"We’re also looking for other small improvements we can make across the item system"

Blue Shift··12 votes·1,911 views

Ability power:

Remove the passive, haste from the game. (Grants 10% cooldown reduction on Ludens, Hextech GLP, Lost Chapter, and Seraphs. Changes below to these items are not including haste) item 3285 - Remove the 10% cdr and 200 mana item 3146 - Remove the 2 second 40% slow item 3115 - Remove the 20% cdr, attacks now deal 15 + (20% of ability power) (currently 15 + (15%)) item 3040 - Remove the 10% cdr, shield now only uses 10% mana (currently 15%), Ability power down to 35 (current 50) item 3135 - Magic penetration down to 30% (currently 40%) item 3157 - Remove the 10% cdr, remove 5 armor (current 45) item 3089 - Needs a better build path to make it more accessible item 3907 - Needs it's stacking changed so you can reliably stack is easier and alone item 2065 + item 3174 - Higher cost, but a bit of compensation to stats item 3152 - Item is now melee only

Mage items that are ranged/melee only to help balance mage items. Mage items need a lethality type stat. Spell vamp needs to return as a named stat on mage items and not just gunblade, ravenous hunter, maw, and death's dance.

Attack damage:

item 3147 - Remove nightstalker passive (bonus burst from stealth), compensate with movement speed or 15 ad item 3508 - Remove 10% cdr (currently has 20%), cost down to 3000 (current 3300) item 3004 + item 3042- Do not grant awe until fully stacked, remove "refund 15% of mana spent" on awe (awe = grants bonus AD equal to 2% of max mana) item 3044 - Kills no longer grant 60 movement speed, 250 health + 25 damage (current 200 + 15) item 3133 - Attack damage down to 20 (current 25), should not be stronger than serrated dirk and should be situational item 3033 + item 3036 - Cost reductions item 3071 - 350 health + 40 AD + 10% cdr (current 400 health, 40 AD, 20%) item 3071 - Passive = dealing physical damage reduces armor by 5% for 4 seconds, stacks up 6 times (max 30%) (current = 4% for 6 seconds, stacks up 6 times (max 24%))

Other:

We need more diversity in how we can play the game, and the excuse of not many people building certain items wasn't a valid excuse to remove them.

item 3172 - The reason for removing it was that nobody built it and it was just a substitute to boots later on. This isn't a problem because the games almost never last more than full build, let alone letting you to gain enough gold for another complete item. Most people just sell boots anyways if they have enough. Banner of Command - Revert item back to it's original passive before they broke it and instead of fixing, just deleted it. Excuse was it was not being used enough. item 3056 - Make the active last 5 seconds instead of 3, or a simple stat buff item 3053 - The text. "Grow in size and strength", but doesn't grant any damage (strength), just size item 3512 - Add 125% base mana regeneration because most split pushing champions need abilities to push waves item 3009 - 70 movement speed (current 55), slow resist to 30 (current 25) If not this, make all boots do +30 movement speed instead of 45

Another quality of life change is making certain items like sunfire cape, liandrys, etc... not tick per second, but every half second for more precise damage (numbers adjusted for this). Same applies to things like Malzahar E, Fizz W, etc...

Also we really need more items in the game to promote creativity and diversity in how you can play, because right now there is not a lot of either. It doesn't need to be revolutionary and one of a kind either, just a simple item like stormrazer is enough to promote creativity and diversity.

Edit: You guys seem to think extremely one dimensionally so I will make it some things more clear for you. These are not exact things that have to be added into the game exactly as I said. They are recommendations and not all of them are supposed to be added. Obviously they aren't going to change every item in the game, and changing items will change the game a lot, and shouldn't be done on a whim. You guys seem to latch onto one of the smallest thing in an entire paragraph post, and try to throw a tantrum immediately without any discussion at all about what could be better instead or what consequences they may have.

CDR is a problem, but it could also be tied to how riot didn't actually balance things properly, and just threw the equivalent to duck tape on everything, and now we are paying the price. CDR is a problem because of how much cc was thrown into the game to counteract assassins being strong, mage items were the victim of power creep and have been some of the most broken characters in the entire game for a long while now. There is a reason mages are/were some of the strongest in each role. Kennen top, Malz mid, Karthus jungle, Syndra adc, Lux support.

38 Comments

lolipopevelynn10 votes

OP you do realize you are simply making all the items giant stat bats right? very dull and boring and WILL make the game worse in the long run.

Blue Shift5 votes

That is exactly what items are, an extension of a champion's kit that you can use to do cool things with. Champion's shouldn't be balanced around whether or not they can take aftershock and protobelt like lissandra, or whether or not they can abuse spell vamp like vladimir.

Blue Shift6 votes

This has been nothing new for a long time, and I am genuinely impressed how many people seem to have a hivemind mentality without ever giving a reason

bald man bad7 votes

How about we fix the awful AP bruiser itemization as well? Make melee-only AP bruiser items that can be used by Rumble, Singed, Mordekaiser, Sylas, etc. but won't be endlessly abused by Brand and Cassiopeia as well. DoT champs particularly like Singed and Rumble suffer from having really inflexible itemization for damage stats.

Singed can't even build magic penetration normally, ffs. And tell me what other combo needs two items to get its full value other than item 3116 and item 3151 ?? You don't get the full Torment passive on your DoT unless you buy a Rylais as well, it's ridiculous. Give us more AP Bruiser/DoT items, please.

Blue Shift6 votes

Amazing recommendation to be honest, I never even thought of this being a problem because I don't play these champions much.

Eedat1 votes

You don't need those two to get full value. You just need a slow or CC lol

bald man bad1 votes

Yes, but in terms of actual sticking power, particularly on Singed and Rumble, it's important to buy the Rylais to keep Torment at maximum potential. Singed W is a reasonably high mana cost and cooldown to be used just to proc Torment burn, especially when the grounded debuff is a much more important use case than the slow. In Rumble's case, his E can be difficult to hit on mobile champions, if there are minions around, etc. It's more an issue of reliability than ability, and you can't have your full damage potential reliably as a DoT bruiser without both items.

Malix Farwin6 votes

I feel like the OP watches too much Hashinshin.

Blue Shift5 votes

No, I just understand how the game works and have no biased opinions because I don't main one specific role, I play everything. Mages are too strong right now and it's a combination of multiple things, items being one of them.

Zero Shingetsu6 votes

To be honest, they could stand to trim cooldown reduction off a lot of items. It feels like it's something that should be deliberately built towards, yet it's on more than half the most useful items in the game. You can easily get to 40% just in the course of building stats without even meaning to.

ZephyrDrake5 votes

so have mages lose all CDR? since you said that those changes do not include the removal of haste.. "small improvements" ok.. what are you going to give to all these items that you are essentially removing from the game? what are you going to give mages that you are literally getting rid of a stat that they need?

Ragnaveil1 votes

The removal makes it a buff. Some people would probably like having Ludens with their Glacial....

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

The removal makes it a buff. Some people would probably like having Ludens with their Glacial....

no it doesn't. Getting rid of the mana entirely would be more of a buff since now manaless mages could use it. Removing the CDR is never going to be a buff in any capacity also glacial? what?

RyzeRework4 votes

i love how 90 percent of people buy ghostblade over duskblade because the little bit of damage isnt enough compared to the movement speed and attack speed of ghostblade. so by reducing the passive of duskblade it would be a 3.3k item with 55 ad and 18 lethality. compared to hourglass which is 400 less gold 75 ap 45 armor and text basically reads do no damage to me and go fuck yourself. and nerfing 5 armor and 10 cdr isnt going make it weak. imagine paying 3.3k gold for 55 ad and 15 armor pen that scales to 22. 3.3k - 2.9k 22 armor pen- 40 armor 55ad-75ap these items arent even comparable

Eedat2 votes

I thought people were over duskblade by now. It's like half an auto attack at this point

Eedat4 votes

sooooo....... nerf everything but ADC, support, and tank itemization. I see what you're doing here

Blue Shift4 votes

I don't play ADC, support, or even tanks all that much to warrant my opinion on them.

Profirix3 votes

Your changes seem a bit heavy-handed to mages. I get that damage is too high right now but that is a per-champion issue and less of an item issue. Removing all that CDR from mage items makes it so mages scale far worse and can counter resist-stacking a lot worse.

The solution is to give mage items more diversity and perhaps unique effects that aren't just "here's more damage".

Ragnaveil1 votes

Wait. More diversity? I exactly recall mages bitching that there was too much, and they wanted their buildpaths to mirror assassins (aka streamlined), hence why the items got reworked.

Profirix1 votes

The issue was around abuses with certain effects. There is a reason people coined the term "League of Stopwatch." Or why support items were nerfed following their use by mid lane mages.

Pika Fox3 votes

Why? Literally all of these are terrible changes.

Zero Shingetsu3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-17T03:22:30.972+0000)

Why? Literally all of these are terrible changes.

You'll forgive me if I had a hard time believing you read and calculated every single one. Don't use the word "literally" for emphasis, use it when something is literal.

Pika Fox3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-10-17T03:40:15.926+0000)

You'll forgive me if I had a hard time believing you read and calculated every single one. Don't use the word "literally" for emphasis, use it when something is literal.

Alright, let me fix that to your standards;

Literally all of these are bad.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-10-17T03:53:42.168+0000)

Alright, let me fix that to your standards;

Literally all of these are bad.

Well aren't we cheeky. If you're going to be sarcastic about it, I'll riposte once more: Something cannot be "literally" bad. "Bad" is relative.

It can be "literally 100 degrees" Fahrenheit outside. It cannot be "literally way too hot", because what you believe is "too hot" another may be relatively comfortable with.

A test result can be "literally perfect". If no questions were answered incorrectly, it cannot get any better. A performance cannot be "literally perfect", because everyone has different standards for perfection. One viewer may think it perfect, while another spots two elements that could use improvement.

The word "literal" in reference to speech defines as follows:

in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical.

Thus, something can only be "literally" anything if there is, in fact, a strict, non-figurative definition of a given word. By all means, though, feel free to retort by calling me "literally" some insult or another. We both know it's coming.

Pika Fox1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-17T04:11:27.731+0000)

Well aren't we cheeky. If you're going to be sarcastic about it, I'll riposte once more: Something cannot be "literally" bad. "Bad" is relative.

It can be "literally 100 degrees" Fahrenheit outside. It cannot be "literally way too hot", because what you believe is "too hot" another may be relatively comfortable with.

A test result can be "literally perfect". If no questions were answered incorrectly, it cannot get any better. A performance cannot be "literally perfect", because everyone has different standards for perfection. One viewer may think it perfect, while another spots two elements that could use improvement.

The word "literal" in reference to speech defines as follows:

Thus, something can only be "literally" anything if there is, in fact, a strict, non-figurative definition of a given word. By all means, though, feel free to retort by calling me "literally" some insult or another. We both know it's coming.

This is not subjective, these changes are objectively bad, and remove defined, intentional powerspikes for literally no reason. Hell, making protobelt melee only? How many mages are melee? Shaco and sylas? This is the most obvious one, but the rest arent exactly any better. Removing haste for no reason, meaning mages wont even hit 40% CDR, and mages need the early spike as they fall off later. Nerfing the completed items from haste.... Which are designed to be the first buy items for a reason, making them never buys.

Blue Shift7 votes

The problem is, people like this are allowed to have a say in these types of things in the form of upvotes and downvotes. This person has played nothing but bots and aram for the past month, but they have the ability to "contribute" to a post they know little to nothing about. And even if they are proven wrong or are called out, the downvotes don't go away and they would rather go down trying to take you down.

LightswornLance2 votes

Wait so 40% cdr should be unachievable? Mages are a bit powerful right now but just lowering the 20% cdr items to 10% should do enough. Also all removing the cdr from those items does it make cdr runes mandatory.

Pendergast8912 votes

{quoted}

Wait so 40% cdr should be unachievable? Mages are a bit powerful right now but just lowering the 20% cdr items to 10% should do enough. Also all removing the cdr from those items does it make cdr runes mandatory.

no, hes saying remove the passive haste from those items AND remove their 10% cdr. they don't want ANY cdr on mage items

Edit: oops my bad. Reading comprehension is hard sometimes. Ignore this comment.

LightswornLance5 votes

I know and that makes 40% cdr unachievable. IMO 40% cdr should be a lategame 6 item thing.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Regardless of it being a mage or not.

5050BS1 votes

And AD champs should have to give up damage to get 40% CDR

LanceTheMighty1 votes

Well they kinda do, Triforce only has 25 AD and Black Cleaver only has 40. Spear of shojin is being removed and theres only 10% cdr on all the other items.

Blue Shift5 votes

If they nerf the runes so you aren't gaining 20% from runes alone, then they can re-balance the items. As it is right now, cdr is far too prevalent in the game and these items that were mentioned are some of the most broken in the game right now.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-10-17T03:00:16.468+0000)

If they nerf the runes so you aren't gaining 20% from runes alone, then they can re-balance the items. As it is right now, cdr is far too prevalent in the game and these items that were mentioned are some of the most broken in the game right now.

40% CDR is a late game fantasy for mages. You literally are removing those items from existence all because of your useless bias. What are you going to give those items back? and don't tell me "they'll figure it out" or "nothing" because that will IMMEDIATELY make everything you just said be INVALID

Blue Shift4 votes

I am pointing out the fact that right now there is so much cdr in the game, that having 40% is extremely common, making mages some of the strongest classes in the game, and making cc and important abilities like an orianna ult, too forgiving and easy to use. This is part of the reason the damage meta became a thing, because assassins were forced to have more and more damage and strong kits to compensate for how much cc was put into the game. Power creep has put the game into an unfortunate position and a good start is removing a lot of the cc from these core items, that even without cdr, would still be strong. New items need to be added, like I said, to balance things out, and maybe Ludens losing it's 10% cdr means mages never have above 20%, then you can give it back and just nerf it's damage a little. It doesn't matter how it is done, and I am not 100% correct in everything.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vFLKrAqK,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-17T03:58:20.561+0000)

I am pointing out the fact that right now there is so much cdr in the game, that having 40% is extremely common, making mages some of the strongest classes in the game, and making cc and important abilities like an orianna ult, too forgiving and easy to use. This is part of the reason the damage meta became a thing, because assassins were forced to have more and more damage and strong kits to compensate for how much cc was put into the game. Power creep has put the game into an unfortunate position and a good start is removing a lot of the cc from these core items, that even without cdr, would still be strong. New items need to be added, like I said, to balance things out, and maybe Ludens losing it's 10% cdr means mages never have above 20%, then you can give it back and just nerf it's damage a little. It doesn't matter how it is done, and I am not 100% correct in everything.

I don't give a damn about "there is too much CDR in the game" mages have always been able to reach 40% CDR. This is not something new, this is something they have always done. So no, this is not the reason for the "damage meta". 40% CDR is a late game fantasy for mages and supports. You literally are making half of these items be completely useless due to your little anti CDR nonsense. You want to know what will happen to these items if they lose CDR? they'll just gain more AP and they'll burst you down quicker and faster. Mages have lost AP throughout the years to gain CDR on more than a few items so they don't have to be pigeonhole into a couple of items if they wanted to reach 40% CDR and now you are saying "give them more AP instead of CDR" which will just lead to higher amounts of burst in the game so congratulations you just helped the damage meta you so much hate.

Blue Shift1 votes

mages have always been able to reach 40% CDR. This is not something new, this is something they have always done.

CDR was never this adundant where every person in the game would have 40%. Having 40% cdr at two items into the game is extremely common now, and it is a product of building normally, not a product of building cdr based items.

mages have always been able to reach 40% CDR. This is not something new, this is something they have always done.

You just not very good at reading huh, please go read the post and my comment again, and maybe look some words up if you don't understand.

You want to know what will happen to these items if they lose CDR? they'll just gain more AP and they'll burst you down quicker and faster.

According to who? Many of these items are incredibly strong and losing 10% or even 20% cdr wouldn't make these items irrelevant, but instead open up more possibilities to actually balance champions instead of having the items balance them.

Mages have lost AP throughout the years to gain CDR on more than a few items so they don't have to be pigeonhole into a couple of items if they wanted to reach 40% CDR and now you are saying "give them more AP instead of CDR" which will just lead to higher amounts of burst in the game so congratulations you just helped the damage meta you so much hate.

CDR items should be a choice, not a byproduct of building items as a mage. Right now, as someone like Lux, you build the strongest items in the game, being Ludens and Zhonyas, and now at 2 items, you have 30% cdr, by FAR the best active in the entire game, more damage than almost everyone else in the game, and a massive mana pool to be able to abuse the 30% cdr. Not even mentioning that these 2 items have some of the best build paths in the entire game, giving you extreme lane dominance.

CDR should be put on the items that you get as your 4th, 5th, and/or 6th items, and not on the core items, like the items mages are abusing right now.

Inkling Commando1 votes

why not shorten your post by saying: "remove these items from the game..."

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