nobody in hots likes that after a certain point(usually at 15-20 minutes) one mess up can throw the game.
nobody in hots likes the idea that you can 5 man premade against a bunch of pugs
nobody in hots likes that games very often snowball super hard and become a stomp by the first 10 minutes
these, and the god-awful matchmaking are why HotS is a dying game.
so why in the world is league adopting these ideas?
Mistikal28 votesIn my own personal OPINION, and yes, I realize opinions on the internet are dangerous things:
eSports were getting stale. the 25 minute laning phase of just last hitting was unappealing to many people. They want to see action, flashy plays, and the enemy team suffer quickly for making a mistake instead of them being able to draw out a game for a 50+ minute wave clear v siege turtle at their inhib turrets only to slowly lose everything, or if your playing DIG, just until baron is up and they throw you the game. eSports = profit. Therefore: cater to your profit maker.
Pretty simple economics really. After all this game was made to create profit. But, like I said, that's only my opinion and is based on absolutely zero hard facts/evidence.
A Miss Fortune28 votesHard to say League is even going to be an actual eSports game with the changes they keep making. The game is becoming less skill oriented every patch.
Retillin23 votesLess skill, and even worse more boring... Lane swaps are bad for viewing. As are taking gromps as a duo lane. And the fear the players have of losing a team fight from 30 min+ prevents fun engages (to watch).
Doctor Dyment3 votesThe best analogy I can think of is like this: During the times of gladiators and the Roman coliseum, thousands would flock to watch the burly warriors battle each other in the ring. Now, what would you rather see? A match where the two gladiators circle each other for the first twenty to thirty minutes, probing for a weakness before then deciding to attack, generally ending in one of the two dead on the ground, or a match that right out of the gate is a slug fest, with each side constantly slamming into each other hoping that they get the advantage? One is clearly more exciting to watch than the other to many people, and those many people are the ones who make the people who run the coliseum money. So it makes sense that the owners would want to cater to those who give them most of their money.
ScarnMichaelScar3 votes[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA3s2YVA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-06T21:52:59.573+0000)
The best analogy I can think of is like this: During the times of gladiators and the Roman coliseum, thousands would flock to watch the burly warriors battle each other in the ring. Now, what would you rather see? A match where the two gladiators circle each other for the first twenty to thirty minutes, probing for a weakness before then deciding to attack, generally ending in one of the two dead on the ground, or a match that right out of the gate is a slug fest, with each side constantly slamming into each other hoping that they get the advantage? One is clearly more exciting to watch than the other to many people, and those many people are the ones who make the people who run the coliseum money. So it makes sense that the owners would want to cater to those who give them most of their money.
except that there are dozens of champs who don't fit in the "come swinging right out the gate" tactics. its all about mid game power spikes, and late game champs cannot keep up with it.
you can't drastically change the game from its core in the course of one season (season 5), and leave a bunch of champions sitting in the dust in favor of brand new cool flashy ones. its stupid.
NeoBrawler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA3s2YVA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-06T21:52:59.573+0000)
The best analogy I can think of is like this: During the times of gladiators and the Roman coliseum, thousands would flock to watch the burly warriors battle each other in the ring. Now, what would you rather see? A match where the two gladiators circle each other for the first twenty to thirty minutes, probing for a weakness before then deciding to attack, generally ending in one of the two dead on the ground, or a match that right out of the gate is a slug fest, with each side constantly slamming into each other hoping that they get the advantage? One is clearly more exciting to watch than the other to many people, and those many people are the ones who make the people who run the coliseum money. So it makes sense that the owners would want to cater to those who give them most of their money.
But the tank meta is gone D:
Cavemantero1 votesBut the tank meta is gone D:
Exactly. You're watching executions now, not slug-fests. The game sucks to watch and play now. Its trying to go to COD/Counterstrike levels. They want to try to keep the ADD tards happy out there while leaving those who enjoy watching chess and a REAL boxing match out in the dust.
The problem is the ADD tards will get bored fast and leave soon, while the others would stay until the depth of strategy and tactics is gone. Right now, the strategy and tactics is simply kill the other guy first...and that is as shallow as it gets.
NeoBrawler1 votesExactly. You're watching executions now, not slug-fests. The game sucks to watch and play now. Its trying to go to COD/Counterstrike levels. They want to try to keep the ADD tards happy out there while leaving those who enjoy watching chess and a REAL boxing match out in the dust.
The problem is the ADD tards will get bored fast and leave soon, while the others would stay until the depth of strategy and tactics is gone. Right now, the strategy and tactics is simply kill the other guy first...and that is as shallow as it gets.
As someone with ADHD I would agree that my brethren are not moved by chess unlike me. I do agree that the execution meta we have is lackluster strategy with only ZZ slipt and kill them all being the only viable.
Old Man Teeto1 votesThey don't have a way of fixing lane swaps without making the game stall out longer.
If you make the turrets more resilient in any way -- more armor, health, damage, w/e it just makes taking them harder overall and slows the game.
Unless they did something absolutely insane they can't make teams not do the safest strategy of "Lane Swap" and trade objectives.
D3m37r114 votesThis is why they nerfed 
. Can't let safe lanes be a thing. People might get bored with LCS
-RITO Logic
TacoTheKitten1 votes[deleted]
Knoyle1 votesbut some dude with long hair poking people with a stick is :v
Troll for Trump6 votes
"stick"
thumbnail91 votes[{quoted}](name=King KSer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA3s2YVA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-06T10:26:24.513+0000)
In my own personal OPINION, and yes, I realize opinions on the internet are dangerous things:
eSports were getting stale. the 25 minute laning phase of just last hitting was unappealing to many people. They want to see action, flashy plays, and the enemy team suffer quickly for making a mistake instead of them being able to draw out a game for a 50+ minute wave clear v siege turtle at their inhib turrets only to slowly lose everything, or if your playing DIG, just until baron is up and they throw you the game. eSports = profit. Therefore: cater to your profit maker.
Pretty simple economics really. After all this game was made to create profit. But, like I said, that's only my opinion and is based on absolutely zero hard facts/evidence.
The farming ends at 10 minutes but the games still go another 30m
CurlyFriezzz1 votes[{quoted}](name=King KSer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA3s2YVA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-06T10:26:24.513+0000)
In my own personal OPINION, and yes, I realize opinions on the internet are dangerous things:
eSports were getting stale. the 25 minute laning phase of just last hitting was unappealing to many people. They want to see action, flashy plays, and the enemy team suffer quickly for making a mistake instead of them being able to draw out a game for a 50+ minute wave clear v siege turtle at their inhib turrets only to slowly lose everything, or if your playing DIG, just until baron is up and they throw you the game. eSports = profit. Therefore: cater to your profit maker.
Pretty simple economics really. After all this game was made to create profit. But, like I said, that's only my opinion and is based on absolutely zero hard facts/evidence.
A lot of players in LC$ games are playing really safe now because of how easy it is to melt turrets and ridiculous death timers, making games longer anyway.
Old Man Teeto1 votesThe changes to wave clear/towers/objectives holds true for everything you said.
But da fuck it with death timers then? With such long timers teams just DON'T want to fight unless it's a sure thing because 1 Ace and the game ends after 25 minutes.
Billy VoHagen15 votesnobody likes hots
Fixed that for you.
ScarnMichaelScar4 votes[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA3s2YVA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-06T16:19:51.928+0000)
Fixed that for you.
i loved it. some very very unique hero designs in there, but jesus christ that game is just a mess everywhere except hero design.
Xeynid6 votesHotS removed the 5-man premades in ranked, and HotS NEVER snowballed nearly as hard as league does.
But Riot is really not learning from the mistakes HotS has made.
ScarnMichaelScar1 votesHotS removed the 5-man premades in ranked, and HotS NEVER snowballed nearly as hard as league does.
But Riot is really not learning from the mistakes HotS has made.
hots snowballs way harder than league. in league you can get lucky and either have someone carry you, or you can go crazy and start carrying yourself.
in hots, everyone shares exp. so now that feeder teammate you have is not only making his lane a nightmare. he's making everyone in the enemy team stronger. it really adds up. if you're down by 2-3 levels before 10 odds are you aren't coming back. if you're down 2-3 levels by 16 you're definitely not coming back unless the other team really hard throws the game.
Xeynid1 votesIf you're down 2-3 levels before 10, you're not just behind, you're getting fucked insanely hard.
You could be level 16 to level 19 and still win the game because the only levels that really matter are 4,7,10,13,16, and 20. If both teams are within the same bracket, there's really no difference between them.
ScarnMichaelScar1 votesIf you're down 2-3 levels before 10, you're not just behind, you're getting fucked insanely hard.
You could be level 16 to level 19 and still win the game because the only levels that really matter are 4,7,10,13,16, and 20. If both teams are within the same bracket, there's really no difference between them.
games end up being 2-3 level defecits all of the time. because one person can seriously cancel out his whole team's work by just feeding them ALL exp
Xeynid3 votesAnd then you can cancel out that deficit by getting like 2 kills. And those deaths mean a lot less if their team is ahead.
HotS has a fuckton of comeback mechanics, and they're way easier to use than league's.
oden3211 votesplease explain to me then how i can lose a game due to the simple fact that 1 player ONE PLAYER decides to not go to objectives and fight. atleast in league after x deaths they stop being valued gold and i can actualy carry their ass to a win or better yet they split push and get an inhib.
Xeynid1 votesI'm not saying hots is less team-oriented than league, because it definitely is more team oriented and requires a full team ready to fight.
I'm saying hots doesn't snowball as hard as league because it definitely doesn't.
Dengeden5 votesIs that a serious question or are you just being rhetorical?
If it's the former, well, Riot wants teams to be able to push advantages quicker instead of slowly bleeding out the losing team.
Also, stop looking up everyone before the match starts, all it does is tilt you (quite obviously).
Meep Man5 votesWell, no body that has played League of Legends usually likes any other MOBA to be honest. Why? Because they often compare everything to League very thoroughly as if to check and make sure that it is exactly like LoL, just with different heroes. If it isn't that, then they hate it usually.
Majority of people in HoTS know and accept that, really late in the game, a mistake can seriously screw up the game (and to be honest it should. Team wipes are something not taken seriously enough in LoL and HoTS these days). Majority of people know what an early advantage in HoTS can give you and, often times, the opposing team does not respect that power and work around it, instead opting to rush in stupidly to their deaths. Also, HoTS is not a popular game, but I don't see it dying. Matchmaking has not taken longer for me recently at all.
Basically, what Im saying is stop being the expected LoL player that dislikes every other MOBA and then says they are a bad game. It's annoying to be a part of a community that is so hostile towards any other games like it. Only recently have I seen anyone actually respect some things from DOTA in the LoL community. Can't we just say that you like one game over the other, but they are both decent games instead of praising LoL and being the equivalent of the Solari in the sense that all other MOBAs are shunned and treated like filth to them.
KakitaMike1 votesI feel like LoL is EQ, and nobody's made the moba version of WoW yet to dethrone it. I always wonder if a hard time cap on game's would make them more interesting, or if it would just result in more turtling (if a win went to most towers destroyed at time). As a player who took about a year off and came back in the recent weeks, I definitely feel like games go longer, not shorter.
Arcade Andrew5 votesHots is way better than league though, you know why? Because it's not 45 minutes of farming gold then win one teamfight and win. Also hots had map diversity, and even though all have the same objective (kill the core) the maps feel like different game modes due to the many multiple ways you can kill the core.
Also HOTS instead of deleting a map, only took it out if rotation (haunted mines) but you can still play it in customs
ALSO hots has no gold or items, shared team exp, and smaller maps to revoke the need of any vision granting items.
ALSO the structures can be damaged by abilities or repaired/shielded YET the turrets/keeps don't feel underpowered and you would never want to dive under them.
Now sure their might be balance issues like li Ming
But when 75% of the Heros are all broken AND OP? It doesn't matter anymore because both teams have an annoying OP comp and it just makes the game FUN
ScarnMichaelScar1 votesBut when 75% of the Heros are all broken AND OP? It doesn't matter anymore because both teams have an annoying OP comp and it just makes the game FUN
nowhere near 75% of the heroes are broken and op. Jaina mura, zag, xul, rehgar, li ming, diablo, and thrall are generally picked every game.
when only 10 of 39 heroes have over 50% winrate, with 3 of them being 55-59% you know there's something seriously wrong with balance.
DracosKasu4 votesIn HotS, you have hero who better in some map, witch it is harder to balance. Also each hero have more then 1 build path unlike LoL. LoL cant evn fix their own broken champ and each game share the same hero like HotS also own only 1 playstyle map. Aram arent Aram b cause they refuse to unlock all champ in this play mode witch hero will actually unlock all on it.
Stand Alone Wolf4 votesJaina mura, zag, xul, rehgar, li ming, diablo, and thrall are generally picked every game.
I may need to get my eyes checked, because I read: Janna, Mundo, Zac, Xin, Rengar, Lee Sin, and Teemo.
Seems HotS is trying to copy champs to xD
Cowgirl Ed4 votesbecause riot wants to get rid of this "game" asap so they can start working on other things. actually they are already in the making
Anidan66 votesIt takes a special combination of both a lack of business sense and some heavy-duty doomsday prophesying to come up with that kind of conclusion.
iamthegoatofwar3 votesI won't agree with what he's saying, but i also will not disagree either. Assuming this game is dying as rapidly as people make it sound it is a possibility that riot could be attempting to kill the game. As I said I'm not certain, but assuming he is correct and they believe they have something to gain from it it's rather possible.
Faie8 votesThis game is only getting more popular, even if the boards make it sound like it's dying. There's more people joining than leaving, and nothing about the game is "dying".
YumaS2Astral4 votesThis game is only getting more popular, even if the boards make it sound like it's dying. There's more people joining than leaving, and nothing about the game is "dying".
The game itself is not dying. It is just that it is getting less and less appealing for old players. New players come to LoL and they don't have idea of how much better this game used to be. They do not know Riot's "dirts".
YCitizenSnipsY3 votesPeople get tired of games and move on. Not that hard to understand. Most long time players who blame balance on their reason for leaving would have likely left regardless if the game was exactly like they wanted. New people come in and will likely stick around for a while as there is a lot to learn in this game.
Also a lot of the "how good it used to be" nonsense is just nostalgia, and refusing to acknowledge bad states to the game in the past.
Keevalroy3 votesAlso a lot of the "how good it used to be" nonsense is just nostalgia, and refusing to acknowledge bad states to the game in the past.
How about comparing the bad states of the past to the shit we have now and thinking yeah, I would go back in time in a heartbeat? Wrath of the Lich King had problems - I could go into detail about what I didn't like about it, but it ended up being my favorite expansion of WoW. Since Cata hit, every expansion has made the game feel worse to play, and the community started dropping subscriptions as a result. This isn't as much the "aging" logic you're applying, but more the fact that unwanted changes were being forced and the community was rightly pissed as a result.
Is it nostalgia that I want BC and Wrath back? Or is it that back then Blizzard didn't make such ludicrously idiotic choices that would obviously end up killing their masterpiece and driving away the community that built them up?
"It's just nostalgia." "Take off the rose tinted glasses" "Lol you just can't adapt."
-say the people across all games, not just this one, who are:
a) truly finding enjoyment in the new product for one reason or another.
b) lap-dogging and ass kissing to (insert company) to earn brownie points with them.
or c and what I've noticed most, especially with WoW) players who joined late and have no fucking idea what (insert game) used to feel like because they weren't there at the time.
YCitizenSnipsY3 votesB is a pretty good description of what your doing here on these boards for the others.
We call that a circle jerk.
I don't care about WoW. Don't know why you brought it up. It has nothing to do with this game. Two different companies in two different Genre's. Mr. Fantastic couldn't make that reach.
There have been just as many bad of meta's and champions in the past as their are now. You only choose to remember the past as good. No body cares about the "old players" or balancing the game around their liking. There are plenty more players coming in who can enjoy the game for what it is.
Just stop crying, you know where the uninstall button is.
NeoBrawler1 votesB is a pretty good description of what your doing here on these boards for the others.
We call that a circle jerk.
I don't care about WoW. Don't know why you brought it up. It has nothing to do with this game. Two different companies in two different Genre's. Mr. Fantastic couldn't make that reach.
There have been just as many bad of meta's and champions in the past as their are now. You only choose to remember the past as good. No body cares about the "old players" or balancing the game around their liking. There are plenty more players coming in who can enjoy the game for what it is.
Just stop crying, you know where the uninstall button is.
No, no this is the worst meta by far. I have played for about four years and this is flat out the worst. It's neither fun to win nor lose. You can't see the comparison in the companies choices to change their game that negatively impacted it. Hell, the holy Trinity Meta was better than this because it was only jungle. The tank meta was long but with much more team fights and slug fest fights that was fun. The only time it was really bad was on champion release becuase Riot at the time was working on balance. I have spent money on this game and the company has drastically changed what I loved about it. It was forced and they don't give you an option to revert even if you paid. This isn't a circle jerk. This is a look at what the game has become and the negativity the new changes have brought. Companies usuallu have way more intereste in the whales (people that spend a ton of money kn the game, ususally veterans) than the people that only play for free (usually new players). Riot needs to wake up and actually revert the shit they have done because it will if not is following the ways of blizzard and WoW.
Narasimha4 votesThe game itself is not dying. It is just that it is getting less and less appealing for old players.
Every game gets less and less interesting as you play it more. That's why you take a break, play something else, and then comeback.
YumaS2Astral1 votesEvery game gets less and less interesting as you play it more. That's why you take a break, play something else, and then comeback.
I've played games like The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind countless times and I am yet to have it become less interesting. On Morrowind's case, I am actually starting to want to play it another time.
Though it really depends from the person and the game. There are people like me that can play a game lots of times and not get tired of it.
Anidan2 votesGod damn I love Morrowind. Went on a binge on it not too long ago, and I feel I should play it some more soon. It's a fairly old game now and it still has my attention. That's a fairly impressive trait of a game to me.
A lot of people that are really into a certain game can play it for years on end and not get tired of it. I've been playing a good bit of Smash Bros lately, so I can point to the competitive scene of Super Smash Bros. Melee. The professional players of that game still greatly enjoy the game many years later (even if the game does have a couple of problems from a spectator's point of view).
Ritomyburrito1 votesVery well put. Not to mention the fact that so many champions require precisely ZERO skill to play. Just look at the 3 person malphite ult that completely changed the game week 6 clg vs tsm. Dude pressed ONE button, and THREE PRO LEVEL PLAYERS were unable to avoid this ability at near max range. That is some serious skill there.... I fucking hate riot for what they have done to MOBA.
Myrkrvaldyr1 votesPlay DOTA or Smite? If you want a skill-driven based MOBA you should like Smite a lot.
Solaxo4 votes"dying game" nice joke, most of my friends have dropped league for hots and other games... and this number is increasing
Nilok3 votesPeople got into League of Legends because it was League of Legends, not because it was like Dota 2 or the other MOBAs, but because of how it was different. Trying to follow the pattern of another MOBA changes the gameplay away from what made it unique to try and get a few people, who may have been drawn by the IPs and not the gameplay, only alienates longtime fans and customers as they leave to try and find something else that scratches the itch that League of Legends originally solved.