insert champ lacks counterplay

Dediguise·Oct 2, 2015·12 votes·913 views

The motif of a person trying to sound like they know more about this game than they do. This phrase has lost meaning because it is synonymous with every qq thread on this board. There are scenarios when it is true, but they are far fewer than advertised. Most importantly using this phrase instantly undermines whatever reasonable point you are trying to make. Use your vocab ladies and gents. Oh... and describing a game you had isn't conclusive by any means.

Try asking questions instead of making statements. Then you can address the comments you disagree with as they arise.

25 Comments

The Sword SaintOct 2, 20155 votes

The word has value but 'no counterplay' is just a silly and generally inaccurate statement to make. Usually what someone who says that means is "I can't just pick a certain champ and buy certain items to win a duel without regards to any sort of skill".

These people are only satisfied if hard counters exist. In any world where a champion can still beat them if the other player is better than you, they will complain. These are the people who pick malphite into riven, die level 2 because they q'd a minion for cs and got jumped on and then missed their melee aoe attack, die when the enemy riven hits 6 and all ins them when they're 5 because they whole reason they picked malphite was so that they didn't have to respect riven ever, then try and fight riven a again a few minutes later when they finally have their ultimate but lose because they miss their ult. Then they go to the forum and complain that riven is op because they played 'counter' and lost anyway despite being out played at every possible opportunity.

To them a 'no counterplay' champion has nothing to do with interactions that go on between champions, decisions making, or strategy and everything to do with if it's possible to make a champion select or store choice that can make them irrelevant.

HopFroggerOct 2, 20152 votes

Yep. As I said on a prior thread, it's totally in vogue to drop "no counterplay" to attempt sounding smart. It's becoming code for, "I'm unfamiliar with how to lane against my opponent, and will complain on forums."

Goodest GamerOct 2, 20151 votes

honestly fiora is one of those champs were counterplay is not existent . theres nothing u can do to win lane 1v1 vs a champ that has an advantage over you with her skillset in every way. q does true damage and steals a bit of hp. w slows and can stun if used correctly and stops any sort of cc. e is a slow and a crit. her ulti is a 1v1 god. you can not beat fiora when she hits 6. any champ 6 vs fiora 6 is a loss. her entire kit is godly in 1v1 and teamfights.

HopFroggerOct 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

honestly fiora is one of those champs were counterplay is not existent . theres nothing u can do to win lane 1v1 vs a champ that has an advantage over you with her skillset in every way. q does true damage and steals a bit of hp. w slows and can stun if used correctly and stops any sort of cc. e is a slow and a crit. her ulti is a 1v1 god. you can not beat fiora when she hits 6. any champ 6 vs fiora 6 is a loss. her entire kit is godly in 1v1 and teamfights.

She has counters; there just aren't many of them. The Fiora threads are getting old.

Goodest GamerOct 2, 20151 votes

i understand. shes also getting a big nerf but i wasjust speaking about this patch and the impact she had with the other juggernauts as well.

HopFroggerOct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i understand. shes also getting a big nerf but i wasjust speaking about this patch and the impact she had with the other juggernauts as well.

Sure, I can concede that.

DanofDemaciaOct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She has counters; there just aren't many of them. The Fiora threads are getting old.

How counters isnt counterplay

warpenguin555Oct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

honestly fiora is one of those champs were counterplay is not existent . theres nothing u can do to win lane 1v1 vs a champ that has an advantage over you with her skillset in every way. q does true damage and steals a bit of hp. w slows and can stun if used correctly and stops any sort of cc. e is a slow and a crit. her ulti is a 1v1 god. you can not beat fiora when she hits 6. any champ 6 vs fiora 6 is a loss. her entire kit is godly in 1v1 and teamfights.

Garen

Sp33d Zer0Oct 2, 20151 votes

The only champion I can really think of without counterplay is Ahri. She is too versatile in her builds and has too much utility in her kit for the damage she has. Her only real weakness is tanks, and that's not a counter play, but a counter pick

Teridax68Oct 2, 20154 votes

But then again, her kit carries a ton of interaction potential, so that's not all that accurate. Her Q is dodgeable, as are all skill shots (doubly so due to how it needs to hit targets twice), her W is proximity-based and requires her to put herself at risk, her E can be intercepted by minions, and her ultimate either puts Ahri at more risk when going in, or costs her some damage when going out. She's likely a bit too versatile, but that's different to having no counterplay.

LankPantsOct 2, 20156 votes

The only champion I can really think of without counterplay is Ahri.

You see that spot two steps to the left where she's not aiming her skills? Stand there instead of letting her skills hit you.

She definitely has counterplay.

ICemaNTOct 3, 20151 votes

Just have jungle or someone with a stun on your team gank. As soon as you can stun her she is very squishy and easy to kill. Standard play for most assassins

Bouncemaster ZacOct 2, 20151 votes

Azir sure as hell doesn't have any. Despite round after round of nerfs he's still past God-tier.

DogIsGodOct 2, 20151 votes

Say it to these guys' faces Vladimir Darius and many more.

ShatteredSkysOct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Say it to these guys' faces and many more.

I can't say much about Darius cause I've honestly never played against the reworked one but Vlad is very easy to punish. Vlad is incredibly weak 1-9 and despite his spell vamp very susceptible to all ins. Pick a strong lane bully who can consistently all in, Riven, Renekton, Rengar are all great against him. Early on once he trys to cs all in him he won't have the damage to retaliate. If he pools back off you won the trade there's no point in fighting him. Once you get a kill try and freeze the lane to deny him cs, Vlad is very item dependent if he can't get his items he's a lot weaker than other champions.

DogIsGodOct 2, 20151 votes

Not like I don't know how to play against him, but there's very little counterplay and that counts outside of lane as well, not only in lane. You were just talking about counterpicking which is something completely different. No shit you're gonna beat a champion with someone he's weak against, but the counterplay is just very little.

ShatteredSkysOct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not like I don't know how to play against him, but there's very little counterplay and that counts outside of lane as well, not only in lane. You were just talking about counterpicking which is something completely different. No shit you're gonna beat a champion with someone he's weak against, but the counterplay is just very little.

My bad:/ Yeah Teemo has little counterplay. I guess bait his q and fk him up when it's on cd? But it really depends on what champ you play.

Sp33d Zer0Oct 2, 20151 votes

Swain and Fiddle hard counter vlad though...

DogIsGodOct 2, 20151 votes

Counterplay /=/ counterpick

warpenguin555Oct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Counterplay /=/ counterpick

it can be. shouldnt be the only form of counterplay, but i'd consider it an option.

DediguiseOct 3, 20151 votes

Darius actually loses most trades if his q doesn't land. He literally relies on baiting you into range AFTER you have already done damage to him.

warpenguin555Oct 2, 20151 votes

Not that they'll listen. like back when nidalee was the main QQ topic: SO OP NO COUNTERPLAY NERF NOW me: just dodge her spears, pencil thin hitbox, not too hard SHUT UP NOOB, DODGING SKILLSHOTS IS NOT COUNTERPLAY.

ICemaNTOct 3, 20151 votes

I agree with you for 99% of the time. assassins are squishy, poke champs are vunerable to assassins etc. The only champ that I honestly think doesn't have a counterplay (apart from Veigar :P) is fizz. you can't stun him (due to playful/trickster) and he can all in you and walk out (again with trickster) without taking damage. Is there a counter-play you can suggest just for fizz (I agree with you otherwise) or do you think he is the exception to the rule?

DediguiseOct 3, 20152 votes

AP Fizz currently relies heavily on his ult though he can win fights without it. Ad fizz was gutted last patch. So I think we should focus on the ap aspect. You're right that he is slippery and an excellent duelist. In my experience it's his melee range players try to punish him for. They play ranged champs who he dives and murders. So part of his strength comes from the meta being focused on ranged champs with mobility. So rule number one don't be suckered into thinking that being a ranged character is going to bully him as well as they would bully other melee champs. Knowing that he is a bully against ranged champions, it opens up a whole new set of champions that aren't meta to play against him. Putting fizz in a matchup the player is unfamiliar with will undermine their style and confidence. But it is not your only option.

Ignoring his ult, which is a skill shot and therefore obviously has counterplay, he relies on closing with his q and dodging your follow up with his e, then reengaging and killing you. Now focusing on pure counterplay, there are two ways to deal with him in lane. The safest and easiest is to let him push. He will leave lane to try to roam. Deep wards and pings will help your team notice his absence and react accordingly. Best case scenerio you can ambush him in the jungle if your jungler is paying attention. the second way is to play a champion who can use mobility to dodge his e after he goes in with his q. This means that his main source of damage is gone and he didn't slow you or dodge a damage ability.

It's possible that fizz could hold back on using his e until either you've blown your escape or until he needs to dodge something. This works in your favor. it means that he is essentially fighting with 3 abilities while you have 4.

ICemaNTOct 3, 20151 votes

ok, I'll give it a go next time I play against that slippery little fish. Thanks for the tips :)