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i feel like all of the people commenting in favor of the support item changes arent support players

ScarnMichaelScar·11/24/2019, 12:35:33 PM·74 votes·17,033 views

i've been playing support pretty much exclusively since s4. i occasionally play other lanes, but support is where i prefer to be most of the time. its VERY clear that this preseason was a HUGE nerf to supports(unless youre senna. then its tailored to your exact playstyle).

i don't know how anyone who regularly plays support would see it as anything different. i really get a strong feeling the people in favor of these changes are actually just people who think supports should be nothing but ward bots.

45 Comments

Illabethe11/24/2019, 3:04:07 PM9 votes

Yes and No.

Here's what I wrote in another thread:

Here's my feeling on the support items:

  1. They actually are fair when you are the stronger bot laners. They SUCK when you are countered and cannot use them. When you cannot poke because poking would result in counterpoke which is much stronger, or even a hard CC, you're screwed. You will take 20+ minutes to quest. When you are the strong lane, your Quest for wards will finish about 2-3 minutes later than the old support items, but your overall accumulation, item advantage, will generally enable a strong lead anyways, due to takedown opportunities increasing.

  2. The timing of gold accumulation is a problem. Old items allowed the 500 Quest to generally give you wards before most junglers would challenge Drakes. Now, the items are finishing the 500 mark by about 11 minutes when playing well, 2-3 minutes AFTER the first drake is contested. Control wards only go so far.

On Nami, I used to get the Quest in under 9 minutes. Why is this happening? Isn't the Tier 1 gold higher now?

  1. Mana regen has made costs more selective and passive. This is why my Nami is now lucky to get 500G by 11 minutes. I used to be able to economize around Manaflow Band alone, and W > Auto > Q and pick up my 3 stacks whenever Manaflow went off cooldown. Now..... if you do that you will run out of mana by 6 minutes. In other words, support item procs no longer synergize well with Manaflow band, even though "it's what we have."

  2. The late game penalty needs removed.

The Good: All Support items can now be used by ALL champions.

#I cannot understress the value of this. Do you expect to be countered by Jhin as Senna? buy item 3854 instead of item 3862 . Poke Minions instead of champions so you can farm gold at a safe range, have a little more HP to take the occasional shot.

Poke lane for Nami? go item 3858 Instead of item 3850

Making these choices are going to be pivotal to your season 10 climb

In Other words, if you have the advantageous picks, I'm still arguing the support items are fine.

I'm ending games as Morgana/Senna/Nami with very similar gold to what I was getting, and pretty close to matching my teams (I'm very gold savvy as a Support). If my carries are getting 11-12k Gold, I'm ending at 10-11k Gold. If they are ending 16-20k. I'm ending 14k.

BUT ONLY IF I WASN'T HARD COUNTERED.

If you are hard countered, you really feel the difference.

thefatlazycat11/24/2019, 2:58:47 PM7 votes

I agree, the changes are what pushed me to move my swain to bottom lane. Riot actively nerfed most supports and the only way these changes come out as positive is if the game is only 20 minutes, which honestly doesn't make for a fun game anyways

DeracadaVenom11/24/2019, 11:45:47 PM6 votes

Theyre making them to favor mages and fighters as supports. Not actual supports.

Ashe mage AD11/24/2019, 1:12:52 PM5 votes

I've been maining support for entire seasons before and these changes are the reason I'm coming back to it now <.< But I'll give you this much, the reason I'm coming back is cuz I can now rush Luden's and the likes. I've no intention playing traditional supports much outside of Nami.

Sir Inugami11/25/2019, 6:58:02 AM5 votes

Both Support and Jungle are left feeling significantly weaker by the changes. While Riot had good intentions with the changes on both fields, it didn't go as they saw on paper. In no circumstance should the Support role be generating between ~2,000-3,000 less gold by the end of a game on average compared to pre-patch... nor should the Jungler be Level 5 when the SLs are 7 (or 6 when 8/9).

Silent Reaper11/24/2019, 11:51:45 PM4 votes

Hi I'm one of the people who played support, since before season 1. I've played support season 9 for about 800 games. (Mostly Nami/Leona)

I can tell you without a doubt these changes made bot lane MUCH better and WAY fairer. People are getting exploded less, and adc's actually have a chance to show their skill in bot lane instead of being at the mercy of heavy engage champs like Leona or Poke champions like Xerath.

TonyTonyMordecai11/24/2019, 6:27:57 PM4 votes

They're good because they let you start your build earlier. They suck because you lose out on the other passive effects that were there before (healing from relic gone, mana regen, health regen gone, faster relic recharge with upgrades gone), and the gold passive LEAVES after 1500 gold. So what, I have to pick a champion that can clear waves quickly to get gold and still be there to help my team? If that's the case, why am I penalized by "farming too much" even after the quest is fully completed? Why am I rewarded for stealing minions from the people who need that gold more? I could care less about having 4 wards available. The only reason I'm able to function as a "support" is because the one game I played as Lulu I took a lot of bounties and kills and got to full build and was ready to kill, and I've been playing Pantheon support with my friend so I've had killing and roaming power, and the ability to clear waves when alone. Not even mentioning Senna. I have yet to try Sona with the new item, shouldn't be too different, except I have to either go relic to save my mana for heals or spellthiefs to get gold from pokes and burn through my mana, until I get tear, but that puts me 850 gold behind my core items (unless I go future market). I'm salty about a few things, but I hope they change them to not be one-sided.

GigglesO11/24/2019, 11:28:51 PM4 votes

the only change I like is that frost line doesn't deal 15 damage to enemy champs every hit.

The rest of it feels like garbage.

TobiaskJ11/25/2019, 12:03:47 AM3 votes

So

In other words, in late game, no matter how active you are as support, you get the same amount of gold as an AFK support sitting in base. (past the 15 min mark) wtf is this?

Disembark11/25/2019, 2:44:54 AM3 votes

Support main here. Supports needed a nerf. Busted role.

xHeimtechZX11/24/2019, 11:57:25 PM2 votes

But I love being a ward bot :( Support role change all the time. I loved it when you could just buy wards, lit up the entire map and it was easy to make plays. Now it takes too long to get to tier 2. We can win lane before tier 2 sometimes. This is why I didn't complain about season 9. It made support fun for everyone (or well...appealed to other players). Ap carry supports, Pyke, standard supports, they were all fun for me. Before I played Janna support a ton and now I have a larger selection. Right now, I just think the items need to be tweaked again. Some ideas are cool but implemented poorly. Especially the cs gold debuff, very unfun. If we're pushed by super minions, having that cs debuff just sucks. Or an AP carry support when we have an ad assassin mid or something, can't transition as well with the cs debuff. But someone needs to ward and clear wards. At least Thresh support is still feeling really great right now. Been having too much fun with him.

NTrumpWeTrust11/25/2019, 11:32:51 PM2 votes

The problem is that it's a nerf, but the nerf affects a subclass of supports that was already struggling, mostly due to the mana regen removal on spellthief. All the OP engage supports have maintained their winrates because they didn't really lose anything, and let's be real, being unkillable with aftershock and the ability to win lane/game by throwing out a random hook/grab is still busted as all fuck. The only reason Senna is doing well is because she's overtuned (so are the other top supports in terms of raw stats namely leona/naut) and she can actually punish the melee supports in lane unlike the enchanters.

NaughtyWord11/24/2019, 10:34:36 PM2 votes

I have mixed feelings about the new support items.

Some things I like and some things I don't like.

hiyares11/24/2019, 9:39:54 PM2 votes

So i started playing this game at the end of season 1 but didnt really get into it till mid season 2 where i started as a support and honestly i still enjoy playing support but the problem with al lthis freed up gold makes it so annoying when you just see mages and now ranged ad being able to just abuse their base damages to force out laners. my biggest issue is that even with these current changes it hasnt changed the kill lane mentality much at all as a matter of fact i have been seeing crap like Swain Annie Brand Galio Malphite Poppy Pyke Sion Zyra Zilean Velkoz Veigar going full damage or full tank in the bot lane that is not and well never be a support its a kill lane simple as that if you are gonna try and tell me you are laying support but running item 3285 item 3151 item 3165 item 3152 item 3089 you are delusional seriously.

honestly support has not felt like an actual "support" role in years and i left the lane when nothing but mages that could burst were meta

Magnesium1411/25/2019, 9:57:45 PM2 votes

The only enchanter that is still playable in any manner is Ivern and thats because he is a jungler and also technically a catcher

Grouchy Poro11/24/2019, 11:07:56 PM2 votes

support items need a revert then a buff because support have some of the most expensive items while adc get 2k gold crit items gold has always been an issue for supports my adc backs with 2 kills and 100 cs 3k gold i have 2 assists and 20 relic bashes and i only have 1200 gold

XJ9999999999999911/25/2019, 12:55:36 AM1 votes

supports get the same gold till late game. means they need towers/assists/kills to get income, aka be a support.

JRobin3111/25/2019, 4:22:09 PM1 votes

Season 9, I migrated from jungle to support because the jungle changes were so bad. Maybe I'll migrate to another role Season 10, if the support changes are really bad.

If I had to guess, I'd say that RIOT was looking to get rid of some of the power supports have in the game. But I expect that there would also be nerfs to Pyke's gold generation and other important nerfs if RIOT is really serious about this direction. So I really don't know what RIOT is trying to accomplish here. Their reason given is: "We're refreshing support items to be less poachable by solo laners and have an expanded quest system that provides free, automatic upgrades, letting supports start the rest of their build earlier."

And this doesn't exactly make sense to me. I don't see a lot of, if any, champions poaching the support items in my games and what I have seen hasn't really been a problem actually. I will say that starting the rest of your build early is much nicer, but I don't really understand the end to gold generation and the reasoning behind preventing poaching. The support items were already difficult to poach.

Diävolo11/25/2019, 11:34:59 AM1 votes

I wanna be honest, the only need of support is to help by warding and healing and dealing damage. None asked for Brand/Lux/Senna/Pyke. Support players love support because they like being the bridge to win a fight. Not because they want to carry the damn game. I see supports carry the game everyday now. The only thing that was supposed to be nerfed in supports is their damage. That's all. Riot fucked it up again