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@Riot Would it be such a bad idea to seperate LCS balance from the normal games balance?

Electro522··5 votes·858 views

It's an honest question. I ask because recently there has been a lot of talk around LCS balancing, and balancing in general. No, I'm not talking about the posts like "OMG RITO, WHY NERF SHEN?!?!?", but the conversations that are geared towards how different of a game LCS play is.

At the time of writing this, there is a post on the front page of the boards detailing how Vlad is not as good as he seems, despite people complaining about him, however, he's been pick or ban in the LCS for quite some time. Also, I recall reading somewhere that Aphromoo (support for CLG) stated that the game shifts drastically from Challenger to LCS play, so much so that it's essentially a completely different game. We also had the debacle with Reginald (TSM team owner), with him stating that the constant state of change in League is unhealthy for the LCS.

What is interesting though, is that the LCS already appears to be set up for separate balancing. Its been widely known that the LCS opperates at least one patch behind the normal game at any given time (save for the start of the season). Thus, the LCS has to operate on a completely separate server, correct? If that's the case, than separating the balance between LCS and normal play should be quite easy......shouldn't it?

League of Legends is easily leading the rest of the world into the E-sports era, so whatever Riot does now will affect the E-sports scene for years, or even decades to come. It's just a thought.

TL;DR: LCS appears to be in the perfect position for separate balance from the normal game. Would it be so hard to do this?

8 Comments

Restless Slumber3 votes

Yes, because the balance for LCS would also be what the majority of the community would want in plat+. Just because some might find that certain champs are unbalanced doesn't mean that they should be changed. The game should always be balanced around a champion being used to its fullest potential, not around how it does in bronze and silver games.

Electro5221 votes

And I agree. However, I never stated that each tier should be balanced seperately, only the LCS. The normal game would go on as if nothing ever changed.

Though, you do bring up an interesting point about people wanting to play what Is strong in the LCS. Even though I do see that this could be a problem, it may not be a problem for very long. People should eventually learn that what is strong in the LCS, is completely different from normal play. In fact, we already see this to some degree (look at Vlad).

Though, I could very well be overestimating this community.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

In a word, yes.

A big part of watching pro-level games for me is the knowledge that they are playing the game with the same rules as I do, and make it look so different.

EK Kimozzi1 votes

Then you want pro players to play on seperate server? why would pros play solo q if champions or items etc are different in lcs patch? I am sure the reason why lcs uses previous patch is that if they dont, certain teams who have matches one or two days later will have disadvantages duo to the sudden changes and also there might be bugs too. After a week or two, if I am not wrong,lcs operates on current patch.

Gear Kitty1 votes

Yes. Ungodly so. So hard that it would require hiring what could be a couple dozen new employees, at least. --- You need new devs to handle the 'Live' state of the LCS Server Playstate (calling it the SP from here on) --- You need new devs to work on the SAME work as the devs making a new champion, item, or mechanic for the regular servers in order to apply it to the SP. --- You need probably an entire new team of QA Testers, who are at or near LCS level of play, in order to make sure things actually work in a real match. --- And then there'd probably be a Community Manager (or whatever they call the job) assigned just to the SP to make sure the pro-players are and can use it right, while also fielding questions about why the regular players can't play on it.

That's just the manpower aspect, I haven't even gotten into the player logistics! --- How would the LCS players practice if their only way to play on the SP is to play as a team against other pro teams? --- As time goes on, the divergence between the Actual Live (AL) and SP versions of LoL would get undoubtedly large. How would we the players and viewers even know if a team is doing well on a strictly mechanical level if the version of the champion they're playing is in an entirely different state from the AL, that was never even present on the AL? --- It's already a gamble bringing an expert Solo-Q player into an LCS styled level of play. That's why it's a big deal when teams do it, because it means they're either grasping at straws or found someone they think will become really really good (sometimes both). If the SP is made, that version of the game would have to be different enough from the AL version to warrant keeping it around. Because of that, anyone brought in from outside the SP would in some cases have to relearn their entire role.

Imagine if there had always been a SP separate from the AL, and the vision changes were only done on that server, namely the removal of Stealth Wards and limiting of ward total/price cut of Vision Wards. The change was definitely partly done because of pro-play's reliance and exploitation of warding info.

Now picture a Support main Solo-Q god. Carrying their random teammates on their backs every game with expert plays and extreme game knowledge. Some or all of their prestige is worthless on the SP because it's basically a different game at that point. And this Support can't even go reliably practice to "git gud". There'd be no solo-Q on the SP.

Even adding in the Challenger and University teams, and any free-agent current pros that are teamless, you'd still have less than 1000 players max. There would be no general practice like pros can get on the AL server. The server population just wouldn't be able to accommodate it.

And after all that, there actually IS A PROS ONLY SERVER.

It's how the teams practice on the current LCS patch after the Live servers change to the next one. However, this server is only set to whatever the current LCS patch is. It is not balanced differently, like how you're asking. It's where the different teams meet up for scheduled scrimming. There is no Solo-Q, because the population of available players is too low. It's all practice and scrims, and nothing there actually counts.

TL;DR You're dumb, and your idea is dumb. There is no logistical foundation for creating and maintaining a LCS only server playstate with the intent of separating pro and non-pro balance changes.

Electro5222 votes

Well, I was going to commemorate you for making a very well thought out post and counterargument, but was calling me dumb at the end of it all necessary?

You made plenty of points that I didn't think of, and after reading through it all, I now realize why it would be a bad idea.

But you lost so much credibility with that single insult. Next time you make such an awesome counterargument, don't blatantly insult the other person, for so many people will refuse to take you seriously because of it.

Gear Kitty1 votes

My post didn't need it. However, it made me feel better putting it in, after writing all of that out, as well as giving me an almost assured reply from you.

I grew up debating and arguing, it's just how my family functions on a basic level. Everything has two sides, everything is decided with some reason in mind, even if it's a really stupid reason.

In this paradigm, I learned that if an idea or suggestion you had seemed grand/amazing/completely workable and worthwhile, it's because you hadn't thought it out. The logistics and ramifications have to be considered, otherwise you look like a fool the moment another brings them up.

Like many players, I don't like that Shen and others are repeatedly nerfed because of elite pro-level play (except for some, like Rek'sai... she can stay in a hole for a while ;3 ). But this system and style where ALL PLAYERS have to work within the same parameters and balance state is the best way to handle such a problem. Imagine it another way....

The Olympics and Gymnastics are still fresh in everyone's minds, right? What would the competitors look like, how would they react, if the Olympics (and the other international gymnastic competitions) were the only location that had a properly lengthened balance beam? All other sports centers and personal/public gyms had a version that was larger and wider, for the common and less professional people to use. The only place athletes could get real rote practice, under competition parameters, was at competitions and the warm-ups beforehand.

It'd be ridiculous, right? The gymnasts would revolt and demand access at anytime to the kind of equipment they would be judged under. Prospective gymnasts too, because the only way they and their coaches would know if they would do well at competition is if they actually practiced with competition equipment.

It's the same for League.

You (and many others, definitely, even me) say that E-sports tier is almost a different game from what we play under. Well, so is Bronze to Gold. And Gold to Diamond. Even the meta between Diamond and Master/Challenger can be a huge leap. But we all have to play under the same balance state, because otherwise we wouldn't be able to compare Bronze to Gold to Diamond to Challenger to Pro. They would be different games, like comparing stats between Tee Ball, Softball, and Baseball in one breath.

Baaaasically, all that was a convoluted mess trying to explain in another way why the idea was bad, sorry. Mostly, what I want to get across here is that if you can't see any reason why an idea isn't perfect and should be implemented right away, it's because you haven't thought hard/long enough. I called you dumb because I wanted to help drive home a lesson. That you have to beat the people who will argue against you before they have a chance, by knowing what and how they will argue you with. And if you find adequate reasons for their side, the kind that ruin your suggestion or idea, that you can't counter.... well, then you've learned something. You've thought ahead, seen a problem, and can move from there, and all without losing face with a losing argument.

Astôlfo1 votes

The whole point is pros can play on the same type of game 'mode' as us but just do it better because they are pros. It just really friggin sucks when they neuter champions into worthless garbage out of the sole fact they're too good in LCS, even if they're perfectly balanced in every other tier of play.

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