It's just not a good item, it's never going to be a good item.
Why not just remove wits end and make that the new jungle item? Nobody buys it now because it's too expensive and doesn't offer combat stats in lane. You could make it a bit cheaper, reduce its AS and MR steal accordingly and give it the jungle clear passives.
Just a thought
Fisherman Fizz28 votesExcept it was a noobtrap because it did magic damage and so because of how good MR and Armor were as stats back then it did basically no damage.
Keti3 votesold bloorazor also gave armor in addition to AD and attack speed. it gave so much random crap it wasn't efficient on anyone but warwick.
Goatfish11 votes[deleted]
HateDaddy22 votesjust had to get rid of that toxic sated
remember i had one game where we never saw
once. when we finally did it was like 16 minutes or some shit and he came out sated with more farm than both mid laners
.
To be fair, Yi is a power farming jungler and would likely do that regardless of which jungle item he builds.
RoodToob20 votesto be fair, if he had more farm than the mid laners, thats a lot of CS missed
Twitch Chat11 votesIt was a noob trap in the sense that people would build it on champs with no synergy with on hits with the idea that it would help them tankbust. The new enchantment is pretty straight forward.
I suppose it is still somewhat a trap on account of the smite kog theorycrafting but I haven't seen anyone do anything like that in an actual game. It's pretty obvious going lane smite for a mediocre onhit is pointless.
HateDaddy2 votesIt was a noob trap in the sense that people would build it on champs with no synergy with on hits with the idea that it would help them tankbust. The new enchantment is pretty straight forward.
I suppose it is still somewhat a trap on account of the smite kog theorycrafting but I haven't seen anyone do anything like that in an actual game. It's pretty obvious going lane smite for a mediocre onhit is pointless.
Jax is my goto jungler these days and I'm just going to be building Cinderhulk > Gunblade > TF then tank items. It sucks because it's an extremely expensive build path whereas sated + Rageblade was relatively cheap. It's just hard to get that kind of gold on a jungler. :/
Twitch Chat3 votesI wish I would have abused sated jax shenanigans a little more before it went away. More on topic I think they might want to consider just adding a small flat damage portion to the on hit in addition to the percent damage in order to make it more fitting as an item that is rushed out immediately.
Any buffs to bloodrazor or any similar jungle onhit item needs to be paired with kindred nerfs tho.
Sire Hippington1 votesthats more an issue of guinsoo's costing 800 more now though, cinderhulk is hardly more expensive than sated, and try to substitute trinity for Iceborn if your not fed, it's quite effective and cost way less.
Spaceman5pff1 votesThings many Triforce users want that Iceborn doesn't give them: HP Attack Speed Crit Chance Movespeed Attack Damage Phage Proc (yeah I get it iceborn is sticky too but phage gives you that nice burst when you kill a creep that lets you run at them and hold your gapcloser)
Iceborn is okay i guess on Irelia and Jax, and it is most certainly great on Nasus and Ezreal, but in the instance mentioned above (jungle jax with cinderhulk) at this point in the game, Jax is desperately in need of some attack speed, beyond the delayed amount he gets from his recently-delayed passive. I'm not saying Iceborn is a terrible item, the meta CLEARLY dictates otherwise, but I am saying that it is not simply interchangeable with Trinity Force, as they do two very different things.
Sire Hippington1 votesThe issue is that trinity is a to expensive item for jungle jax if he's not fed.
Also, trinity gives very poor as, 15% is not exactly much. Throw in a dagger if your desperate for it, it's only 30og, and you could get a wit's end, wich is a rather underated it on jax as he does enough magical damage to utilize the mr shred, and the rest it offers is quite usefull.
Try 
, it's a very costefficient built for jungle jax with a great midgame, and with either gunblade or rageblade on top, the lategame still is rather potent, though obviously not as strong as with a more expensive builtpath.
If you find your self falling a bit behind early on, it really helps staying relevant in the midgame.
Spaceman5pff2 votesI just don't play Jax in the jungle for the simple reason that he likes expensive items and it is hard to get them from there. Same reason Irelia works out better in the top lane, they both can jungle, but they can lane well and like expensive items.
Domaća Džukela2 votesI've seen Phylol trying out smite Vayne with Bloodrazor and Guinsoo however, that build is pure trash. You don't have any lane pressure that you can use, you're just farming it out to the mid game. Which definitely means that if Vayne can't make it successful, it's not a good early game combination and investment as you'll always rather have some power to fight people with rather then constantly avoiding fights and losing objectives until you buy these two items.
These two items seem to be fortifying your lead and enabling tank killing rather then giving you the raw power to win fights early. Which means that they are best suited for as a response to someone on the enemy team, and not a must buy in every game.
Wimbledofy1 votesI don't understand the purpose of this. Wouldn't bork + guinsoos do the exact same thing but better?
Domaća Džukela1 votesBork is % current HP and Bloodrazor is % max HP. Guinsoo is as expensive as IE now and it specifically serves as a tank killer, not an item that gives you a lot of power for the price, without it's stacks for the Phantom Hit passive to kick in. It is used as an additional item to complete a build against high HP targets and should not be a core item to make a build from. If you go for this with Vayne (and BorK has been nerfed because of her, quite some time ago), you're going to pay a lot of gold and you're still going to have to reach a late game for these items to shine, where Vayne also shines.
If you're a Vayne player, i suggest skipping BorK as a first purchase. Every ADC needs damage and crit, so the usual buys for them are a BF Sword (as a first buy) and then completing a Zeal item before the BF item (Shiv, RFC or PD). Why? Stat efficiency. Finishing a crit item first gives you the ability to crit off the damage from a BF anyway + an additional effect, whereas any BF item gives you 20% crit and you're paying a lot of gold to get it.
is much better with a Zeal item completed, because of more crit + AS.
Vayne doesn't need as she doesn't use a lot of mana but the Crit to CDR conversion is nice to have, if you need it.
gives a superior lifesteal than BorK and more damage + a shield.
you never this buy first as ADCs struggle to deal assassin levels of damage early. If you need this effect, it is best gotten as last 2 items, where ADCs can almost 2-3 shot you.Wimbledofy1 votesWhen i said that I meant why was he trying bloodrazor + guinsoos instead of bork + guinsoos.
Domaća Džukela1 votesBorK is a bad item to rush on Vayne, despite what you're seeing Vayne players do. If Gosu is still doing this, then he is wrong too.
Damage is easy to obtain from multiple sources and BorK starts scaling once Vayne hits mid-late game. Guinsoo follows the same principle. If you're going to rush BorK, Challenger's Smite + Bloodrazor is a better and a cheaper replacement. Don't rush Guinsoo's, it's an early trap purchase. You'll need too much time to get all the gold and if you're losing, you're never going to hit a point where you can kill people before they kill you.
If you're not rushing Guinsoo's, then Bloodrazor and a Smite is also a weak early game investment. And if you're not getting this, then opting for a more expensive alternative (BorK) is also a bad choice. So you're left with the traditional ADC items that scale really well with Vayne and make her a monster earlier into the game. Then you can choose BorK or Guinsoo as a response to enemy tanks, never decide on a preset build before a game starts. These items are only good if a champion is doing good.
WoonStruck9 votesBecause now its a jungle only noob trap! :D
But no, its because it doesn't cost 3800 gold now and deals physical damage. Yeah, you lose 25 armor and 40 AD, but you're spending way less for it, and get 10% bonus attack speed (after this next patch).
Attack speed junglers would make use of it, but at this point they might as well make it a mini-BotRK, like how we have mini-sunfire and mini-Luden's Echo. Mostly because I don't want to be disgusted when I see the damage Kindred pumps out with it and BotRK. I really hope they end up sharing passive names at some point.
Spaceman5pff4 votesWhy would BotRK and Bloodrazor share a passive name though???
BotRK is % CURRENT HP Bloodrazor is % MAX HP.
They actually do 2 different things...? The only time BotRK does % MAX is on the active
1374342 votesThey don't have to do the exact same thing to share a passive name. Steraks and Maw/Hexdrinker both now share the Lifeline passive even though the shields (and their triggers) are different.
Having a unique passive name is just a way to make it clear to player that passives from two different items don't stack. There is no rule that says the name passive has to be identical in all the items containing it.
Spaceman5pff2 votesTrue, I'll give you that. I just feel that this would only need to happen if the combination of these two items becomes an abuse issue, and given that both items involved seem rather underwhelming at the moment, I doubt this will become needed without some extreme overbuffing. If it is only Kindred doing it, I doubt it would be worth that level of change. As far as I remember, the last time an item was reworked / changed as a direct result of ONE SPECIFIC CHAMPION was 4.20 Warwick and red smite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1TAtiE9F3E
Sunfire / Iceborn see a wide variety of users, as did Rageblade before the recent changes put it back in the shitter. Steraks / Maw were abused by virtually anything that moved and could use AD. Cinderhulk was such an issue that even Cinderhulk Lee Sin top was a thing apparently which I still don't understand. QSS changes were for more than just Zed, even though he is equal to the fury of hell itself atm.
One can argue for the free swap between ravenous and titanic being abused by only fiora, but i think that was just a silly mechanic and would have gone away regardless.
CowboyNinja1 votesYeah it's good on Shyvana! and Yi! and....and..... literally no one else. Everyone else can make use of flat AD far more than AS.
Partholonian3 votes
all have on-hit or every X hit abilities that they can use in the jungle (aside from the ones built into 
and 
themselves). Some have better options, but they CAN use AS effectively, and many have few or no AD ratios outside of their autoattacks (where AS can be just as good or better, depending on how much of it you are getting).
Not everyone is Lee Sin.
CowboyNinja1 votesLmao, look at all these champs that can use it. I mean yeah they have better options, but they can use it!
You literally said exactly what I said. The only ones who scale hard enough with AS to actually want to take the new BR over some other item are Shyvana and Yi and Yi is debatable.
Jakojo8 votesHere to upvote my daddy.
tXQbsPrjN58 votesComing full circle is Riot's thing. "We don't like invisible power"
2 seasons later
ModIts Yuu and Mi6 votesWit's End won't work just because it does stuff vs AP but AD less so, so it raises the question of why make an AS item for Junglers that then gets even more niche.
That being said, +1 specifically because I don't see it ever being good without being broken.
Blackstone016 votesI thought bloodrazor was removed cause it gave AD AS champs a %max on hit magic damage, making it hard to build against.
HateDaddy5 votesI thought bloodrazor was removed cause it gave AD AS champs a %max on hit magic damage, making it hard to build against.
No, it's because it did magic damage on-hit (yes it was max% hp) but it was used by AD champions, who wouldn't itemize magic pen. So in short, one MR item basically negated it. It was removed in preseason 3 and essentially replaced by BoTRK.
PeponiPoro3 votesEither way, it now deals Attack Damage. I fail to see the problem. If it is that it feels to weak right now, I agree, but they have substantial buffs on PBE.
MunchCrunchLunch4 votesits not weak. its fucking garbage
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesBecause there is no way for this item to feel strong without being completely overbearing. One of the only champions building this item is Kindred since almost every other "user" switched jungle items or said fuck it and just rushes BoRK, Titanic, or Trinity. The item is awful as a first buy since it scales with your opponent's HP (which is why it honestly needs WW Q or Mundo Q wording to pick a flat or %value and choose the highest) and doing 3% (soon to be 4) of someone at level 7 or something means you were probably better off with a Cutlass or any AD item since raw AD helps your abilities more.
PeponiPoro1 votesOkay, this helps me understand the negatives. Thanks!
Jabberwöcky3 votesSo building with
Is that bad?
Steven Mcburn3 votesYou're forgetting the most important part here, it was a noob trap and it had better stats.
3% max hp as PHYS dmg vs 4% max hp as MAGIC dmg.
I'd rather have magic dmg if I'm going to be forced into an onhit item. It's only useful against tanks, who probably are running over 200 armor and 3kish hp so you're doing 90ish damage before it gets mitigated, like 30ish after.
So great. Such good. Must rush.
I haven't played jungle or looked at the item since it was released because this season has been a garbage can, but I'm guessing you're paying something like 2.5kish for an item that's passive is completely worthless to every jungle.
Spaceman5pff1 votesThe reason it was bad back when it was a non-smite item that did magic % was that it was build largely on AD champions, they didnt get magic pen, so it was ruined by one mr item.
As physical damage, Shred from cleaver or pen from last whisper or arpen from many other sources will help amp the damage through armor.
MealReadytoEat3 votesThis was way back when champions tended to get roughly equal MR to AR, as Force of nature was too good to pass up on 3/5 of the champion pool, and lastwhisper was a core item.
Right now, Magic damage is ALMOST always better than physical damage.
KyroRayne3 votesIt was a noob trap because On Hit back in S2 was crap. ADCs wanted AD and Crit with AS. The item had low AD (40), low AR (25), average AS (40%), low Max HP% damage (4%), and cost 3800... So yeah... it was a complete trap back then.
Now you have BotRK that has 40% AS, 25 AD, 6% Current HP on hit, 10% lifesteal, and an active that steals 10% max HP AND 25% MS from target for 3400.
The new Bloodrazor enchantment gives 40% AS and 3% Max HP Physical damage On Hit for 1625 (+1000 for base item). So this isn't a noob trap. It's for AS junglers like Yi, WW, Kindred, etc.
Rinky Dinky3 votesOld bloodzrazor was a completely different item in a completely different game at this point.
Tobias Brackner2 votesWits End is awesome.
I build it on Bruisers who want AS (and some supp) since it gives dmg, resistance, and helps ally AP too.
It's HILARIOUS on Trundle.
DemainaNyx2 votesHad a teammate flame me on ARAM for building it on Teemo. Yeah, our 4 AP team comp really isn't going to benefit from me stealing some MR from the enemy, especially combined with my hurricane so I can steal from multiple people at once. They already bought a sweeper, how else am I supposed to help the team?
Shadow Hazard2 votesYou realize sated was a wits end on steroids without the MR.
HateDaddy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFVAteHv,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-05-12T06:03:38.303+0000)
You realize sated was a wits end on steroids without the MR.
wits end doesn't give you phantom on hit
That's honestly what broke the item more than anything
Teridax682 votesMadred's Bloodrazor was removed because at the time it was expected to be replaced by Blade of the Ruined King, and its awkward combination of stats (armor + AD + attack speed) and on-hit magic damage made it work on too few champions, who became too dependent on it (Warwick was the biggest abuse case).
I don't think Wit's End makes the most sense as a jungle item, mainly because the defenses it offers (MR) have no use in the jungle, and not all that much use even when ganking AP lanes, while the MR shred component of its resistance-stealing passive doesn't really cater well to physical damage attack speed junglers like Yi or Xin Zhao. Bloodrazor may not be a good enchantment at the moment, but at least its stats and effects have direct synergy with most on-hit champions and jungle clearing.
Cenobite Azaziel2 votesMadred's Bloodrazor was removed because at the time it was expected to be replaced by Blade of the Ruined King, and its awkward combination of stats (armor + AD + attack speed) and on-hit magic damage made it work on too few champions, who became too dependent on it (Warwick was the biggest abuse case).
I don't think Wit's End makes the most sense as a jungle item, mainly because the defenses it offers (MR) have no use in the jungle, and not all that much use even when ganking AP lanes, while the MR shred component of its resistance-stealing passive doesn't really cater well to physical damage attack speed junglers like Yi or Xin Zhao. Bloodrazor may not be a good enchantment at the moment, but at least its stats and effects have direct synergy with most on-hit champions and jungle clearing.
are skipping jungle items, machete and rush botrk. "It isn't a good" is an euphemism. It is what madred was. A noob trap.
When no one is building the item that was meant to be good on AA, you know you f*** it up really bad.
Teridax684 votesWhat you're pointing out is a balance problem, not a design problem. With bigger numbers, the current Bloodrazor can be a viable and healthy item on on-hit junglers, whereas the old Madred's couldn't be made good on all on-hit junglers without making them unhealthy (tanks had a hard time counterbuilding due to the max health magic damage on physical damage champions), and some of them significantly OP. I'd wait a few weeks to see how the buffed version turns out before declaring the whole thing fundamentally broken, particularly since it only came out last patch among many other changes, several of which made other champions far too weak.
Spaceman5pff3 votesWarwick, Shyvana, and (currently) Udyr all deal largely (dare i say MOSTLY) magic damage.
Back in seasons of olde when dorans blade start tiger max udyr jungle was in favor, he did more physical, but now with phoenix max he does primarily magical.
Your argument indeed stands for yi though.
Xin I can't speak for, as his ideal build is forever changing (sometimes he is warrior + triforce, untill recently he was Sated + rageblade + nashor) and as such is primary damage type is inconsistent.
Hell, I've even seen Xin go 
and let me tell you it was a nightmare.
Went back and looked up the game, it was
Keystone: Strength of Ages
Surfer Ashe1 votesBloodrazor was just given back to have an option since Sated was going to be removed regardless.
A placeholder, if you will.
Sated wasn't even THAT bad tbh. Gimmicky. Like, Yi's problem with it was the fact tank items were good too. Seriously, the patch before sated was removed, Yi's playrate was low.
HateDaddy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Surfer Ashe,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFVAteHv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-12T03:19:00.724+0000)
Bloodrazor was just given back to have an option since Sated was going to be removed regardless.
A placeholder, if you will.
Sated wasn't even THAT bad tbh. Gimmicky. Like, Yi's problem with it was the fact tank items were good too. Seriously, the patch before sated was removed, Yi's playrate was low.
It was low but bruiser yi was always a thing even before sated, it just wasn't well known. It still works and warrior still gives him good damage. But it's just typically done by actual Yi players who understand its powerspikes and build paths, not fotm spammers
I understand it's a placeholder but i am also coming up with a suggestion to take its place, silly :D