Just finished my daily ranked game.

Dediguise··37 votes·1,997 views

Was playing as Shen vs Riven. Completely stomped my lane phase, but we lost control midgame and the other team sailed to victory. What cost us the game? Map awareness and not working together effectively. I want to focus on the latter.

This is a reoccurring theme in almost everygame I play to both teams I am on and teams i'm not. Ultimately I feel that when i lose it's because my team lacks synergy in comp and/or playstyle. I've had some mechanically incredible players that refused to work as part of a team. Like a lee sin who builds all damage and is constantly out of position. It works great until the other team wards(Of course he was a smurf).

The point of this isn't to start a QQ thread though, just simply to give you a background from where I'm coming from. All balance changes aside I feel like one thing riot has managed to accomplish is to make this a team game. And I'm beginning to wonder if smurfing is contributing to ELO hell.

This feeling that if you are good enough that you can carry anything is holding players back. Yes some games you get carried by the D5 smurf playing trynda, but the only reason he is doing that well is because the other team hasn't coordinated a response. Relying on other players to be uncoordinated is not skill. Skill is predicting a coordinated teams response. Just as many games are lost because a mechanically skilled player is unwilling to work with and/or teach his team. Likewise some games are uncarriable. Some teams will never function. But the goal of the smurfing player should not be to carry by beating up on noobs. It should be to improve his skills as a shot caller and a leader and to teach less skilled players how to work together. This behavior my friends will win you more games than maining riven.

23 Comments

Lost In Time13 votes

Best thread of the night, unfortunately might not reach the front page because of the usual upvote whoring "more refunds!" "nerf vayne!" "rito is t0xic!" threads.

Shrapnel Shrap1 votes

Possibly ganks from Ekko, but looking at the Riven OP faced, they have won 8 games with Riven and only won 16. Silver II OP. She also built a Hydra first instead armor pen and for some reason built a ghost blade for her next item. I'm no Riven main, but I felt like a rushed brut/Black Cleaver/Titanic Hydra would of been much better than what she built, even though she only died twice in lane.

The lack of tanks OP's team as well. I main support, but I've never played lulu. (One of the very few supports I need to buy, but to I've been getting champs for other lanes when I can't play support or I want to play a carry role). I felt like she should of built a Locket instead of Zeke's.

Dediguise3 votes

Yes that is all true. But in lane her csing was awful as well. That is what cost her the lane. She couldn't stay longer than 1 trade. With Riven players even the slightest disadvantage in gold is a massive setback.

But again 99% of Riven players in will rush hydra over black cleaver. Even with black cleaver she wasn't going to catch up in a duel. Her only hope in lane was to try to outsustain me and wait for a gank. Ghostblade tho? I have no idea.

Hyrum Graff6 votes

The goal of the smurfing player should not be to carry by beating up on noobs. It should be to improve his skills as a shot caller and a leader and to teach less skilled players how to work together. This behavior my friends will win you more games than maining riven.

Oh my lord, so much this.

This is (much more elegantly stated) what I tell people who think Elo hell exists. Getting out isn't about hard carrying, it's about being a positive force on your team who enables good communication and teamwork.

It starts in champion select. I attribute a significant amount of my win percentage to starting off every lobby by demonstrating good communication and encouraging my teammates to do the same.

>Good evening, everybody. >My presentation are mid > supp > top >Anyone a good jungler?

The minority of games that I don't start champ select that way, I am noticeably less likely to win.

Wakamune4 votes

I smurfed on low level accounts to teach my friends who just started, see some new concepts in action and play more relaxed.

When I returned to my main account I played like I'm sedated.

So yeah, be careful how often you smurf.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

the fuck?

how do you win lane on shen against riven? his laning abysmal.

Dediguise2 votes

I usually beat Riven's as Shen. Don't underestimate the power of sustain. I also went in with quints marks and seals giving me flat armor and started cloth 5 pots. So before cloth armor I was starting with with +31 armor or something stupid like that. Secondly when playing against a riven as shen, my goal is to stall them until I can make a play with Shen' ult and then immediately tp back to lane. If I can wear the riven down by q'ing her throughout lane (when she doesn't have her shield up) then I also essentially win. It's all about learning the Riven players sense of timing and waiting for openings. Shen excels at that.

Granted this was certainly not the best Riven, but again playing against Riven is more about learning how that player mechanically reacts and adjusting than trying to counter her. A few slight changes to builds and runes will also make even the best players miscalculate.

Pæan4 votes

71 armor lvl 1 and Q spamming her when her shield is down. :D

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

71 armor lvl 1 and Q spamming her when her shield is down. :D

why wouldnt she all in you nonstop? i mean shen wants short trades with his q, e and passive. then get out until the cooldowns are back up. why wouldnt she constantly harass him? i mean she always has at least 1 cooldown available.

due to his energy mechanic he isnt really good in extended fights. especially early on. and riven is an early lane bully. i dont see how he wins against that even with his q.

its not like he can chose to avoid her, considering that shes much more mobile.

Dediguise2 votes

I also excel at farming under tower. Which is essential until I can get to level 4 or 5. If riven starts with her q then she will auto push her lane with her first level 1 exchange. The other thing I might run in lane is health regen quints. That + dorans shield usually makes up for "losses" in trading. If the riven is running ignite then I have a harder time, but can use tp to by early resistances and make it back without losing cs. If a riven is trading evenly in lane she is losing.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

eh, maybe she was somewhat new to riven and wasn't confident enough to all-in like that.

Pæan2 votes

Riven is still squishy, and the Q pokes start to add up, and if she all-ins you, it's normally going to be in or near your minion wave. Just taunt her mid Q and lets the minions eat her, this is really easy because she tends to push which makes taunting her under tower easy also. But I'm plat 4 so I may have not run into many "good" rivens. :/

Linthe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHhGo96H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-18T09:25:05.255+0000)

the fuck?

how do you win lane on shen against riven? his laning abysmal.

Was playing as SHEN vs RIVEN . Completely stomped MY lane phase, (Caps mine).

Reading is fundamental....

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

ahhhhhh

Slamurai Jack5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GHhGo96H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-18T09:25:05.255+0000)

the fuck?

how do you win lane on shen against riven? his laning abysmal.

item 3068 Riven doesn't have the damage to beat through Shen's sustain early game if you run a lot of armor runes and she definitely doesn't have the damage to kill him once he has sunfire. Shen's early laning is actually really strong against low sustain champions due to his own high sustain and tankiness in combination with his high base damages. You're a Garen main, you should know how this works. If Riven can't burst you down, you win.

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

I try and stay very active in chat when i feel our team starting to lose map control, sure sometimes they don't listen because they think they know better. I've found that most people want to win and will listen if you are going even/winning your lane. If your jungler isn't keeping up with vision control, buy some item 2043 swap to a item 3341 and do it for him. If you notice your support isn't building sightstone, ask him and everyone else to get some wards out. Most of the time people get so focused on their lane that you kinda have to snap them out of it and make them look at the map as a whole. Sometimes people just don't want to communicate, but other times you can pull off awesome comebacks/close a lead by forcing your team to communicate better. item 2049 item 2045 item 2049

Dediguise1 votes

{quoted}

I try and stay very active in chat when i feel our team starting to lose map control, sure sometimes they don't listen because they think they know better. I've found that most people want to win and will listen if you are going even/winning your lane. If your jungler isn't keeping up with vision control, buy some item 2043 swap to a item 3341 and do it for him. If you notice your support isn't building sightstone, ask him and everyone else to get some wards out. Most of the time people get so focused on their lane that you kinda have to snap them out of it and make them look at the map as a whole. Sometimes people just don't want to communicate, but other times you can pull off awesome comebacks/close a lead by forcing your team to communicate better. item 2049 item 2045 item 2049

One important thing that I didn't mention is that it doesn't matter how much vision you have if your team does not capitalize on it. On one end that means a failure to rotate properly or to be in the area to take drag. On the other end of the spectrum it could be a failure to use vision to predict where the other team is when you lose vision. What nobody considers is that every ward you place tells you both where they are and where they aren't. Having tons of vision may not reveal exactly where they are, but it does show where they aren't.

DarkDeamonDragon1 votes

Had a game last night that was the opposite of this. We were getting stomped early game but we came together in the end and won. Granted it wasn't ranked but it still felt good. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1953479335/201850056?tab=overview

LaowPing1 votes

I think this is why some people go for champions like Riven, she can solo carry. Shen doesn't do this as much His success is completely dependent on how he can work with his team, if his team doesn't work well with him it doesn't work all that well. This is why Vayne is so popular, she's the only ADC who does this.

Feathermane1 votes

It is apparent from this thread not a lot of people play Shen and they have an exaggerated opinion of Riven. Pretty much expected.

5512021 votes

{quoted}

And I'm beginning to wonder if smurfing is contributing to ELO hell.

You've found what rito didnt in 6 years

Stars Shaper1 votes

Rather than "believeing to be good enough to carry a team" I think the misconception is about what does "carry a team" actually means.

Carrying a team doesn't mean "I'll solo them while you do what you want". It means "exploit" your team so that you can do your job, it means making them work good. Unfortunally you can't force any1 hands so you'll have to take care of what your team is missing and hope that things go well.

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