I thought Yasuo was suppose to be a weak early strong late game hyper carry?

xxxMadLionxxx·Nov 18, 2018·3 votes·1,207 views

Cause, he isn't weak early anymore. He seems fairly strong at all stages of the game while becoming incredibly tanky late game for a champ that build full AD. His passive shield can grant him almost 1000 hp if he ults at the right moment plus 400hp from. Not to mentio 12% damage reduction from while dealing tons of true damage from conqueror and . The True damage complete bypasses any armor along with his armor pen from his ult making the armor from completely useless (and I thought the armor from was supposed to help against AD champs).

Am I missing something here?

9 Comments

Who Fed RuNov 18, 20181 votes

He was never supposed to have a bad lane.

He has a huge powerhole in mid game tho

Lil Homie bustaNov 18, 20181 votes

Having a bad lane =/= being weak early.

He's supposed to have a weak early but a decent and safe lane due to his Q range and Windwall.

Who Fed RuNov 18, 20181 votes

early game is lane phase

Lil Homie bustaNov 18, 20181 votes

Yeah, but lane phase is different from lane or laning:

lane phase is a time interval. lane or laning is how you champ goes through this time interval. Having a bad lane or laning doesn't necessarily means your champion is weak early or has a bad lane phase.

e.g.: Riven has a good lane phase, she is strong early, but she doesn't have a good laning against Garen, despite being strong early.

In your first post, you said that he wasn't supposed to have a bad lane, which is right if the Yasuo is decent. But the OP talked about him being strong early, which is a different thing and he shouldn't be, due to his high scaling and poor base stats.

SEKAINov 18, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vsTeIE9j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-18T16:26:14.685+0000)

He was never supposed to have a bad lane.

He has a huge powerhole in mid game tho

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Yasuo/Development

**Gameplay **

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d4/Yasuo_Screenshots.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131216143716

Yasuo's a sustained damage fighter with high mobility, strong utility, and damage output that ramps up the longer he survives in combat. The tradeoff here comes in the form of low damage during Yasuo's early game.

[...]

That is literally the very first line and the executive summary of the design/development vision of the champion.

The rest of the it goes on to describe Yasuo's early game as if it's clearly meant to be bad.

Such as the very next paragraph that follows after the above quoted section

Mid lane

Yasuo's early game **fragility **makes him a champion best suited for the shortest lane on Summoner's Rift: mid. He farms safest here, concentrating on building up his experience and gold as he itemizes his way to domination. But even though Yasuo is at his weakest in the early game, his strength and mobility still has the potential to surprise (not defeat, surprise; it clearly indicates fighting from an underpowering position) his enemies.

This is all within the very first few lines of the development note on Yasuo's gameplay, and so far every single line screams that Yasuo is meant to be weak in early game.

No amount of rationalisation is going to hide that fact Yasuo is SUPPOSED to be weak early, and he is clearly NOT being that. And he can't be, because his kit by its 'feature-creeping central' design makes sure that basically can't happen to the vast majority of matchups unless Yasuo has the trashiest base stat imaginable.

And that's why Yasuo as a design is busted.

Lil Homie bustaNov 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Cause, he isn't weak early anymore.

It's kinda of true, I agree with you. Chrysalis and Bone Plating makes him stronger than he should be early. The 8.6 Ignite buff didn't help neither by making him even stronger early.

{quoted}

His passive shield can grant him almost 1000 hp if he ults at the right moment plus 400hp from.

But that's just exaggeration. His shield is 510 at level 18, and it scales exponentially, meaning that for the most of the game, it's around 200~300, and since it lasts just 1 second, it doesn't block that much, unless he's taking a lot of burst, which he's weak against anyways.

{quoted}

The True damage complete bypasses any armor along with his armor pen from his ult making the armor from item 3157 completely useless (and I thought the armor from was supposed to help against AD champs).

He's not a unusual AD champion. He's a sustained physical damage champ, and ADC if you prefer. He was made to cut down anything, that's a ADC thing. I would recommend you building health against him, like item 3027 , item 3116 or item 3165 ; cuz he'll be forced to build item 3153 , and then he won't have item 3072 's shield.

SEKAINov 18, 20181 votes

According to lolalytics, Yasuo's win rate vs game length features a M-graph, where his win rate is high at both the beginning of the game and the end of it, while his mid-game is where his win rate takes most of the tank.

This is very easy to see why, because Yasuo's kit makes sure he has one of the highest possible damage scaling in the entire game (passive, Q, R) so that naturally makes him super strong in late game, no questions there, but also because the fact his kit is also a combination of both low-CD infinite range poke (or just low-0 CD in general), infinite in-lane mobility, windwall on a basic ability slot that blocks most of the spells in the entire game and with a completely broken coding that blocks shit even if Yasuo is ALREADY HIT by the attack and even if the wall is shot in the COMPLETELY WRONG direction of the incoming attack, in-lane poke immunity, free turret dive safety net in R because reasons that Yasuo is exempted from taking actual risks when diving (oh wait, Akali too, another CertainlyT champion. Oh gee, Zoe has that as well after 6, too! You seeing the fucking pattern yet?), 0 resource cost and other reasons contributing to his infinite in-lane sustain, extreme waveclear, extreme zoning potential after 6, and power spike into his "late game" from 1 finish item and possibly the cheapest first finished item there is in the entire game....... And anyone wonder why his M-curve win rate vs game length happens? Or anyone is trying to defend that this isn't the case for the longest time already?

I mean, what was Riot even thinking with a champion with an insanely overloaded and weirdly budgeted kit like that, that it's going to have a bad early? Did they really think a kit filled to the brim with free utility at absolute 0 cost nor barely any downtime whatsoever that conveniently has a monstrous high scaling factor, is really going to have a standard power curve of a hypercarry?

Well, maybe that might actually happen if Yasuo is actually forced to interact with their opponent in early game with his lowered base stats. But as it stands, he doesn't need to at all because he just spams from range like Ryze except without the extreme early-game mana gating, while sporting infinite times more mobility in lane and 10x the early-game waveclear power as well as having the shield being free. So i gotta ask, what did they think was going to happen?

PhieldworkerNov 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

According to lolalytics, Yasuo's win rate vs game length features a M-graph, where his win rate is high at both the beginning of the game and the end of it, while his mid-game is where his win rate takes most of the tank.

This is very easy to see why, because Yasuo's kit makes sure he has one of the highest possible damage scaling in the entire game (passive, Q, R) so that naturally makes him super strong in late game, no questions there, but also because the fact his kit is also a combination of both low-CD infinite range poke (or just low-0 CD in general), infinite in-lane mobility, windwall on a basic ability slot that blocks most of the spells in the entire game and with a completely broken coding that blocks shit even if Yasuo is ALREADY HIT by the attack and even if the wall is shot in the COMPLETELY WRONG direction of the incoming attack, in-lane poke immunity, free turret dive safety net in R because reasons that Yasuo is exempted from taking actual risks when diving (oh wait, Akali too, another CertainlyT champion. Oh gee, Zoe has that as well after 6, too! You seeing the fucking pattern yet?), 0 resource cost and other reasons contributing to his infinite in-lane sustain, extreme waveclear, extreme zoning potential after 6, and power spike into his "late game" from 1 finish item and possibly the cheapest first finished item there is in the entire game....... And anyone wonder why his M-curve win rate vs game length happens? Or anyone is trying to defend that this isn't the case for the longest time already?

I mean, what was Riot even thinking with a champion with an insanely overloaded and weirdly budgeted kit like that, that it's going to have a bad early? Did they really think a kit filled to the brim with free utility at absolute 0 cost nor barely any downtime whatsoever that conveniently has a monstrous high scaling factor, is really going to have a standard power curve of a hypercarry?

Well, maybe that might actually happen if Yasuo is actually forced to interact with their opponent in early game with his lowered base stats. But as it stands, he doesn't need to at all because he just spams from range like Ryze except without the extreme early-game mana gating, while sporting infinite times more mobility in lane and 10x the early-game waveclear power as well as having the shield being free. So i gotta ask, what did they think was going to happen?

I think mid game Yasuo tanks a little because people may get kill happy.

SEKAINov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think mid game Yasuo tanks a little because people may get kill happy.

I still think his mid-dip is still something, that to some extent (get to this later), innate to Yasuo. Because mid-game is the game of "catching out" in general and small scale jungle roams, which Yasuo isn't good at it due to not having use-able units all around him and at all times that allows him to Q and E endlessly. He would pick up the power again later in late because of both his scaling and the fact late-game is about sieging (back to lanes).

Yasuo is definitely weaker in mid-game. But it's not some kind of the lowest point of any champ, because he is still sporting sort of average win rate even in his weakest moment in mid-game, but the contrast is more pronounced especially when you scale it against the kind of nonsensical power he has in laning and late-game. He's just weak in mid-game when you COMPARE IT WITH HIMSELF and his other blatantly overpowered game phases; and that's pretty bunkers, it's like the good ol' Lee Sin back when he was OP as shit, where Lee Sin then only ever "fell off" with respect to himself and not that he actually fell off to be capitalised on by his opponent because he still was sitting on average win rate even in the phase when he'd supposed "fell off".

That said, all Yasuo players need to do in mid-game is to just play around objectives and push lanes during mid-game and he would still stay super strong in mid-game regardless. And that's where your mention of "kill happy" comes in. Essentially, his mid-game weakness is easily mitigated by a significant portion by the player; or in other words, almost optional. And to utilise the Lee Sin example again: At least even in his most broken moments, at least his "falling off" was actually unavoidable to his players as per the fact enemy positions wouldn't be as predictable as in early game; meanwhile it's actually totally avoidable for Yasuo if he just sticks to splitpushing and roam less in mid-game.

Yasuo is just absolute bananas in terms of design.