Boards›Gameplay

@Meddler I want you to justify ADCs in your own words.

Niyumi··8 votes·576 views

Title. You talk so much about balance, how you want the game to be fair for everyone, yet I see a lot of pandering to the easiest champs in the game (ADCs).

So, I want you to, in your own words, justify ADCs having the highest burst and sustained damage in the game, the highest sustain (higher than Vlad and WOTA literally ever had, yet he was nerfed for it), more range than a good portion of the roster, 40% armor pen on top of all the other armor pen they get through masteries and runes (rendering tanks moot), an item for literally any situation, and all that.

Why does the easiest class with the most diverse item set and least counterplay get rewarded more than anyone else? They have no real weakness outside of CC -- but then, if a champ is so absurdly strong that the only way to even fight them is to render them unable to fight, don't you think that maybe something is wrong?

So, I wanna hear how you justify that.

19 Comments

DestructoDave6 votes

Lol most diverse item set? I swear, you can easily tell who actually plays some of these champions and who don't before they come and whine. And, how about prefacing it with Vayne, and to an extent, Twitch.

And they are far from the easiest class.

Lets see; just about every ADC goes the exact same build every game. You get 3 crit items. You are lucky if you even get to have lifesteal in the builds anymore. You rely on masteries for that. Because most of the time, you need an LW by the time you get your 3rd crit item, and possibly need a Maw to survive the AP mage burst that will kill you. Its rare to even see a bloodthirster anymore, and you MIGHT see a Mercurial sometimes. The vast majority of builds ONLY vary depending on if you get essence reaver or a zeal item. By the time you complete a LW, the game is pretty much nearly over with how fast they go nowadays.

Yes, ADCs have high sustained damage; thats their niche. They have mostly low utility, and MOST of them have low burst outside of full crit builds 35-40 minutes into the game, with exceptions like Vayne and Twitch, which are overtuned atm. Esp. Vayne.

And again, very few render tanks moot. Most can easily get solo'd out by a tank for the vast majority of the game. All the way up to full item builds depending on the ADCs, with again, champs like Vayne breaking the mold.

People need to start realizing not all ADCs are created equal. Most actually take more than 2 items to shred your team. So, start making Vayne cry threads and stop making ADC cry threads, when you know full well that Lucian/Jhin/Ashe/Jinx gets mowed down by tanks and bruisers for the vast majority of the game.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

While I agree with everything you said, we don't need any more Vayne QQ threads. For the love of God keep those off the boards now.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

Lol most diverse item set?

AP team? You have 15 items for that.

Bursty team? You have 15 items for that.

Need sustain? Lifesteal is on half the items.

Need to kite? We got you covered.

Need to fight tanks? You got items for that!

Need more range? We got you!

Need waveclear / AoE? We have that too!

They literally have an item for every situation, and an item to get out of every fuck up they could get into.

And they are far from the easiest class.

Automatically-aimed, unmissable, resourceless attacks that automatically fire off more than twice a second at extreme range with no drawback, risk, or effort involved. The highest sustain and damage in the game, and literally no counterplay.

I'm sorry, how is that not easy?

Lets see; just about every ADC goes the exact same build every game. You get 3 crit items. You are lucky if you even get to have lifesteal in the builds anymore. You rely on masteries for that. Because most of the time, you need an LW by the time you get your 3rd crit item, and possibly need a Maw to survive the AP mage burst that will kill you. Its rare to even see a bloodthirster anymore, and you MIGHT see a Mercurial sometimes. The vast majority of builds ONLY vary depending on if you get essence reaver or a zeal item. By the time you complete a LW, the game is pretty much nearly over with how fast they go nowadays.

IE/ER > Zeal item > LW > Lifesteal item > Utility item. Pretty standard unless you're stacking Zeal items.

Yes, ADCs have high sustained damage; thats their niche. They have mostly low utility, and MOST of them have low burst outside of full crit builds 35-40 minutes into the game, with exceptions like Vayne and Twitch, which are overtuned atm. Esp. Vayne.

Most of them have low burst, yet most of them can kill me within 2 seconds at 20 minutes? Okay.

And again, very few render tanks moot. Most can easily get solo'd out by a tank for the vast majority of the game. All the way up to full item builds depending on the ADCs, with again, champs like Vayne breaking the mold.

The only one I can think of that doesn't just absolutely destroy tanks is maybe Sivir. Tristana maybe.

People need to start realizing not all ADCs are created equal. Most actually take more than 2 items to shred your team. So, start making Vayne cry threads and stop making ADC cry threads, when you know full well that Lucian/Jhin/Ashe/Jinx gets mowed down by tanks and bruisers for the vast majority of the game.

Hey, newsflash, ADCs are SUPPOSED to be mowed down if you can reach them. That is their "justification" for being weak, yet lifesteal and crit make that a lie.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

AP team? You have 15 items for that.

Bursty team? You have 15 items for that.

Need sustain? Lifesteal is on half the items.

Need to kite? We got you covered.

Need to fight tanks? You got items for that!

Need more range? We got you!

Need waveclear / AoE? We have that too!

They literally have an item for every situation, and an item to get out of every fuck up they could get into.

Automatically-aimed, unmissable, resourceless attacks that automatically fire off more than twice a second at extreme range with no drawback, risk, or effort involved. The highest sustain and damage in the game, and literally no counterplay.

I'm sorry, how is that not easy?

IE/ER > Zeal item > LW > Lifesteal item > Utility item. Pretty standard unless you're stacking Zeal items.

Most of them have low burst, yet most of them can kill me within 2 seconds at 20 minutes? Okay.

The only one I can think of that doesn't just absolutely destroy tanks is maybe Sivir. Tristana maybe.

Hey, newsflash, ADCs are SUPPOSED to be mowed down if you can reach them. That is their "justification" for being weak, yet lifesteal and crit make that a lie.

what 15 items? please tell me what 15 items ADCs have against AP teams also tell me what 15 items they have for bursty teams and lifesteal is on half the items? so crit items have lifesteal now? how do items have kiting covered? you mean Frozen Mallet? yeah you get ONE item to fight tanks, ONE item to get more range, ONE item that helps with waveclear and you have to choose between them!

Sorry but what? you are whining about auto attacks now? also more than twice per second? what are the ADCs building in your games? nothing but attack speed items? no risk? no effort? please do you even play ADC? you clearly do not! the instant you are out of position you are done! your range means NOTHING at that point!

no, no, no and more no! pretty standard maybe 2 seasons ago! you have to choose now between a lifesteal item or something else. You get 3 crit items now not 2.

How are they killing you in less than 2 seconds at 20 mins? are they fed? are you low? are you a squishy champion? ADCs cannot kill you that fast that soon unless they are fed! in which case ANY champion will destroy you that fast as well not just ADCs! unless you were at less than 50% HP in which case you have no one but yourself to blame!

Ashe cannot kill tanks, MF cannot kill tanks, Lucian cannot kill tanks, Ezreal cannot kill tanks, Corki cannot kill tanks, neither can Varus, Sivir or Tristana. Any tank worth a damn will eat any of these champions or simply run away before any of these ADCs even stand a chance of killing them.

Learn to actually play against them instead of whining and making terrible, terrible, absolutely terrible biased and WRONG opinions

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Funny you mention Tristana, as OP does play her often.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

what 15 items? please tell me what 15 items ADCs have against AP teams also tell me what 15 items they have for bursty teams and lifesteal is on half the items? so crit items have lifesteal now? how do items have kiting covered? you mean Frozen Mallet? yeah you get ONE item to fight tanks, ONE item to get more range, ONE item that helps with waveclear and you have to choose between them!

Maw, Mercurial, Edge, GA -- anti-MR.

Sterak's, BC, Frozen, GA -- anti-burst

Sorry but what? you are whining about auto attacks now? also more than twice per second? what are the ADCs building in your games? nothing but attack speed items? no risk? no effort? please do you even play ADC? you clearly do not! the instant you are out of position you are done! your range means NOTHING at that point!

You die the instant you're out of position? No, not really. Especially considering nearly every ADC has some mobility, CC or both.

How are they killing you in less than 2 seconds at 20 mins? are they fed? are you low? are you a squishy champion? ADCs cannot kill you that fast that soon unless they are fed! in which case ANY champion will destroy you that fast as well not just ADCs! unless you were at less than 50% HP in which case you have no one but yourself to blame!

When you auto for 600 twice a second, you kill any squishy in 3 autos, and any tank in 6-8. Squishy is dead in <2s, tank is dead in <3s.

Ashe cannot kill tanks, MF cannot kill tanks, Lucian cannot kill tanks, Ezreal cannot kill tanks, Corki cannot kill tanks, neither can Varus, Sivir or Tristana. Any tank worth a damn will eat any of these champions or simply run away before any of these ADCs even stand a chance of killing them.

Ashe... can't kill tanks? Ha! Hahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAH! Funny joke.

The only champ in that list that can't melt tanks is Sivir, and maybe Tristana. The rest absolutely laugh at any armor you build, and just shred you anyway.

Learn to actually play against them instead of whining and making terrible, terrible, absolutely terrible biased and WRONG opinions

Tell me how you play against auto-targeted attacks that literally cannot miss or be stopped outside of Braum / Yas / Jax / Teemo.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Ahri Ult + Charm + full combo = dead with no chance for them to retaliate.

Aatrox Jump on them, ult, E, Auto twice with blood price on, they're dead.

Akali Look at them funny. They die.

Alistar Head butt into your team. They die.

Amumu Has a passive that does flat physical damage reduction. Not to mention Q+Ult = sitting duck adc.

Anivia Well R-E doesn't instakill anymore, but I'm sure a well placed wall/Q will impede their efforts. Not to mention that when they're close enough to auto you can summon a snowstorm and dps them down if not outright kill them. Either way her passive is a lifesaver.

Annie Ult Stun. E>Q They're dead.

AurelionSol Harder, but a lane-sized Q can't miss. And his stars hurt. interestingly his outer radius is around an ADC's auto range.

Azir Shurima shuffle them into your team. They die.

Bard Gift wrap them for your team in gold foil.

Blitzcrank Grab that booty.

Brand I've killed many ADCs that thought they could 1v1 me.

Need any more examples? this is just the first row of champs from the boards list.

Niyumi1 votes

You assume they got the jump on the ADC though. What if the ADC got the jump on them? They instantly win. Ahri would be half health before she even started her combo.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Half health != dead.

She could kill the ADC at 1 HP simply because her combo with Charm gives no opportunities for the ADC to retaliate.

Niyumi1 votes

This thing called Mercurial exists.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Maw, Mercurial, Edge, GA -- anti-MR.

Sterak's, BC, Frozen, GA -- anti-burst

You die the instant you're out of position? No, not really. Especially considering nearly every ADC has some mobility, CC or both.

When you auto for 600 twice a second, you kill any squishy in 3 autos, and any tank in 6-8. Squishy is dead in <2s, tank is dead in <3s.

Ashe... can't kill tanks? Ha! Hahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAH! Funny joke.

The only champ in that list that can't melt tanks is Sivir, and maybe Tristana. The rest absolutely laugh at any armor you build, and just shred you anyway.

Tell me how you play against auto-targeted attacks that literally cannot miss or be stopped outside of Braum / Yas / Jax / Teemo.

4 = 15 now? great math! also you can only afford to have one in your build which is usually Maw or Mercurial

outside of BC which is built on very specific ADCs none of those items are built on ADCs.... if you are building GA to defend against burst you are going to have a terrible time.

yes you do and nearly every ADC has CC or mobility? please you aren't even trying anymore. The amount of CC ADCs have is extremely low and is usually tied to their ults or a very easily dodgeable trap. Mobility? other than Lucian, Ezreal and Kalista every single other ADC that has 'mobility' is tied to a very strict condition. Hell the only CC that MF has is a slow and her mobility goes poof the instant even a minion touches her.

Ashe cannot kill tanks and neither do most ADCs. Stop trying to put your garbage tanks that even a support auto attacking them would be able to kill them. But sure keep telling yourself that an ADC is melting tanks without it being fed or being extremely late into the game.

You want to know how to deal with auto attacks? engage! flank! get a damn thornmail! get a damn Frozen Heart, get a damn Randuin's. Stop being bad and actually learn to play against them. If you engage them they will die! and by engage i don't mean you throwing your one body against their entire team in the hopes of getting to their ADC.

Taliyah Rocks2 votes

Nah it's just Vayne that's OP as sh*t.

Otherwise the ADC class is fine imho.

Edit: Vayne kinda breaks the meta (Or any meta) because she's supposed to be a tank melter, but she melts EVERYTHING instead. F*ck Riot.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

lol is there anything that riot does that you dont complain about?

you have made post regarding every type of champ and how they are broken or unfair

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

But...

You play Tristana...

Niyumi1 votes

I play just about every champ in the game. Doesn't mean I think they're fair or balanced in any way.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

So why do you play them, might I ask? Half the champion types you complain about you play, and call the others broken and no skill when you play them yourself.

Niyumi1 votes

Because, unfortunately, that's how F2P games are designed: You either play the whale-approved money makers, or you lose -- simple as that. So, if I want to ever win, I have to play champs that feel unfair to play, and really don't feel satisfying or rewarding.

Such is modern gaming.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

You're being ridiculous. I play plenty of champs that aren't "whale approved" and win with them.

Please consider the fact that maybe you're at your destined elo. Gold.

I'm happy at Silver for now, but I'll climb. In the meantime stop thinking the entire world and Riot is against you because you can't win a game without playing the so-called easy champs.

Have you considered that different people find different champs easy? I for example find Fiora easy for some wierd reason, despite her being infamous for taking a lot of mechanical skill to play.

I find Ashe and Ryze really hard to play, despite their relatively simple kits. (Not really Ryze anymore, but just saying)

These champs that you find easy, have you considered that perhaps they just click with your playstyle? That you find them easy because they mesh well with you? Your enjoyment of them notwithstanding, there is a reason you have been drawn to them, and it isn't just to win.

Niyumi1 votes

I do not enjoy ADCs outside of Jhin, Trist and sometimes Jinx -- yet I own all of them and play them frequently and win with little to no effort.

I do not enjoy Annie, yet I have rank 7 on her and play her if I'm tilted and just want a free win.

I do not enjoy Jax, yet I absolutely stomp games with him and play him for only that reason.

I do enjoy Taliyah, yet she's outclassed by most midlaners.

I do enjoy Poppy, but I fall off late game and can't do anything without a team (unlike Jax and other champs).

I do enjoy GP, but he is the subject of constant nerfs, and is now really weak top lane.

My playstyle doesn't exist in this game. Riven is close, but she still feels wonky. The easy champs are easy because they're just easy, no other reason than that. If I can just click on someone and instantly blow them up while CCing them the whole time, that's not really fun, and I don't feel good after that, it's just a free win. I usually insist on not playing champs like that, but I'm starting to just give up. I spent 4,000 games in silver because of that.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Niyumi

So um... remind me how Akali is, IN ANY WAY, fair.
Gameplay201 comments
138
votes
"Vayne was struggling"
Gameplay120 comments
78
votes
So, you know Rito...
Gameplay59 comments
52
votes
A request from a fill main.
Gameplay46 comments
49
votes
Hey Riot, when's the next happy champion coming?
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous95 comments
47
votes
After four THOUSAND games...
Gameplay72 comments
33
votes