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I am honestly getting very tired of the Boards community.

Electro522··195 votes·17,274 views

Laughing Fish posted a meme last week, i think, of a little bird representing a player saying how they actually liked preseason, and enjoy the state of the game. However, this little bird easily gets drowned out by a crow who represents the people unhappy with the game.......and how they are just so much louder than those who support Riot.

Despite it's intent to be funny, I don't think someone has posted something more true than that.

Yesterday, The Game Theorists released a video on lootboxes, and at one point, Matpat talked about "Loss Aversion". It's exactly what it sounds like......us humans hate losing, and we will go to some pretty extreme lengths to keep it from happening. If you were to watch it, I'm certain you can see the similarities in how League works.

League, at its core is a team game. Your team HAS to work together in order to win, so, if you lose, most of the time, you will feel powerless, as if either your teammates or the game itself is against you.

Of course, if you don't like how the game is going, or if you feel that game is in a badly, unbalanced state right now, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Unfortunately, when several like minded people get funneled into one place, it becomes very hard for any differing opinions to rise to the surface.

And this is where we come back to Laughing Fish. Thanks to his popularity, that meme was able to rise up along with many others he had posted, and allow his opinion to get out. If I were to make a similar post, I'd be surprised if it ever saw the light of day.

Those of us that support Riot do so quietly, even though we really don't want to. The reason why, is because the majority of the people on the boards will keep us from making our voices heard. And recently, I've noticed that people are even starting to take a stand against those that support Riot, basically implying that we are nothing but naive children who worship Riot, and the very ground they walk on.

Why even try to make a thread thanking Riot for the work they've done, and the amount of attention they give to their community, when you have people like that floating around? All that will happen is the thread will be downvoted into oblivion, and no one will ever see it again once it fades off of the "new" page. Hell, I'll be surprised if this thread doesn't have at least a score of -3 by the next time I check it.

And to make matters worse.......I see no way of fixing this. These are the official forums of the game. People will come here in hopes of getting their opinions heard, and 8 times out of 10, it will be because they want to complain about something. And what will they find when they come here? Many, MANY like minded people who are upset with the game in some way, shape, or form.

I've been a part of the Boards ever since they were made. I've seen it grow and shrink o er the years, and I've seen it's highs and lows. But this is the first time in 4 years that I am actively wanting to find a different community, because trying to be a little voice of reason in a massive echo chamber is getting tiring, especially with how the boards have been acting lately.

I don't think I have ever seen the boards be THIS negative. And you may say that its because of the state of the game, but I'd have to disagree with you. If you've been around as long as I have, you may have noticed that the Boards is shrinking. Less and less threads are reaching voting milestones, and the number of comments on any average thread have slowly been going down. We only get slight bumps in population when Riot posts something important.....such as Meddler's gameplay thoughts. Other than that, the Boards have been on a steady decline ever since their inception. It also seems as if those who support Riot, or are somewhere in the middle are the ones being driven out, making the echo chamber that much louder.

Despite what you may believe, League of Legends is not dying. If anything, it only continues to grow.

But the Boards are.........and its a shame to see something with potential do so.

TL;DR

The Boards have become exceedingly negative, and trying to be someone who supports Riot in this echo chamber is just getting way to difficult.

285 Comments

Thresh Outta Fux96 votes

The only reason all of us are still here, is because after you spend years supporting the direction a company is going, only to have them whip around and change from "Game Balance" to "Game Design", is a major heartbreaker.

We're just here hoping this abusive relationship will go back to the way things were.

We don't have an out. There's nowhere to go. The charms and quirks we all fell in love with are here, only now they're buried under a heaping mound of shit known as e-sports.

And all we can do is complain. We're destitute, there's no home, no family to go back to. We put 110% into this relationship, I and many others abandoned many/all of our previous gaming communities.

We can't even vote with our wallets, because the community is so huge and e-sports is generating all of the revenue now.

The boards are positive -> the game balance is fairly acceptable The boards are negative -> the game balance is atrocious.

An Enemy Sutando15 votes

There's always, ALWAYS gonna be a loud minority that's gonna be very vocally unhappy about the game's balance.

Mordepool3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thresh Outta Fux,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-11T14:34:43.131+0000)

The only reason all of us are still here, is because after you spend years supporting the direction a company is going, only to have them whip around and change from "Game Balance" to "Game Design", is a major heartbreaker.

We're just here hoping this abusive relationship will go back to the way things were.

We don't have an out. There's nowhere to go. The charms and quirks we all fell in love with are here, only now they're buried under a heaping mound of shit known as e-sports.

And all we can do is complain. We're destitute, there's no home, no family to go back to. We put 110% into this relationship, I and many others abandoned many/all of our previous gaming communities.

We can't even vote with our wallets, because the community is so huge and e-sports is generating all of the revenue now.

The boards are positive -> the game balance is fairly acceptable The boards are negative -> the game balance is atrocious.

Ty thresh you sum it up perfectly. As a S1 Veteran I can tell you if I had come into the game any later than S4. I never would have stuck around. Ultimately I can place alot of the hardship this game has gone through at the feet. Of Ashe

Salson20 votes

We can't even vote with our wallets, because the community is so huge and e-sports is generating all of the revenue now.

Personally, I think the Skins team is doing a good job. It's the Balance team that's fucking the game up.

Would fell kinda weird to boycott the wrong people.

LordGeovanni2 votes

Skins team do a fine job on who they decide to put out decent skins for but they dont put put skins for champions that arent yasou riven lux adcs and the like but when they decide to do other champions you get God Staff Jax which while a great skin in concept is worse than almost every other skin he already has and you get world breaker trundle and maruder and warden skin line which only ashe and sivir look like any effort was put into them. world breaker would have worked if they didnt just put out the far superior constable trundle. people go skins cost alot of money but thats not really true unless you outsource for every skin you do in which case why do you have a Skins department.

(the same way game companies tell you games cost millions) I believe every time they tell you making a skin costs alot they are counting the full price of the hard ware and software that they only had to buy once and it spreads over every one of their projects among other things. which is why when they tell you skins cost alot they dont ever tell you what that cost entails same way when game companies tell you games cost alot they dont ever tell you want it entails. They are counting the cost of the hard ware and soft ware they already own and use in everyone of their skins the only thing that seem i would actualy consider a cost of the skin is their hard ware and soft ware but divided across every skin they have made and continue to make. the special skins that get out side art studios to help and voice acting (and all of those to the company shouldnt even dent the company if they made 300 skins a year) because i doubt they pay any voice actor 400k for voicing a character none the less 30k except celebrity voice actors which i understand there are a few of.

if you understand sales you understand always try to charge for your tools and experties every time. When i first went to buy skins i thought i would get a good amount of skins for $50 after all its only data on a game that you expect over thousands of sales per region. i went back to my hotel and found i could only buy a couple skins and went back to buy more cards when i realized and i thought man these are overpriced. and i continued to buy for the next 5 years though often opting to wait for 50% off by weekly sales.

Do you think companies ever lose money when they put things on sale no they never do. they only lose out compared to the orignal profit but sales give them profit they wouldnt have gotten because people who buy on sales normally wouldnt have bought at all. things that go on sale arent even worth the money that is the sale price none the less their normal price. My biggest gripe is that if they made skins cheap in the first place they could make more money by selling much more skins rather than selling sets of skins for more money after all its all data the cost is the same to them whether you buy or dont buy but if you have a market size of 800k per legendary skin rather than 200k you could afford to cost cuts wouldnt effect you in the slightest and may even net more money

Salson6 votes

Skins have to pay for basically everything: -Servers -Building -Skins team -Design team -Balance team (if they actually get paid) -Tencent's 50% of income

Though I also buy 90% of skins on sale, but more because I consider those 'fair' prices.

I Like Things 6 votes

{quoted}

Skins have to pay for basically everything:

-Tencent's 100% of income

Though I also buy 90% of skins on sale, but more because I consider those 'fair' prices.

FTFY.

There is no Riot Games any more. It's now TenCent Presents : Riot Games.

CytheGuy8 votes

HOLY SHIT I just read that article, and you could say that Tencent ruined League by backing it up with the line: "Major changes are coming to League of Legends in 2016, the company detailed earlier this fall"

Clicking on various links within the article made me find that there's a lot of things rooted around Tencent buying out Riot Games. Whoever decided to let Riot be bought out completely was an idiot.

I Like Things 7 votes

Whoever decided to let Riot be bought out completely was an idiot.

That would be Marc Merrill and Brandon Beck, the founders of Riot Games. They were stupid enough to sell the majority of their shares to TenCent back in 2011 and decided to relinquish the rest of it a few years later.

Instead of owning a now multi-billion dollar IP they sold it to a conglomerate. Very idiotic indeed.

RiotRiot Calad25 votes

I don't really come to the boards (or any other player community) looking for players who support Riot. I'm looking for honest impressions, and to get a better understanding of what players think. We care about your opinion whether or not you like where League is at any given time, so I don't really want boards to be about warring factions of players who support changes and player who hate changes.

But I do agree with a lot of your points. Personally, I feel boards can be pretty prone to hyperbole, and it feels like threads often become echo chambers rather than places for discussion. This can make it difficult for Rioters passing through to engage, which leads to more players feeling disheartened and unheard.

GripaAviara23 votes

Interesting because the game runs for more than 6 years and the boards were never so negative. This either means there is a real problem in the game or that the game drove away most of the positive people and remained only with negative ones

RainbowIcee5 votes

It's the first, most people come to the boards to complain or read about the "news" of the game or what's up with the elo's. So right of the bat the boards is mostly used for negativity, on that note this new season has brought up more negativity than usual. It's due to the power creep and short matches.

Holgranth14 votes

I'm going to have to contradict you there I've been on the Forums and Boards since the Nocturne patch, so March-Arpril 2011, I have seen WAY worse. At various states from Season 2 onwards there has been overwhelming negative feedback. ESPECIALLY when Dota 2 launched. The "League is Dead Icefrog is the OG Genius of ARTS, Riot will die now" circlejerk was JAW DROPPING. (Valve tried to rebrand "Moba" as "ActionRTS")

SH Azykan4 votes

I like the term Action Real Time Strategy (ARTS) more than Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA) tbh Might have a been a good way to rebrand it so people don't assume every game of league is somehow a team deathmatch until one team surrenders. But that there is an actual non-kill based objective.

SEKAI22 votes

And you made a thread supposedly criticing the board is a negative echo chamber.

While your thread seems to be well received and the popularity is growing in this supposed negative echo chamber.

Maybe it isn't a negative echo chamber?

Velzard of Koz34 votes

More specifically, he made a post about how the Boards are echo chamber in which he said:

Of course, if you don't like how the game is going, or if you feel that game is in a badly, unbalanced state right now, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

If the game is in heavily unbalanced state, it isn't determined by opinion but facts. Stats are fact, Rune pick diversity ratio is a fact, pool of champions with decent pickrate and decent winrate and their amounts is a fact. All the things that could be brought up as why the game is unbalanced is a fact, not an opinion.

I am not saying the game is unbalanced, but If it is and someone states it while backing up their reasoning, they are not stating an opinion, but fact.

And If you still thik how cute the OP is by "tolerating" the opinion, imagine an Ignorant Orthodox Extreme Religious person saying "If you think the Earth is round, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.". There is nothing more echo chamber than pretending a fact is an opinion, as it allows you to keep your failure, pretend it's truth and disallow any rational discussion change your mind. THAT is an echo chamber.

If someone says Yasuo is extremly broken and easy to win with while he'd have 0.1% pickrate with 30% winrate, they are not stating opinion, they are stating false claim. Likewise, If someone claims Yasuo is in balanced state while he'd have 60% pickrate, 40% banrate and 80% winrate, they would be bulshitting, too. If you say Yasuo is fun to play as, that is an opinion. Someone might find his design boring and overrated, some might say it's unique. And even here If we led the debate long enough, we would reach objective specifics.

Whether someone who wants to live in echo chamber wants it or not, Riot team can make major mistakes (laughs in ardent) and pretending they weren't mistakes but some people simply had the opinion they didn't like it is going to make them learn nothing and not improve.

Surely, maybe majority of such complaints are stubborn, inaccurate, sloppy and expressed in a dick manner, but they tend to at least dance around valid point and it is up to Rioters to find that point to learn from it. And no matter how dickish the Boards get, Rioters repeatedly stated they do want to hear the feedback, sometimes posting in threads that were rude.

So TL;DR: Most people I've heard complaining about echo chamber just want echo chamber of different kind, so I don't believe discussion about such topic can even be led into something contributing. So it doesn't matter much If it is negative echo chamber or not, as the OP himself wouldn't probably be ethalon of objectivity.

Electro5227 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-01-11T15:12:25.254+0000)

So it doesn't matter much If it is negative echo chamber or not, as the OP himself wouldn't probably be ethalon of objectivity.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, but may I ask, what do you mean by this last line in particular? If you're saying I support Riot blindly, and say they've done no wrong, then I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. I can list MANY things they have done wrong, and if you want me to, I will. But, I'm going to do so in a constructive, professional manner, something the boards rarely ever does.

If I'm wrong on that, then please correct me.

Jinx Hunter7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-01-11T18:11:00.312+0000)

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, but may I ask, what do you mean by this last line in particular? If you're saying I support Riot blindly, and say they've done no wrong, then I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. I can list MANY things they have done wrong, and if you want me to, I will. But, I'm going to do so in a constructive, professional manner, something the boards rarely ever does.

If I'm wrong on that, then please correct me.

I believe what he is saying is OP wants an echo chamber theirself and is kind of being a hypocrite by telling everyone to stop criticizing and start only praising; which is basically what the OP wants. They want a circle jerk echo chamber where no one complains or offers criticism. Which is honestly stupid. An Echo chamber of criticism is far more useful then an echo chamber of "they can do no wrong".

Electro5228 votes

Firstly, I am the OP.....Hi!

Secondly, I am not calling for that at all. I applaud constructive criticism. If someone makes a post explaining why they don't like something going on, with examples and facts behind it, more power to them. Such as this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7T49kb1y-riot-its-time-to-stop-the-support-changes-are-unacceptable

I would much rather see that, than this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xydrTyq3-first-update-for-season-8-is-a-total-joke

Jinx Hunter10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-11T18:29:02.391+0000)

Firstly, I am the OP.....Hi!

Secondly, I am not calling for that at all. I applaud constructive criticism. If someone makes a post explaining why they don't like something going on, with examples and facts behind it, more power to them. Such as this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7T49kb1y-riot-its-time-to-stop-the-support-changes-are-unacceptable

I would much rather see that, than this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xydrTyq3-first-update-for-season-8-is-a-total-joke

You have a point, but your forgetting one important thing. Posts like the first one use to be quiet common. Now they aren't, because riot never responds to any of it, so people get tired and frustrated with being ignored and go with the short and sweet way.

Why waste your time making a detailed and long drawn out post to point out a problem, if its just going to be ignored anyways? Better to say your issue short and sweet and have ignored then put effort into it and have it ignored. it pisses people off a lot less when they don't put that much effort in it.

Riot has proven they don't care what the community thinks, they believe they know better then people that collectively play the game more then all of them combined. Its prideful ignorance on riots end, nothing more or less. Actually no, that's a bit unfair, they aren't ignorant, that would imply that all this crap hasn't been on purpose. It has, it has been done for the sake of LCS and E$PORTs, which would be fine, if it didn't sacrifice the experience for the average player.

Electro5226 votes

Alright, but despite that, Riot has said time, and time, and time again that they read as much as they can on these boards. I know you're not going to believe that, but I do.

It's probably why this thread is at the top of the "hot" page right now. I wouldn't be surprised if enough Rioters have upvoted this in order to push it up that far. Maybe even some of the mods too, because they are all getting tired of this.

Jinx Hunter6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=0003000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-11T18:45:19.638+0000)

Alright, but despite that, Riot has said time, and time, and time again that they read as much as they can on these boards. I know you're not going to believe that, but I do.

It's probably why this thread is at the top of the "hot" page right now. I wouldn't be surprised if enough Rioters have upvoted this in order to push it up that far. Maybe even some of the mods too, because they are all getting tired of this.

See that's the crux. You have to take them at their word. Take EA for example, they same the same thing, but we all know they are full of it. Its all fine and good to give a company a benefit of a doubt. But Riot has a track recorded of them saying one thing and doing another.

I very much would like to believe riot, but time and experience with these big game companies has taught me that what they say can never be taken at face value. They can very well read it, but they don't have to actually listen, you get what I mean? Words on deaf ears if you get what I am saying.

The boards can give all the valuable critique possible in the greatest of detail and almost non of it will really be listened to, out side of easy to fix bugs or ones that fundamentally break the game in an exploitive way. That is what has the community in a hyper aggressive state like atm. Only so many times you can piss on a bear before you make it mad. People don't like to be ignored.

Galacius3 votes

Let's go ahead and knock off the insults and personal attacks. Thanks.

The Darius King10 votes

I personally love the new pre-season with all the new runes and changes they've made. Yes riot has made some bad decisions in the past but overall I love this game and unless they completely kill it I'll continue to love the game

Chermorg10 votes

The boards have this habit of turning into an echo chamber for an idea that sounds good, but is untrue or based on wrong information. We, the community, seem to think Riot must do whatever we want with the game, and if they don't, we start saying the balance team sucks (or any other team). We need to understand that the boards are just one avenue of feedback, and it is one where there is very limited population to gather feedback from. Riot gathers feedback from many places including blinded in client surveys that paint a much better picture of the community's desires. I think we need to understand this and stop attacking Riot, or Rioters, for just not doing something we want done.

It's extremely selfish and I hate seeing it, but there's not much we can do about it beyond deleting threads with absolutely no value (such as those that only say "fuck riot X should be fired"). People are allowed to complain. But they shouldn't expect a Riot response when their complaint is, for lack of a better word, stupid or selfish.

Karunamon6 votes

Those responses rarely come even when the complaints are calmly stated and backed up with examples or data...

Chermorg5 votes

I tend to see people complaining about "feel" a lot - and while that can be backed up by data, they don't really need to respond to that type of complaint. For example, recently, someone complained about how easy it was to die, and the Rioter came to point out that they were playing like shit and that's why they died. Rioters should not have to respond to that type of thread.

Karunamon6 votes

On the contrary - "feel" is a massively important part of game design, and something that your backend numbers simply can't give you any data on. What Riot can see for certainty is stuff like pick rate, ban rate, average performance in lane.

What Riot cannot see, and has no information on beyond player feedback, is how fun a champ is. People will ban weak champs even if they are more likely to win against them because they're a pain in the ass to play against. People will play champions they dislike if it puts them at an advantage - and that dislike can be rooted in anything from current meta, to kit, to visual/sound design, or some complicated interplay of all those things.

No amount of metrics can give you that information.

RiotRiot Calad10 votes

Like Chermorg mentioned, Boards are actually pretty small part of the overall league community - but I'd still disagree with you that responses rarely happen here. There's a red tracker somewhere up there to the left, and it's pretty common to see a couple pages worth of responses every day. The ratio of Rioters to players here is probably higher than a lot of other communities.

I think it depends what your goal is when coming to boards. If your goal is that you make a a thread and Riot sees it and instantly implements the change you want - I suspect you're going to be disappointed a lot of the time. If your goal is to see how other players feel about an item, or a champion, or a change - it's much easier for a Rioter to come in and contribute to the discussion, or explain their reasoning.

Ifneth9 votes

Man, I must be some sort of a weirdo judging by this thread's replies. I love what's Riot been doing! No more having to read a technical document to really understand how runes and masteries work. Pick two trees, one keystone, and five runes after that. Problem solved. More mana from Manaflow Band is always nice, and having my abilities hit harder is a lot of fun. Sure, a few champs got a little wacky, and bruisers sure miss Fervor, but that's the nature of a MOBA game. There's always going to be something to improve.

And judging by what longer-time players tell me, things once were a lot worse. Long ago, there was always a champ that was flat-out broken. Old Evelynn stacking Sunfire Capes, tank Ekko, machine-gun Ryze, bruiser Yasuo. Now a champ is OP if its winrate is more than 52%. We've only added champs all the way through, and the balance has actually improved. So keep at it, Riot!

Thunderneedle8 votes

Complaining about the people complaining, how meta.

hoyohai4 votes

Complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining, how meta.

And before you say it, yes, I am complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining.

Scary Door5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-11T12:24:34.415+0000)

The Boards have become exceedingly negative, and trying to be someone who supports Riot in this echo chamber is just getting way to difficult.

I'm not a fan boy, nor a hater... there was a time where I might have classified myself closer to 'fanboy' status though, but it has become impossible to defend the direction that this game has headed; I mean that in virtually every possible way.

I tried to endure the last couple of seasons and the blunders made by Riot, I even defended some of their decisions for awhile---but I have run out of patience and I have found myself playing this game significantly less and not really missing it. I used to play this game as if there were no tomorrow back in Season 1-4, but it's tough to do it now.

The community is terrible, toxicity is still way out of hand but I could certainly forgive or ignore that if it weren't for the simple fact that this game's balance is just in the shitter. The number one complaint that I have with the game and have seen by so many both here on the Boards and among the few friends that I have that still play is that damage is just too high and games snowball too quickly. Strategy and Skill are tempered by who can press a button the fastest and who picked the champion that does the most damage in the shortest amount of time.

This isn't the game I fell in love with, at all.

"So why don't you just uninstall?" Maybe I should, but truthfully I've been trying to express my opinions about the state of the game for a long time and obviously Riot isn't listening. I know I throw out my share of snarky responses to posts here, but I used to write these long, well-thought-out, reasonable posts and never had one Rioter response... all the way back to 2011...

After awhile, you just see Riot ignoring the community as a whole and it pisses you off, sometimes they write some blatant bullshit that is even more frustrating... such as the most recent "Quick Gameplay Thoughts" where they say that they don't really think games are more snowbally because they surveyed a whole one-hundred people. Of course, this goes along nicely with their tone-deaf attitudes about a lot of things through the years, most recently URF, but certainly things like Team Builder, the Dynamic Queue fiasco of Season 6, the terrible reworks/class updates, etc etc... There's practically no accountability...

Just once I'd love to see Riot offer up a mea culpa and say "yeah, we fucked up real bad on that one, sorry folks". Instead we get a lot of mysterious data for why they make these decisions (data that never gets shown or is so vague that it offers no real insight).

The preseason changes and the Blue Essence nightmare were really the last straw for me. I haven't played in over a week and I'm not really missing it. I don't know... maybe I'm just a part of the growing sect of dissatisfied customers.

Given all of that, how can one be positive about the state of the game?

Crimsonkapa5 votes

Just gonna throw this out there that Riot has MULTIPLE TIMES admitted when they've screwed up, so your whole bit on "Riot offering a mea culpa" is dramaticized fake news. I mean shit, Cactopus not so long ago quite literally called dynamic que something along the lines of a steaming trash heap of a mistake.

Scary Door6 votes

Citation required.

RiotRiot Calad13 votes

Here you go.

We launched this system earlier this week, so it's probably a little early to compare it to Dynamic Queue, which was a slow motion shitshow of a disaster that lasted half a season.

I'm definitely in favor of more people demanding citations. It can get frustrating when things get taken out of context to support a particular agenda.

Look, I'll even add a bonus citation.

Oh I think lots of people called it a shitshow.

I would also personally call it an "unmitigated fuckup carnival" and an "emotional chernobyl."

But hey, that's just me.

AirKingNeo3 votes

[deleted]

Xeneth3 votes

One person's list of what changes are and are not "failures" is NOT going to line up with another person's list, Rioter or not!

This one example is something most people can rally around as an agreed upon failure.

Lots of old school Fiora mains might consider that to be a failed rework, but do you really expect a Rioter to "own up" to that "mistake" when their metrics show them that the Grand Duelist sees more healthy play in a week than she got in months back then?

Most of the time the best they can do is politely agree to disagree with a vocal minority, apologize for the disruption while continuing to do their best. I've worked for developers that try to bend over backwards implementing the armchair design whims of a vocal minority, and boy oh BOY does it result in a sloppy, unfun video game!

AirKingNeo3 votes

Ok, but I'm still talking about actual failures. Patch 7.24b is a failure because it failed it's objective. Runes Reforged is a failure because 1/5th of the champions do not have a viable rune page.

Electro5222 votes

If I recall, 80% is a B - .....

I'm not saying there are not problems with Runes, and agree with you that there are champs who were left out in the dust. However, there are plenty of people that are very happy with new runes, and what they've done for the game.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Do you think it's fair to think, "We made all these runes, but why are none of them viable for melee bruisers and melee fighters?"

Electro5221 votes

Grasp of the Undying? Electrocute? Phase Rush? And in some cases, even Press the Attack.

Yes, as the dust settled, we found out that options on other champs crowded out those options, and some champs still didn't like these. But you can't say they didn't try to give those champs options.

I think I also mentioned this somewhere else, but we can test out changes FAR more than Riot can. I think Meddler even once said they get more data on changes in the first 24 hours of making one than they do in all of internal testing, and PBE.

And, they are already developing a new keystone specifically aimed at champs such as bruisers. They realized that what they tried didn't work, and are working on fixing that.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Grasp is a tank rune. It doesn't provide the damage for a bruiser to use it well. It's just freakishly overpowered enough for some bruisers to use it. Electrocute is an assassin rune. Bruisers are DPS champions, not burst. Phase Rush is a mage rune. It doesn't give the damage bruisers need. Press the Attack is a marksmen rune. It doesn't deal extra damage if melee, which is why bruisers don't use it anymore.

Yes, I can say they gave 0 options to bruisers. Literally, each rune tree represents a class. Precision for marksmen, Sorcery for mages, Domination for assassins, Resolve for tanks, and Inspiration for supports. There is no tree for bruisers/skirmishers.

I don't really give a shit about who tests what. It's very obvious bruisers got fucked over again because Riot has a very large bias against them. Bruiser update 2013? Cancelled. Bruiser update 2014? Cancelled. Bruiser update? No, tank update. Bruiser update? Rune update, also, fuck you, you don't get a rune tree while every other class gets one.

Why should bruisers get 1 keystone while everyone else gets 3? You cannot be a Riot designer and always ignore bruisers every step of the way without being biased.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=UA79L6EJ,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-11T16:30:50.788+0000)

You know what I am tired of? people that suck Riots dick. Riot is capable of taking criticism, they don't need white knights, they get payed a lot of money. You really think some criticism is going to hurt their feelings? No, so stop whining about people validly criticizing riot.

From what I remember your particular criticisms (at least the ones I saw in the past week or so) were not valid. You spewed venom at Riot over things that had reasonable explanations or that were going to be fixed, and you ignored or attacked anybody who said anything in favor of Riot.

I swear you people that defend Riot are like those ass weasels that say "EA did nothing wrong". Get some damn common sense.

None of us ever said EA did nothing wrong. In fact I think I was quite vocal about how shitty EA was for doing what they did. Don't put words in our mouths just to make it easier for you to hate on us. That's misleading, both to yourself and to others.

Makes me embarrassed that I play the same game with people that have no common sense and white knight for a big ass multimillion dollar company that is doing scummy crap and generally ignoring its customers.

Riot has a long way to go before it can be thought of as having done enough to interact and work with it's customers, but it is far from the worst company in that regard. They do interact with us, a lot more than other game companies do or would. So maybe instead of getting on a high horse and acting superior to everyone you should be grateful that we have as much interaction with Riot as we do.

Spewing poison like you do everywhere certainly isn't going to help foster an environment where Riot will interact with us more. If you want that problem to be solved then stop contributing to it.

Jinx Hunter3 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller12 votes

I've made my point already and it seems people agree. So there's no need for me to engage here after this. you're acting like an ass and it only reflects poorly on yourself. You do you buddy, but the sooner you learn to behave respectably the sooner people will respect your opinions.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Jinx Hunter2 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller13 votes

Arguing is not about "beating" people, it is about being persuasive. You aren't doing that. So there's no point in discussing it with you.

BloodbornS10 votes

I think people like you are forgetting that behind the company Riot there are real people. People like you and me and yes they do get paid for developing League but they are not obligated to answer our questions and interact with the community. They could just do it like many other game companies these days, ignoring the community unless theres something really hurting their income (like the lootbox controversy). And by the way I am by no means a 'white knight' or how you call it, I am well aware of current problems and I think we should critcize them for it. Yet theres a difference between valid criticism with objective arguments and whining. Quite some posts these days consist of nothing but 'the game has gotten so shit lately' or 'nerf xy champion because they killed me in the last game'. These types of post contribute nothing.

But knowing that you will either ignore me or insult me. Peace ot bro.[slayer-jinx-wink]

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