Demolish is getting removed right?

Xavanic··2 votes·1,777 views

this rune is not good for the game, keep bone plating and remove this please, sick of it

12 Comments

Paroe2 votes

It... IS good for the game. It gives tanks the ability to take objectives in a reasonable time frame, which opens up the game for more map pressure and speeds the game up.

If youre angry at it, why dont you just play a champion who pushes faster than the bruiser who you lost against?

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

It... IS good for the game. It gives tanks the ability to take objectives in a reasonable time frame, which opens up the game for more map pressure and speeds the game up.

If youre angry at it, why dont you just play a champion who pushes faster than the bruiser who you lost against?

No actually its not good for the game

Farix2 votes

Why not? The only champion it's truly ridiculous on is sion. You shouldn't remove an option from every champion in the game because one champion is ridiculous with it. Bone plating is arguably worse for the game as a rune because it's super valuable on every champion, to the point that a lot of people take resolve rather than a "better" rune set simply because bone plating gives so much survivability.

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sylven the Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vmO57dEQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T07:11:15.303+0000)

Why not? The only champion it's truly ridiculous on is sion. You shouldn't remove an option from every champion in the game because one champion is ridiculous with it. Bone plating is arguably worse for the game as a rune because it's super valuable on every champion, to the point that a lot of people take resolve rather than a "better" rune set simply because bone plating gives so much survivability.

I find it really, really, really funny that people think shield bash wont be busted on marksmen. Overheal/BT+shield bash = always proc it.

Farix2 votes

You're completely ignoring Demolish now, but okay.

It's actually pretty difficult to make use of Overheal on a marksman early in the game without a champion that heals for tons in a single go, like Bard or Soraka. It's nearly impossible in a lane with lots of poke or aggression, like Jhin, MF, Morgana, Bard, etc.. No Marksman builds Bloodthirster early (or should, outside of Draven) so that's a good portion of the game it isn't being used in that way. This does introduce the possibility of rushing an early bloodthirster on champs that normally wouldn't take it at all, but remember: Bloodthirster's stats don't actually offer much to almost any marksman's kit early on. It's much better to start stacking crit items beforehand, so that bloodthirster has more value when you get it. So let's say somebody rushes bloodthirster to get easy overshields for the shield bash proc. Since they don't have nearly as much attack speed, there's no way they'll be able to heal up to the overshield in the midst of a fight to get the constant procs. In fact, their lack of dps because of bloodthirster only offering its flat AD to damage, shield bash would then be trying to make up for the difference in dps, which is very difficult to do since it's not a giant on-hit effect, and it doesn't hit every auto attack, just every auto after your shield is gone and you get a new one. So if somebody doesn't manage to penetrate your overshield, you're not getting new procs unless you let it fade (which takes longer than it does to lose cs when you have lifesteal).

Also, it scales with only your health, so the damage proc won't even be that much. trying to build around Shield Bash on a marksman is just inefficient because there are no marksman items that give you bonus health early on aside from black cleaver and frozen mallet, and the health is the only thing in black cleaver giving you the synergy with the focus on shield bash, so... that's inefficient too. You might argue that the armor shred helps with lifestealing, but now you need black cleaver, and lifesteal, forcing you into blade of the ruined king to get the attack speed marksman MUST have.

Worst case scenario for marksman, you'll see tons of wonky builds that work weirdly well, but building around shield bash will require sacrificing so much dps that they won't be playing like a real marksman until very, very late in the game, or getting no benefit from shield bash until very, very late in the game at which point the miniscule damage from its scaling will make it negligible anyways. The only champ I see this maybe being a problem for is Draven because of the value he can pull from overheal and bloodthirster early on, and his ability to manipulate the timing of his receiving damage compared to when he dishes it out. But you know, everyone knew Kleptomancy was going to be absolutely ridiculous on a bunch of champions, but nerfing them in the proper ways brought them in line without having to do much about balancing klepto. It'll probably be the same deal with this, and it'll almost certainly be the same deal with the new Dark Harvest.

Xavanic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sylven the Thief,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vmO57dEQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T07:11:15.303+0000)

Why not? The only champion it's truly ridiculous on is sion. You shouldn't remove an option from every champion in the game because one champion is ridiculous with it. Bone plating is arguably worse for the game as a rune because it's super valuable on every champion, to the point that a lot of people take resolve rather than a "better" rune set simply because bone plating gives so much survivability.

ive been seeing a lot of full tank teams lately, and there is nothing we can do, defensive items are stronger then offensive items early game to mid game, now you would think there is a downside...there isn't...and now they want to give tanks more dmg?

Farix1 votes

Just build the proper anti-tank items and group. A full bruiser team might win fights when both sides start at full health, but that's why champions like Brand, Xerath, Caitlyn, Veigar, and Ashe exist. So that the opposing side doesn't get to engage with their whole team at full health. Also build the appropriate anti-tank items. You're not trying to compete with huge burst, just dps and durability. Grievous wounds for regenerators, Liandry's and BotRK for huge beefy dudes, Void Staff/Last Whisper. One thing I've done that works hilariously well is to do bruiser builds on non-bruisers with some penetration, rather than raw damage with penetration. Once, when faced against a full tank team, I actually did a tanky Kindred build (largely because I had Grasp by accident) and it was mindblowingly effective. Other champs that would just be really, really good for an anti-tank comp are Graves, Vayne, Malzahar, Kog'Maw, and twitch, mages with big aoe cc like Veigar, Brand (the fear of a team of tanks having to deal with an endless brand ult is both hilarious and effective enough to count), Orianna, Bard, and of course, your own tanks/bruisers that are good against tanks, like Maokai, Darius, Gnar, Vi, Fiora, and Urgot. Don't make your goal just to try to dish out as much damage as you can, you also want to be able to survive them. Tanks will win longer fights because their durability allows them to get multiple ability rotations. You just need to be able to live long enough to get the same number of attacks/ability rotations, and your kit's built in dps should do the rest.

Or you can just play champs like jinx, Quinn, and Tryndamere that can fly around the map and push lanes/force objectives faster than a team of tanks can respond to, and deny them the 5v5 fights they want.

The Bad Touch2 votes

Demolish is getting buffed from 4 second channel to 3.

Also shield champs are getting buffed.

China likes Sion a lot.

Xavanic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vmO57dEQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-04T06:36:40.825+0000)

Demolish is getting buffed from 4 second channel to 3.

Also shield champs are getting buffed.

China likes Sion a lot.

um, so tank only meta then? I'm sorry, but this is just proof riot doesn't understand the game anymore, I'm already getting sick of seeing full tank teams just trample over us since you cant kill them fast enough but this, this is a fucking joke, demolish is already easily one of the best runes in the game (in fact, it should have been a keystone, not a basic rune), why is it getting buffed?

The Bad Touch2 votes

{quoted}

um, so tank only meta then? I'm sorry, but this is just proof riot doesn't understand the game anymore, I'm already getting sick of seeing full tank teams just trample over us since you cant kill them fast enough but this, this is a fucking joke, demolish is already easily one of the best runes in the game (in fact, it should have been a keystone, not a basic rune), why is it getting buffed?

Actually tanks aren't the issue.

The issue is burst is too high and high dps champions (adcs/yi/yas/ect) die far too quickly.

Look at worlds this year. The entire meta was hard CC divers/tanks and burst.

ADC's not named Kai'sa just aren't very scary at the moment because they can be 1-2 shot by assassins.

People used to say "assassins aren't played in pro" However some of the most played/highest win rate champions this year at worlds this year were Akali/Nocturne/Leblanc.

Tanks have been squishier this season than any season in leagues history. HOWEVER sustained DPS is also at an all time low with crit nerfs, and the new runes promote burst in a world where people are easily poked low due to little sustain.

Xavanic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vmO57dEQ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T07:38:50.243+0000)

Actually tanks aren't the issue.

The issue is burst is too high and high dps champions (adcs/yi/yas/ect) die far too quickly.

Look at worlds this year. The entire meta was hard CC divers/tanks and burst.

ADC's not named Kai'sa just aren't very scary at the moment because they can be 1-2 shot by assassins.

People used to say "assassins aren't played in pro" However some of the most played/highest win rate champions this year at worlds this year were Akali/Nocturne/Leblanc.

Tanks have been squishier this season than any season in leagues history. HOWEVER sustained DPS is also at an all time low with crit nerfs, and the new runes promote burst in a world where people are easily poked low due to little sustain.

Akali is busted as shit right now and needs major tuning, leblanc NEVER should have been reverted her kit is too dominant and toxic and nocturne....well he's not really an assassin, he's a diver, adc's are still overtuned (btw atm, assassins cant actually kill adc's unless the assassin is fed, which doesn't happen too often anymore due to people playing so many tanks) and encouraging people to play tanks is not the road to go. I normally don't dodge and I don't like it when people dodge, but now a days, whenever I see 3 or more tanks, (roughly 50% of the time) I just dodge, i'm not putting up with that, facing so many tanks with demolish makes me want to pull my hair out as the game legitimately feels one sided unless you win by 15 minutes, the amount of full tank comps i see is mind blowing, and it works, all they have to do is play safe early game and scale, once they start to do that, they just group and push a lane, that lane will go down within 2 minutes and all you can do is try to stop them, but with tanks having so much dmg (and apparently, getting even more) they can burst you quite quickly (seen a sion 100 - 0 a jax with a single combo a few times), I'm tired of this shit, if i try to get my team to do it, I'm flamed, but i see so many others doing it and winning since the counter play is so easy to prevent

Farix1 votes

So, what you're saying is that assassins should be able to deal with tanks, and that ad carries are overtuned in what you're saying is already a tank dominant meta? Akali only seems busted because most people don't know how to play around her shroud cooldown and her energy management. Once you figure out timing and a little bit of wave management, it isn't hard to scare her long enough for you to outscale. Sion is agreeably overpowered right now because there's very little difference between a fed sion and a feeding sion. Most DPS tanks are in line with this, like Volibear, Darius, Urgot, Renekton, and other tanks that both have good early farming and high scaling base damage on abilities. But other ones like Nautilus Malphite, the ones that sacrifice damage for extra tankiness and utility, really need something like shield bash so that in a fight they actually have some oomph behind them.

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