most of the people who i see cry about him, i look at the match history, and see the rengar with 
as their build.
you put that build on ANY champion and they can 1 shot squishies and melt tanks like its nothing.
edit; buy pink wards. when you see a ! over your head drop a pink. invest in a GA as well early if you're an ADC. problems solved.
360D3GR3SS7 votesBut rengar does it excpetionally well because he has a massive gap closer and surprise mechanic.
Chuck Charles5 votesits not that rengar is overpowered. its that his kit offers little to no counterplay. if he is super fed and you are even slightly away from your team. (i mean they could be right next to you even) you are going to explode before you can even react. I've seen some people resort to zhonyas on an adc because their isn't much else they can do. and even then you cant react fast enough. you just blow up. anything without counterplay is quite frustrating.
for all the QQ about annie at least you see her coming and at least you can be cleansed and flash out MAYBE. with rengar you just are walking and one second later you are gone.
it's not that he's too strong. its that his kit is insanely un fun to play against.
dannykun1 votescouldn't have said it better. There's other champions that are completely unfun when they get ahead because they can literally one shot you so fast you can't react, but Rengar's is king because he can come out of nowhere, and literally burn your ADC or any Squishy with less time to react than a Kat Cleanup situation. It's REALLY bad.
Sheldons3 votesthey essentially gave evelynns identity to him. nerfed the shit out of evelynns stealth only to give it to rengar PLUS enough burst to oneshot. eve never had that with her old stealth unless she build alot of ap.
khorney1 votesHe isn't coming fromm nowhere. Little thing called a indicater and 2 I see many rengars attack turrets wrong FYI your q does not work on turrets so stop wasting your stacks.
dannykun1 votesIf they made the indicator more obvious you'd have a point. But a little exclaimation point isn't giving you enough time to react to anything. The reality is far different than theory. Something Like nocturns obvious activation of his ult, It's obvious and never needed a range indicator because even if he jumped on you he couldn't 1 shot you once he got there.
Vicarious1171 votesNo, as someone who does play Rengar a lot and knows exactly when the indicator pops up, when I'm not on Rengar and an enemy is, I NEVER MISS IT! It's the most obvious damn thing, you even get a little fucking sound when it pops up, I seriously never understand when people miss it, unless ofc you're in the middle of a big teamfight, but in which case ANY assassin can flank into it just as well (but most others can also then escape, unlike Rengar).
dannykun1 votesAgain reality different from theory, you play rengar, so you're so familiar with his kit that you know what to look for and other much less obvious signs as well. Seeing as rengar hasn't been a staple in soloq since back in season 2 just about and for a patch when they turned his necklace into a trinket. No one else has the same luxury as you the rengar main.
Vicarious1171 votesHe's actually played quite often atm, and last season he was one of the top played junglers, so what you said is simply untrue.
But people not "having the luxury" of being able to spot something in the game, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed or adjusted, it means they need to make the luxury or stop crying about not making the effort to improve.
pE4CbxDPQO1 votesHe isn't coming fromm nowhere. Little thing called a indicater and 2 I see many rengars attack turrets wrong FYI your q does not work on turrets so stop wasting your stacks.
you still get the auto reset
khorney1 votesso u in turn take down the turrets slower but hey thats on you. in efficient thus it does nothing to help you out. some advice get 5 stacks q a cs then contiue attcking the cs becuase you gain the damage and attack speed and keep building stacks. your q does nothing to turrets as a result but the way i do is better becuase you gain attack speed damage and thus turrets get destroyed faster
Vicarious1171 votesNo, the fastest way to kill a tower as Rengar is to use the Q to aa reset, then when minions get there or if they're already there turn to use that same Q (so it isn't wasted) to hit the minions and get fero stacks, along with your E and W ofc. Then once you hit 5 fero, if you're not at that already, activate the emp Q and HIT THE DAMN TOWER so you get the aa reset and then quickly turn and use that same emp Q on a minion to get the attack speed buff without wasting the fero.
Hitting the tower with the Q doesn't use it up since it doesn't activate the damage, so it stays on you for the full duration, which means you can hit the tower AND then a minion as well. A regular Q though, might as well just use it to aa reset even when there are no minions, the CD is low enough that it'll be back up for a minion wave anyway.
So yeah if people use it without minions to hit, then they're definitely wasting all their stacks, but if you're not aa resetting on the tower before hitting the minions you're just wasting a lot of time.
khorney1 votesyou have no idea how rengar works ..... u do not gain the extra damage when u q turrets you do realize that, you get 5 stacks q a cs to gain the extra ad and extra attack speed then contiue attacking turrets but hey you dont want to do things more efficinet not my problem
Vicarious1171 votesYou didn't bother reading anything, did you?
I said it gives you an aa reset, meaning you're aa'ing the tower more, thus killing it faster, I never once said or even slightly implied it still did the damage to the tower.
Try actually reading before acting like such a little shit.
khorney1 votesPeople think you gain the extra damage to the turret. The way I do it is more effective then just q the turrets not gaining stacks losing stackd
Vicarious1171 votesGood thing like I already said I don't think that then, so no the way you do it is not more effective.
khorney1 votesSuit yourself believe what. You want to
Vicarious1171 votesEnglish isn't your first language, is it?
And it doesn't matter what I believe, I am stating a fact here, I am right no matter how many times you try to deny it.
khorney1 votesNo I'm on my phone and the auto correct lol believe what ever you want to
Vicarious1171 votesThat's flat out false, you've had poor grammar on most of your comments and most also have spelling mistakes. If auto correct was causing you issues then there wouldn't be any spelling errors at least.
And like I said, believing hard facts is easy.
khorney1 votesWhat ever you say ohh mighty one, rengar is the 1 champ I know how to use, like you can glitch his passive if you are using ghost and you can e out of his passive and ultimately
khorney1 votesyou will lose your q becuase you only have like 3 secs to use it so the way i do it is better way to do it
Vicarious1171 votesNo, you use the Q on a minion within that three secs to get the stacks/attack speed, nothing is wasted and you kill towers faster.
khorney1 votesYes however I see so many people just q the turrets and not hitting cs I just don't q the turrets more efficient the way I do it
Vicarious1171 votesWhy did you even make a second like of comments? Especially if you're just going to repeat the same thing again?
pE4CbxDPQO1 votesso u in turn take down the turrets slower but hey thats on you. in efficient thus it does nothing to help you out. some advice get 5 stacks q a cs then contiue attcking the cs becuase you gain the damage and attack speed and keep building stacks. your q does nothing to turrets as a result but the way i do is better becuase you gain attack speed damage and thus turrets get destroyed faster
It's not slower than not pressing q lol. Yes your way is best if there is an enemy minion to hit.
khorney1 votesit is slower becuase you will lose nor gain stacks and there will bs cs near the turret you will qwe any cs then attack once u get to 5 stacks to attack it faster and what i always do if the situation allow it is to get a elixer of ruin to really beat down turrets and inhibs faster that is better then getting a ad elixer( i cant remember the name). but lol some one called my build a troll stupid buildbecuase i hate rh, botrk blood thirster , the ad jungle red item, boots of ludicity, lol it was a enemy jungle ekko. i was killing him fast and that is with me not using ult and him using his moves on me and not doing damage lol. and he said i was hacking becuase he would fight me i would ult while fighting him my ult would kick in i would jump on him and yes i would still be next to him get more stacks and kill him with ou tlosing hp, i get bored so i use different builds alot for the hell of it
IcyPepper4 votesWouldn't LW be more effective than phantom dancer?
Crowe Stalker4 votesCorrection: 
> . Phantom Dancer shouldn't even be in that build, OP needs a 
PiVoRx4 votesbut only rengar does it from invisibility with gap closer with a range of flash
ApexInTheCircle3 votesbut only rengar does it from invisibility with gap closer with a range of flash
With his necklace stack that gives him increased lunge speed it's way more than flash. It's actually relatable to a Trist jump.
Vicarious1173 votesThe problem is the stealth and that a lot of people simply do not notice the little marker on their heads until it's too late.
But the reality here is that if a Rengar can jump a carry and then just walk away then either that carry was just out of position or their team didn't do anything about it, I mean ffs Rengar literally has no escapes in his kit and can only escape using his ult if he preemptively uses it (which isn't really an escape) or if he's tanky, in which case he won't be 100-0ing your carries.
People are crying about "little to no counterplay on his ult," but he is literally the easiest assassin in the game to counter. I feel like part of why some people cry so much about him is that he's great at pointing out to you that YOU fucked up and didn't position well, which makes them angry enough in general to rage about it and openly blame Rengar as a champ instead of admitting their own mistakes.
dannykun4 votesso how do I go from lane to lane? cause there's enough bushes for him to come out and 100-0 you that he doesn't really care if you aren't out of position. It's the speed of burst that's the problem anyway, sure your team can kill him, AFTER he's killed his target. He's generally not hindered by the usual cast times or animation lags that plague other assassins and burst casters. He gets to do ALL of his damage IMMEDIATELY after he gets in range, and his ult lets him get in for free.
Vicarious1173 votesNo, he can only 100-0 a target when hella fed, 9 times out of 10 he can be cc'd before his target implodes.
Also wards and upgraded lens, if you have proper wards then you can safely move through the jungle and not worry about him jumping you (if youre a squishy you shouldnt be moving through any jungle by yourself anyway, at least not when you have no vision, that's a very bronze move). And dropping a pink ward near a siege set up or simply using red lens when you spot the exclamation mark and BOOM he can no longer sneak up on you.
Do these things and he CANNOT assassinate you, like I said, he is the EASIEST assassin in the game to counter.
dannykun3 votesoracles has shorter range than his leap so red lens is not the most reliable, and pink ward can be used, assuming you know what direction he's coming from. But the thing is that if he sets himself up to be at 3 stacks he can assassinate with very few items because he can reset his q by getting his empowered version. It's more that a smart rengar can use his impressive damage to deal it in incredibly short areas of time.
Vicarious1171 votesOracles is most definitely reliable, if you're grouped LIKE YOU SHOULD BE and you see the exclamation on anyone then drop it on your carries, the ones he'll jump, and he can no longer get close cause the team is there.
And you don't need to know the direction he's coming, the carries should be behind their front lines, and that's where the pink should be as well.
It's extremely easy to do both these things, and they both completely shut down an assassin Rengar, it's part of the reason why I prefer bruiser Rengar, it's harder to play and doesn't snowball as hard, but you can't be 100% shut down by a couple items that might only be trinkets.
dannykun3 votesyou obviously don't know how oracles works, the range on it is SHORTER than Rengars leap. Meaning he's already JUMPING before oracles would reveal him, and behind the front line means shit when you can easily be flanked (which most assassins that don't have massive zed range do). You need to be surrounded if you really wanted true protection. Assassin rengar tends to get his target then die in teamfights, which is why he never initiates. He waits for the fight to be going and then dives the carry once everyone's distracted, at this point even with great reflexes he is going to deal more than enough damage to kill an ADC, and at that point you can collapse and kill him sure, but he's got the ADC he did what he came to do so there isn't much of a point. It's that there's no counterplay because oracles range got nerfed, you can't see him coming unless he's not coming after you, there's very few countermeasures to his fast burst. He should really just get something that delays his burst by a bit so that there is a form of reliable counterplay, a cast time or animation lag would suffice. Then an adc could flash if they have enough reflexes, Even Kat is countered by the fact that if she isn't so fed that her qwe combo doesn't kill her target she needs to wait long enough for her ult to do that, in that time you can at least escape her.
Vicarious1171 votesOmg that wall of text... dude structure your damn posts, that wall hurts the eyes!
But it doesn't matter if it's shorter then his leap, cause the exclamation point is longer then the leap, so you see it first, and if you're not positioned like a bronze as a squishy carry you'll have teammates near you who will get the mark long before you do so you guys will EASILY see him coming.
And when you described his role in teamfights, you literally just described every single assassin in the game, except many others can also get back out instead of also then dying like Rengar always will.
But they can't really nerf him like that, cause he's already easy as shit to counter, giving MORE counterplay would almost completely nullify him, which isn't fair to any Rengar players since he won't be even relatively viable. That's not even close to good balancing.
Finally, you just said, "if Kat isn't fed," then said she has to wait for her damage..... you do realize how wrong that logic is, yeah? By those standards, I can say "if Rengar isn't fed, he won't one shot you and you can then kite him or use any kind of cc on him!" If an assassin isn't fed, they ALL have problems!!!! lol
dannykun4 votesYeah sure wall of text got it.
So yes I get a warning, but what can I do to predict past that is the issue you still aren't really dealing with. Does counterplay mean that everyone has to walk around in pairs to ensure that you don't get totally destroyed when you want to go to another lane?
Btw my complaint is the speed of the burst not that he can do what an assassin is meant to do which is combo out to kill a squishy. It's that with every other assassin they have to at the very least deal damage that takes a little longer than 1 second. Rengar has near instantaneous damage which is what leads to the lack of counterplay.
If nerfing the speed of his combo means we have to give him an out, by all means, do it.
Vicarious1171 votes
All of those champs, every single one of them, when fed and building straight damage like assassin Rengar does, can 100-0 a champ just as fast as Rengar can. That's simply a fact, because when those champs are fed and burst someone, it's an instantaneous 100-0 for squishies, so Rengar cannot do it any faster.
Rengar ofc has long stealth, which is the one thing that differentiates him so that's what I assumed you were referring to, cause the speed it happens at simply put is a retarded argument, since as I just stated it's not unique to him.
And yes, when an assassin on the other team is fed, squishy carry targets MUST travel in at least pairs, that's how you counter ALL assassins, Rengar is no exception, he's just far easier to deal with if you're actually trying to do so.
dannykun2 votesIt takes rengar a lot less to get to that point, it's the speed of his burst that's the problem. Scaling would be fine if the target at the very least has a chance at counterplay, and half of these champs are countered by QSS.
Remove the CC and you can survive, Zed is especially devistated by QSS despite being AD, and Lee is countered by at least being able to dodge his skill shots, and his burst takes forever anyway, a smart flash or using a little mobility to dodge his q basically negates any options he had. you can see the other half coming from a mile away, If annie one shot you by walking into Range, you were dumb enough to let her. Burning Summoners is acceptable because of the 5 minute CD on it, you can be killed by this a total of 6 times in a 30 minute game assuming they use it on CD, so it's not like it's Extremely oppressive and can completely snowball somebody.
Then there's the overly nerfed Kass, he doesn't have nearly enough Damage to kill anyone in his current state (yes he can still get kills, but he is either famine or less famine with what they've done to his kit.) So far the only champ I'm seeing with A completely zero counterplay kit is a very fed Kat or LB. QSS doesn't work on their kit in a way that devistates their damage completely, though legion can make their lives more difficult, especially if the ADC goes spirit visage or Maw to give them a chance against AP assassins.
If the AD items had a solid way to counter AD assassins you know that Every single assassin main would rage so hard. Giving a ranged Carry the 
passive would give an ADC at least something decent to itemize against Assassins and AP burst, but the item itself is completely subpar for ADC's that want to do any damage. It really comes down to the fact that Rengar has no strong way of being countered build wise. Every other Assassin has an item or two that can at least help a squishy manage against them if they play smart. Rengar simply doesn't have that at the moment.
Vicarious1171 votesRight, they have items that counter them, something squishy targets can build to help them out against assassins.
So for Rengar just buy a fucking pink ward and upgraded sweeper and pay the fuck attention! Most of the times I do end up getting an assassination on a target without being in a teamfight already I literally walk around their teammates who all get the exclamation point and most of them do not even react! I can bet 99.99% that the people complaining about Rengar are in this group of people, they simply are not paying attention.
As for in teamfights, 99% of the time the Rengar won't be fed enough to instantly 100-0 without a warning, those are outlier situations that Rengar haters like to focus on, so when he jumps in he can be cc'd to oblivion, just a fact, no matter how many videos of a fed Rengar several levels ahead of a feeding adc who isn't paying attention instantly killing said adc won't change the fact that those are not even 5% of most games with a Rengar.
I can easily raise you a Riven or Katarina 1v5'ing for a penta, a Talon instantly deleting 2-3 targets as fast as those Rengar vids, a Lee Sin hitting one Q then just R for an instant kill, or a Diana flying in and 100-0 killing multiple targets who can't escape her multiple dash resets, I even saw a vid recently of a full AD Darius literally kill squishies with one auto. They're OUTLIERS, so they don't get nerfed because that would be utterly ridiculous!
And I see you're trying to make an argument that all the other assassins have item counters or they don't do enough damage to be considered "100-0 possible." You forget that I'm speaking in the same terms you have been for Rengar this entire time! When every single one of those champions BUILDS FULL DAMAGE and then GETS FED, they can all 100-0 a target, but the majority of them all have ways of escaping afterwards, something Rengar does not have.
dannykun1 votesYou can see the idicator, but it's not the most obvious thing. They need to give a real warning like how they've done noc's ult. You know it's happening because the entire screen changes and warns you that things are going on.
Also Rengar needs 2 items to be able to kill a target nearly instantly. Tri-Force and any High AD item. He doesn't need the same setup that other champs need to be able to kill others, his kit is extremely strong with just a spell blade effect and some damage. You're talking about full builds, but Rengar has the most rediculous powerspike with just Sheen and nothing else. Again at endgame Rengar is literally the same as any other assassin, it's that stupidly high powerspike that is the real issue.
Vicarious1172 votesThey tried the noc level indicator on him while they were first reworking him, but they ultimately decided to not go that route because it made it so Rengar could never actually get on a target since they all ran before he was in jumping range. So they added a massive speed boost so he could catch up to people, but then scrapped that because the ridiculous amount of warning meant he could never truly assassinate anyone, in that unless they were alone they always had people around them ready to deny him. Next they gave him the ability to restealth, like Kha'Zix, once after he first unstealthed, so he could jump into a team or just multiple targets then stealth again if it got too dicy, but that was removed cause it was in fact too strong. So finally they just gave him a Master Yi styled speed boost, but faster, however trashed it cause it was boring and awful.
So they finally rested on what we have now, speed boost AFTER the ult and an indicator warning, which started as an automatic ping, then changed to his targets hearing him say something, but it was made just an exclamation point when those turned out to make Rengar too weak.
THIS HAS ALL BEEN TESTED BEFORE! Anything more and he simply won't even be viable AT ALL! You can go look up all the notes posted on the old forums about the Rengar testing if you don't believe me, they're still all there!
And... did you seriously just say Tri-force?.... you really don't understand anything about Rengar then..... there are literally no good Rengar mains who build that. And no, I'm not talking full builds, nice assumption though.
dannykun1 votesOld rengar builds still has the same problem as new rengar builds. His burst is too fast and can't be countered effectively. Yes the indicator has been tried I've seen some of the past experiments. The voice was honestly probably the best method they had, I remember that I would always make my way to my tower when I heard his VO. It allowed me as a support or ADC to at the very least prepare myself.
His kit simply has poppy lvl issues, just like it always has. His issue is lacking counterplay due to the speed of his burst instead of being invulnerable, and it's so hard to tune his numbers because he has the power of LB's old "golden combo" but does it faster because he has almost no windup animation and instantly refreshes at 5 fero. so just by activating q then activating it again immediately after you can deal a TON of damage, combine that with his w and you've got a more than likely dead ADC or other squishy with just an IE and maybe a ghostblade, and there wasn't much that could be done by any one person.
alfavhunter2 votesso how do I go from lane to lane? cause there's enough bushes for him to come out and 100-0 you that he doesn't really care if you aren't out of position. It's the speed of burst that's the problem anyway, sure your team can kill him, AFTER he's killed his target. He's generally not hindered by the usual cast times or animation lags that plague other assassins and burst casters. He gets to do ALL of his damage IMMEDIATELY after he gets in range, and his ult lets him get in for free.
As Janna support I've stopped rengar assassinations
R instantly. q after
Reaction speed is a big part of it
I've also use upgraded sweaper lense to make rengar a cry as say, braum
The support protects the adc, bad support = easy assassination
Edit: also warding is a teams job, not just the support, adc should stick with their support at that point in the game
dannykun2 votesPeel supports are kinda outliers in the support pool, currently you have a total of 3 champs with actual peel kits, Janna, Nami, and Karma. one of which isn't even that good at peel, and is better suited to go AP for hard poke. Granted I use Nami to stop all assassin's in their tracks because it's the easiest win you'll ever make in solo q. I do get what you are saying, and you are right supports should be there, but the number of supports who can actually peel something that's already made it to your adc is limited to about those three, and maybe a good lulu/raka. the rest can't actually pull him off their ADC fast enough.
alfavhunter1 votesPeel supports are kinda outliers in the support pool, currently you have a total of 3 champs with actual peel kits, Janna, Nami, and Karma. one of which isn't even that good at peel, and is better suited to go AP for hard poke. Granted I use Nami to stop all assassin's in their tracks because it's the easiest win you'll ever make in solo q. I do get what you are saying, and you are right supports should be there, but the number of supports who can actually peel something that's already made it to your adc is limited to about those three, and maybe a good lulu/raka. the rest can't actually pull him off their ADC fast enough.
Naught and blitz can if u time it right as well as thresh, I pissed a rengar off by pulling him off my adc as he was jumping so he didn't get to do damage, was rly funny
Lugg2 votesHate to tell you this, but you are dead as soon as the pink ward hits the ground.
