Boards›Gameplay

Making Kayn's Q a Double Cast Ability.

Zerenza··56 votes·2,798 views

What if while in Shadow Assassin form, Kayn wasn't locked in the animation for his Q, instead he could cast the first part(dash) and second part (spin) separately. This way your not locked in an animation while trying to assassinate someone and can move freely in between casts.

Maybe it has a 5 second timer to cast after the first cast?

Note: Yes, i know that kayn has buffs on the PBE, but QOL changes would certainly help him out(it really sucks being stuck in an animation as an assassin.)

Edit: Also plausible to make him Dash but make a shadow version of himself use the spin at the end of the dash, making it so he isn't locked in the spin animation and can freely move but also not making it a double cast ability.

I should probably mention that while, Yes, Darkin form doesn't get any changes to his E, the thing is that Darkin form's E isn't a "Hindrance" to Rhaast. This means that Rhaast's E isn't "Bad" on him any way, it's still extremely useful, but for Kayn's Q that's a different story, his Q hinder's his movement and makes his Assassination Pattern very slow and sloppy, meaning that unlike Rhaast it's a drawback to have your Q instead of just being "Oh, i don't get a buff on this, oh well.".

Because of this i want his Q to not be as "Limiting" for him, this way it has no changes in number's at all and is simply just not a hindrance to him anymore.

45 Comments

TheGoomyGamer17 votes

I love the idea that kayn gets the shadow on his Q. Maybe have darkin E scale with his HP or something to compensate?

SzGamer2278 votes

Darkin is already the stronger of the two forms. The extra compensation might not be necessary.

I do think it would be really cool for the shadow to cast Q2 though, and it makes perfect sense considering Shadow Assassin needs buffs.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Kayn's E needs buffs in all forms nor does Darkin form need any real buffs, though making the E not worthless would be better.

Shuyin1787 votes

The point of the ability differences is for them to get stuff for one ability while the other doesn't. Darkin gets his ability buff on Q already, so Kayn can't. And Kayn gets his ability buff on E already, so Darkin can't.

Zerenza8 votes

I mean...that's fair but if we think about it Rhaast get's more out of his ability buffs than Kayne does. I mean, Rhaast E or W aren't useless or hinder him in any way, but Shadow Assassin Kayne's Q hinder's his movement, making his assassin form a bit less satisfying and a bit restricting when normaly an assassin is not restricting(they almost never get locked into an animation).

Inting Pillow1 votes

Well all assassins do have a small one, Zed while teleporting to his w instantly, but that's not even noticeable and won't make any impact on your combo

Zerenza1 votes

Exactly, the most restricting animation i can think of right now for a real assassin is probably either Rengar leap or Kha'zix jump, the landing for kha'zix's jump can sometimes feel a little long and we all know why people really don't like Rengar's leap since his update.

Inting Pillow1 votes

Kha can actually use his Q midair... so even he gets compensation

MZ Steven YZ1 votes

only if you can jump pass the target to use Q, not when sometime your jump can't reach your target or land near the target, his jump its kind of slow sometime

Inting Pillow1 votes

I've used it mid air just before landing

Doozku1 votes

Rengar's leap is fine. It's the Q that's the problem.

I Main Swain6 votes

honestly imo they should have it so that all of his abilities have changes based on whether you get assassin or darkin, they should just make it so darkin is geared towards fighting and survivability/cc while assassin is geared more towards quick assassinations and mobility

SzGamer2272 votes

His two forms are already geared this way, just using the same abilities. Balancing one champion is hard enough, let along balancing three.

Karn Bishop5 votes

it does not need a double cast, just make it work like his W already does, he is a shadow assassin it makes sense for the ability to leave a shadow behind that does the attack in your stead.

Interestingly enough no other assassin in the game has an animation locked ability that locks them out of movement control in the way that kayn has it, i believe this is why he is so crap compared to other assassins because a skilled support or caitlyn will just wait until he starts Q then throw out their stun or trap knowing he cannot possibly avoid it given the animation lock.

Doozku1 votes

Rengar Q? I guess he's a diver now so nvm.

Karn Bishop1 votes

That's just travel time, once it reaches the end he instantly regains control over his movements where as kayn travels reaches the end then spends 1-3 seconds doing a fancy twirl with his scythe and only after the twirl animation is fully completed can you again move, this is also not mentioning how fast rengars gap closer is in comparison.

Doozku1 votes

We are talking about Rengar's Q, the swimming move, which locks him in an animation for quite some time. Not his leap.

Karn Bishop1 votes

I am aware, however it only traps him in it while moving though the air then lets him move again in the same way vi Q does, kayn ability travels like vi's Q now imagine after arriving at her location instead of being able to move and auto attack vi stood still for 1-2 seconds and did a spin dance animation then was allowed to move, please stop arguing on technicalities as the way movement is disabled or denied matters and rengar does not have the problem kayn has regarding this issue in either time spent in animation or time wasted after travel time ends.

chipndip14 votes

No.

Why?

Because Q is Darkin's "special move". See, both forms get a new W variant, Shadow Assassin gets a stronger E, and Rhaast gets a stronger Q. If SA got a bonus on Q, too, that'd be imbalanced, and you'd have to do something about Rhaast's E to rebalance it.

Wimbledofy3 votes

so? Darkin form is already stronger so Rhaasts E doesn't necessarily need a change since it wouldn't be rebalancing it. A change to Q in shadow form would be the change needed to balance it out between the 2 forms. It doesn't make sense for an assassin to be restricted by his own ability.

Éthàn2 votes

This change would make me hyperventilate in happiness. bby kayn

Siegfriedx12 votes

do it for rakan too

SweedishGunner1 votes

?

Siegfriedx11 votes

You press W once to jump and W twice to knock up

SweedishGunner1 votes

God that'd be strong.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

no just make rakan autos treated as melee to use item 3401 better and we cool

Cowseed2 votes

I think these buffs are gonna open a can of worms tbh. He's not strong but he's not weak either. People seem to forget that he can be an assassin and if he's buffed to the point he's brain-dead he's going to just be a pick and play assassin and lord knows you people aren't gentle on those.

Grjjm Reaper2 votes

I like double cast, or maybe After Dashing on it enemy, click it again to cast spin.

  • Increase Dash by 1.75 meters
  • Increase Spin radious by 1.00 meters
  • Decrease Damage by 10 in Rhaast Form
  • Increase damage by 20 in Shadow Kayn Form
  • let it act like Hecarim Q and gain half it's c back when spamming it
  • allow it kayns untransformed passive have him gain triple the orbs if he kills a range, -or- melee champion (quicker transformations especially when jungling)
Sad Tyrant3 votes

please use the standard measurements

In Australia we use the Metric system

In USA, the Imperial system is used

In LoL, we use the Unit system, where 100 units is one Teemo

Ionian Vulpix2 votes

No. The drawback to the dash attack is having to commit to the followup spin.

Zerenza5 votes

Well, there lies an issue, for a "Fighter" such as Rhaast, it makes sense for his dash to take time to complete, but for an assassin you really shouldn't be locked into an animation. The reason why is because, unlike Rhaast, Kayn is squishy and he needs to be able to do these things that assassin all do.

  1. Chase, he can't be slowed down or forced to sit in one place.
  2. Escape(he has this)
  3. Survivability(He has this.)

The thing with kayn is due to the limitations his Q set on him, he can't reliably chase a target, no other assassin is locked into the animation of their dash/blink, the reason why is because for them reaction speed is extremely important and they can't be forced to sit still and wait for an animation to end. Katarina sit's still in her ultimate but at any time you can cancel it by pressing any other ability or a movement command. This isn't true for kayn, unlike other assassins his Q prevents his movement and makes him sit still for about .75 seconds during the animation for his Spin at the end, this gives his opponent WAY more time than usual to get away by, usually, simply walking away. Most assassins give about 1-3 seconds of time for the target to react, but for kayn it's almost double the time. This makes his assassin form ineffective.

Ionian Vulpix2 votes

The Q hits twice, both on the dash and the spin. Ideally, you should be aiming it so you hit with the spin afterwards. Doesn't Shadow W slow targets?

Zerenza1 votes

It slows on all forms but that' not really relevant. This thing is that his Q still locks him in place after the dash, the spin by itself takes a full second, during which time you could be auto attacking to get use out of your Passive. The opponent can already flash his W, heal or sheild for his R or simply see him coming from his E. His Q makes it even easier because it's one of your 2 abilities that actually deals good damage yet you can't move during it so your opponent can dash, flash or blink away from you with ease, they can also CC lock and chain you because, again you can't move during this animation and it severely hinder's his ability to assassinate because of it.

MonkeyMadness2 votes

Right, because a guy that can WALK THROUGH WALLS FOR UP TO 10 SECONDS WITH +70% BONUS MOVESPEED WITH SLOW IMMUNITY needs more mobility.

Wimbledofy2 votes

he has very little mobility. Q isn't really a mobility spell. It's like a kalista hop without the ranged attack attached to it and then has a mini self cc at the end. Also his E can only last up to 1.5 seconds while in combat.

MonkeyMadness1 votes

The Q can easily be used to dodge most if not all skill shots (maybe ezreal ult is big enough that he can't completely get out of the way of a well placed one). And he has incredible mobility. While the E is primarily out-of-combat mobility, you really can't give champs in-combat and out-of-combat mobility or they end up being ridiculous (ie pre rift limp kassadin).

Shadow Hazard1 votes

As nice as it would be, when the changes come out for allowing the assassin form to be able to amplify the damage of items also, it will be HUGE.

Gubaguy1 votes

Better idea, based on the Netheurgist from Battle for graxia (RIP, was a pretty good game til the devs ditched it and let it die), Netheurgist had an ability where he throws a spike in a direction dealing damage to all it hit (and leaving a poison trail), and at any time during the throw he could reactivate and instantlyt TP to the spike ending its duration.

Do that, but with kayns shadow form scythe, it woudl give him some amount of ranged harrass, hell, do it to his Q in normal mode, then in darken remove it for the dash, and then increase its rage for assassin form.

Done.

starelementpoke1 votes

Wait, it's been only like, a week or something. Why are we buffing him already?

inplane2 votes

{quoted}

Wait, it's been only like, a week or something. Why are we buffing him already?

People are impulsive. I think we all should learn from the past that it's better to wait at least a month before deciding buffs or nerfs.

starelementpoke1 votes

{quoted}

People are impulsive. I think we all should learn from the past that it's better to wait at least a month before deciding buffs or nerfs.

Please do wait, considering what happened to Ivern, with the only difference being I actually like Ivern as opposed to Kayn.

Zerenza2 votes

Well the reason why he's getting buffed(his buffs are nothing compared to ivern's btw) is because, similar to ivern his winrate is absolutely trash in both forms. What makes it worse though is that both forms are shit but darkin is the better shit, which means there's no reason to use his assassin form and more over, his assassin form doesn't "Feel" as good due to the limitations to his Q. The thing with it is that many would say "But SA Kayn can't have changes on his Q, Darkin doesn't have Changes on his E.", well yes that's true but the thing is that Darkin's E is still extremely powerful and useful, it doesn't hinder him in any way, but for SA Kayn, the limitations of his Q keep his assassin form feeling rather lack luster because of the animation lock. This isn't really a buff i'm suggestion because it litterally wouldn't change any of his number just increase his mobility because he wouldn't be lock in an animation anymore.

PBE Buff: R Scaling 120%-150%(it litterally did shit for damage before this buff, i mean squish target's would take 80 damage at times.)

starelementpoke1 votes

{quoted}

Well the reason why he's getting buffed(his buffs are nothing compared to ivern's btw) is because, similar to ivern his winrate is absolutely trash in both forms. What makes it worse though is that both forms are shit but darkin is the better shit, which means there's no reason to use his assassin form and more over, his assassin form doesn't "Feel" as good due to the limitations to his Q. The thing with it is that many would say "But SA Kayn can't have changes on his Q, Darkin doesn't have Changes on his E.", well yes that's true but the thing is that Darkin's E is still extremely powerful and useful, it doesn't hinder him in any way, but for SA Kayn, the limitations of his Q keep his assassin form feeling rather lack luster because of the animation lock. This isn't really a buff i'm suggestion because it litterally wouldn't change any of his number just increase his mobility because he wouldn't be lock in an animation anymore.

PBE Buff: R Scaling 120%-150%(it litterally did shit for damage before this buff, i mean squish target's would take 80 damage at times.)

If the assassin forms needs buff to be able to assassinate, that's cool. But again, it's literally only been about a weekish. It just seems a bit quick.

Evil Yasuo1 votes

tbh surprisingly I like being together. I'd change a lot about kayn but I really like the gap closer with spin.

SolarisCorvus1 votes

i like the shadow doing the spin suggestion. makes it seem more smooth without need for double cast.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Zerenza

I'm so sick and tired of Nasus existing.
Gameplay127 comments
82
votes
Why aren't more items Melee only.
Gameplay107 comments
78
votes
What if Tiamat built into an AP item?
Gameplay152 comments
78
votes
Soooooo when we getting Twitch Nerfs?
Gameplay49 comments
61
votes
The ADC role is the only role where 95% of games have one class in said role.
Gameplay104 comments
59
votes
Riot, you want buff lux?
Gameplay48 comments
55
votes