Zix does doesn't take skill...

An Assassin should always kill a Marksman, if the Marksman is alone. Period.

The only exception is when you have 3 items and they have 1.

ChaddyFantome6 votes

{quoted}

An Assassin should always kill a Marksman, if the Marksman is alone. Period.

The only exception is when you have 3 items and they have 1.

good luck killing a marksman as an assassin 1v1 after 40 minutes tho unless you are KhaZix or Rengar.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

{quoted}

good luck killing a marksman as an assassin 1v1 after 40 minutes tho unless you are KhaZix or Rengar.

I feel like most Assassins (Read: Not Skirmishers) have the advantage.

Leblanc Fizz Zed Rengar Khazix Katarina all do.

Nidalee Talon more circumstantial for these two. Nidalee needs to land a spear and Talon needs to get the jump on them.

Penns2 votes

Depends on what the adc has. If he has a Maw or a GA or something assassins are probably ded.

BluePolarizer12 votes

late game a marksman can literally resist some assassins burst through BT and GA, and then lifesteal off of them. End result, assassin dead in 3 autos and marksman at full HP again.

TequilaZombie10 votes

The memories or a Jinx just lifestealing through my burst or a Vayne bursting me harder than I burst her. So goddamn tilting.

ItzZeyro2 votes

JInx

tilted

Jet Sett3 votes

Should always be in the favor of the assassin*

Talon walking in front of Tristana shouldn't be instant death for Trist, that's kinda why they had an assassin update.

It should never be one-sided unless the champion is a specific hard counter, and even that's debatable under certain circumstances.

Nipsahoy1 votes

{quoted}

An Assassin should always kill a Marksman, if the Marksman is alone. Period.

The only exception is when you have 3 items and they have 1.

Who does the assassin always die to then? Because it doesn't seem like they really die to anybody 1on1.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

Who does the assassin always die to then? Because it doesn't seem like they really die to anybody 1on1.

Assassins lose to Wardens, Vanguards, Juggernauts, and Divers.

LordGeovanni1 votes

they should but like marksmen they usually just run away scott free.

Ackelope1 votes

in my experience as ADC, an assassin can kill me 1v1 at every point in the game, until VERY late game, and even then it depends on the assassin. Not trying to say anything about these things is broken or wrong, just stating what I tend to see...

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

princesses will always cry*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

Qukslice1 votes

The thing is that assassians aren't really causing the problem (at least for me it isn't). Often times, I'm getting 1v1'd by tanks like naut and I lose. Simply put, thornmail fucks my lifesteal and then his base damage comes through along with his bullshit shields and his perma cc. Another example of this is Hecarim. Runs straight to you no problem and charges, doing 80% of your health with his combo and then spamming his q to kill you. Poppy can do this, Maokai can do this etc. etc.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

The thing is that assassians aren't really causing the problem (at least for me it isn't). Often times, I'm getting 1v1'd by tanks like naut and I lose.

u shouldnt 1v1 a tank in first place. why are u in 1v1 situation ?

Simply put, thornmail fucks my lifesteal and then his base damage comes through along with his bullshit shields and his perma cc.

f*ck this item... but item 3072 counter thornmail

LordGeovanni2 votes

thorn mail doesnt even get past 10% lifesteal with a mr item item 3139 or item 3153 item 3026 make thornmail useless. it wasnt like that before they gimped the reflection damage though only item 3072 really did that.

Tegash21 votes

People say that ADCs are unplayable because they find they're having trouble scoring kills.

ADCs are not designed to rack up kills. That's the job of the assassin and occasionally the mage.

The ADC's job is to take objectives. They have high attack power and high attack speed, and can stand sustained fights. If they're super ahead, they can cut through towers and epic monsters like butter.

RavenMagus4 votes

If ADCs are super ahead, they cut through enemy champions like butter too.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

People say that ADCs are unplayable because they find they're having trouble scoring kills.

ADCs are not designed to rack up kills. That's the job of the assassin and occasionally the mage.

The ADC's job is to take objectives. They have high attack power and high attack speed, and can stand sustained fights. If they're super ahead, they can cut through towers and epic monsters like butter.

Indeed. An ADCs original job WAS to seige and take objectives - the combination of attack speed and raw AD helps that tremendously. Crit was supposed to be an answer to a lack of high-AD items in season 2~3. back then, 50AD was HIGH. A solid crit build back then was something like 200AD at full build, a farcry from todays 300+.

ADCs will always be extremely powerful and possess one of the single strongest itemizations in the game as long their core items are attackspeed/crit.

Spoofghoul12 votes

Ye i never understand the adc are useless now whiners

as long as your class is mandatory it's borderline oppressive imho

especially their lategame and bs lifesteal

option paralysis4 votes

They're just mad they aren't the bosses of the rift anymore. I fucking hated s4-s5 where you literally had to kill the adc or you lose the fight every fucking time. It was so boring. Now, the adc mains can't press that sweet right click on their mouse and win the game anymore and people can actually kill them so they whine. Anyway, I play soraka supp only in ranked and got from plat 3 - dia 3 by bot only and adc's are still very much relevant. If I keep my adc alive, they kill everything. Only rare exceptions where my mid yasuo or something got fed and then you keep them alive, but my point still stands. And that dumb "adc in 2k17" meme is just something people repeat when they die... I was watching redmercy yesterday and he got one shotted playing jhin in a teamfight and ofc he said "adc in 2k17" and I'm like BUT YOU GOT ONE SHOTTED BY THE ENEMY ADC, WUTTTTTTTT.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

mages are viable on top Swain Heimerdinger Vladimir Ryze Rumble just some examples

and jungle aswell. Fiddlesticks (though struggling as a champion is still regarded as a jungler)

doiminat0r36002 votes

Lol. Mages in the jungle. Didn't you hear?? Riot doesn't want that so they buffed the jungle. Now nobody can survive unless they're top tier.

Penns3 votes

That doesnt change the fact that they have less impact than other roles most of the time tho.. does it?

doublelift fg16 votes

non-sens

if marksmen are requiered in every game that means their impact is huge, if they didn't have impact they would have not been picked

Penns4 votes

Hence people start picking Ziggs and other stuff..? Its really just because most people think adcs are required, so they pick one imo. They just dont have a lot of impact before 2-3+ items, where many games are already decided.

Zerenza5 votes

Ziggs was a flavor of the month pick, his popularity bot lane has dropped remendously, it was 15% now it's 5%, Marksmen still are picked because they are the only thing that can fit properly in that role.

ADC's aren't supposed to have impact before 2 items, that's how it has to be because if any game you've ever been goes past 35 minutes you'll start to notice how much impact the ADC has, they become priority because ignoring them is impossible due to their massive crit damage and long range.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

Jungle: Bruiser's, Tanks, Juggernauts, Assassins, Marksmen.

Don't forget support Enchanters since Papa Ivern is meta.

Zerenza3 votes

Oh yes, i forgot about his niche, but seeing as how i didn't list him that's why he's unique

IcyPepper2 votes

Top and mid aren't roles, they're lanes...

Really hate the "bot = adc" mentality, it contributes to the lack of diversity in bot lane. You can have an ADC in another lane, they don't suddenly stop being an ADC.

Fawksea2 votes

Riot has stated they've wanted diversity in botlane for quite a while, thats why they dont wanna nerf ziggs because they enjoy the diversity botlane, cus its actually a decent pick and not, well y'know, rework mordekaiser

love god2 votes

It's because of the players, actually. There is nothing inherently bad about putting the marksman in a different role, such as Graves (Who is weak right now, I can assure you) and Kindred in Jungle, or Quinn/Jayce/Teemo in the top lane, or even having none at all. It is just that, where the player base is now, people don't want to pick off meta things because most of the player will try to enforce the meta onto you. People could suddenly stop picking marksmen, and then that could very well become the meta. Riot has taken steps to try to do this actually, look at Morde's rework. They had to make him broken on release to make people actually play it, which goes to show how meta strict this game can be.

To sum it up, Marksmen are in 95% of games because people prefer staying meta, because staying meta is typically safer and won't make your teams flame you.

Zerenza1 votes

Meta is used to define the "Meta Game" which is usually the "Most Effective Tactic Available." hence where the word comes from. The reason pros and other player's especially don't pick "Off Meta" is because it lower's the chances of winning, this is also why you don't pick Yasuo bot lane despite the fact he has every tool to do it. It's simply not as effective for several reason outside of being not meta.

The main reason in yasuo's example is that he's melee, this makes him much easier to kill in teamfights because he's within melee range of everyone else, for a clasic ADC such as Draven or Ashe the reason their so effective at what they do is because they have the range to stay away from things that will kill them. Yasuo, Mordekaiser and several other's don't.

The role Attack Damage Carry is most effectively done by high range, high damage marksmen because of the ability to stay out of a fight, Ease with lane trading and their ability to play safely and farm, again, due to their range.

RedWedding1 votes

Huh. I always thought Meta was a description of trends... not the game you were playing right now but more an idea of how that game is played- one step up from the game, if you will. Compare to "metafiction" where it's often described as a story within a story, or describing a show as "meta" when it breaks the fourth wall and comments on itself.

This is also where the idea of a "tank meta" or "assassin meta" comes from- overall, people are trending towards picking champions in that role, either because it is more effective or feels better, or is perceived as such without actually being the case.

Morgana as one of her original support picks could be described as a metagame call, or a pick chosen to counter that specific metagame of high CC supports.

tl;dr-- I never thought that was where Meta came from. I always thought it described layers of strategy, never the most efficient pick.

PS-- As a bonus: I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym.

RavenMagus2 votes

I believe that is the origin of the word 'meta' in our case, yes.

From Wikipedia:

Meta is a prefix used in English to indicate a concept which is an abstraction behind another concept, used to complete or add to the latter.

This is why we have the word 'metagame', which doesn't actually make sense if it's an acronym and not a prefix.

That's a surprisingly apt acronym to assign to it, though.

Golden Tager X2 votes

Also marksmen the only class in every role.

LankPants1 votes

For those that may discredit this, Zigg's has a 5% play percentage in bot lane, hence why i put 95% of the time you need a marksman.

That makes the % for ADCs 97.5%, Zigg's has a 50/50 chance of being on both teams, so only a 2.5% chance of being on the team you're focusing on.

AlienPrimate3 votes

You are also wrong. Ziggs has 7.9% play rate himself and 5% of those are bottom so the chance of a ziggs bot is 0.4%. This means that 99.6% of bot lanes are marksmen if using ziggs as the only alternative.

Dominick Destine1 votes

MF is an AD mage, ADM. Jhin is a GDC. Caitlyn is a sniper. Ashe actually is an ADC. Urgot is a ShielDC

See? I can come up with bullshit , meaningless sub-categorizations too. Reverse No True Scotsman fallacy is still a fallacy (obviously)

Blackstone013 votes

All he made up was heal bots. All those other classes have been or are the official names.

TequilaZombie3 votes

And to be fair, Heal Bots are just a not-so-fancy name for Enchanters.

Skorch1 votes

What marksman you seeing in Mid and JG?

Rayject2 votes

JG: Graves, Kindred, Twitch

Mid: Varus, Corki, Kog'Maw. And really there's a lot of other marksmen that can go mid and have successfully in the past (Cait, MF, Ezreal to name a few), but it's just not quite meta at the moment.

Would also like to point out Support MF.

Maligaro Spike2 votes

TOP:quinn, vayne

SUPPORT:Miss Fortune

Skorch1 votes

that doesnt make it a valid role there, just because graves and kindred go jg doesnt mean ADCs are going jungle. They go jungle because they have little success in the bot lane. And same with mid except they are mostly niche rare picks.

Rayject1 votes

First of all, I never pushed any argument one way or another, I only gave a straight answer to your question.

What marksman you seeing in Mid and JG?

And I shouldn't have even gone that far because the OP already gave basically the same examples. But if you want me to address your point:

Some marksmen being viable in the jungle doesn't mean ill-suited ones like Draven or Jhin should be going in there, and I have no idea where you got that idea from what I said.

Every role has champs that are more suited for one lane than another. No one thinks that Akali going top means LeBlanc and Fizz should too, or that Yasuo going mid lane means Trynd can just waltz in there fearlessly, or that Fiddles jungling means Lissandra can get away with the same, or that Alistar supporting means Rammus is viable there too.

Yet we think of AP assassins in the top lane, melee carries in the mid lane, mages in the jungle, and tanks supporting as perfectly valid ideas when considering potential team compositions. What is this double standard for marksmen that the only real place for them is bot lane and playing one anywhere else means it's niche or a last resort for them to see play?

Every role has at least one marksmen that is just as adequate in that lane as they are bot. It shouldn't be such an outrageous idea that marksmen are just as flexible a class as all the others.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Well, for starters we might finally stop calling the ROLE adc? ADC was the old term for marksmen, reffering to a class, not a role. The term just is used for the role aswell simply because 99% of the champs played in the role are/were adc.

The corecct term would be 'BLC' = BotLaneCarry, or 'DLC' = Duo-Lane Carry. Once could also use 'farmer' instead of 'carry' as it's basically just the dude that plays in a duolane and gets the minion farm, opposed to the support, that plays in the duolane(and often roams) without takeing direct farm.

Maligaro Spike3 votes

'DLC' = Duo-Lane Carry.

You would need to pay real money for unlock items that way

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