Why Runes Reforged should be reverted to the Season 1-4 Runes+Masteries system

Blue Shift·11/26/2019, 8:03:34 PM·81 votes·15,390 views

I will change it so the edit is at the top because people still somehow miss it: I am talking about the runes and masteries system itself, not including the fact they used to cost Blue essence to purchase as all that did was give an advantage to the old players of League and restrict the new players.

Link to the next few quotes.

"Runes and Masteries have problems. These systems are complicated, hard to balance, and don't give you enough room to customize your playstyle or adapt to the situation in champ select." (1)

I don't want to make this post a 20 minute read, so I'll just say that they were not complicated, gave you room to customize your playstyle, and let you adapt to the situation in champ select. Maybe they are referring to how you couldn't edit your runes directly, but I don't see why they couldn't have just added this in, as the runes are not very complicated.

I can see how balancing the runes might have been tricky, because of how hard it would have been to tell if they were too strong or not, but this was 6 years ago and today they have ways to tell. Now you can see everything in the post-game, from how much your demolish did to how much healing you gained from taste of blood.

"Forging a better Runes system first means concentrating the system's power into fewer choices so that each selection matters more." (5)

They put this in the dev blog that presumably hundreds of thousands of people read and thought nothing of it. Removing player diversity and creativity was one of their major intents, directly contradicting their statement above about the old system not giving enough room to customize your playstyle. I don't understand why champions like Fiddlesticks and Ryze should be weaker just because they don't have a specific keystone that fits their kit. The Runes and Masteries were made to have little impact on the game, to only support your playstyle and not to define it. If you weren't playing at the time, click below and it will take you to the wiki where you can see all the old runes and masteries and what they did. Runes Masteries)

"With this in mind we're moving those “required” stats into the background so you can focus on the parts that matter." (12)

They moved all of the stats from runes they thought were "required" and put it directly into the champions base stats. Patch 7.22 link directly to where you can click every champion in the game and see exactly how much they added directly into their base stats.

12 of the 16 keystones in the game are literally just more damage: Attack 3 times and deal more damage, when you hit an enemy deal more damage, you get the point. (I know there are 17, but I am not counting Omnistone)

The 4 non damage keystones are Glacial, Guardian, Phase Rush, and Fleet footwork.

I don't believe the Runes and Masteries were perfect and could probably use some small updates and balancing, but I believe it was a much better system than what we have now.

TL;DR: Runes Reforged was added to remove options that let you customize and play how you wanted, while at the same time making those fewer options much stronger. The old Runes+Masteries system had a much smaller impact and were just small stats and bonuses that you could use to create cool and interesting ways to play, either making cool new strats or simply just giving you a sandbox to play and have fun in.

71 Comments

Percentages11/26/2019, 8:30:13 PM32 votes

IMO the old runes were more fair because they didn't have asinine abilities that become problematic and have to be nerfed, and then buffed, and then nerfed again and then changed and replaced with a new one. Go to old rune system, remove masteries, boom!

Ragnaveil11/26/2019, 8:26:59 PM28 votes

Honestly, if they reverted back to those season runes, didnt price them (remove the gold and exp and other niche runes), have them all available off the bat, and had premade pages of those, then it would work. Adaptive was made to make up for the lack of "ap" that got removed from Mage pages (hint: Mages and AP are disgusting right now despite losing those runes).

Stuff should just be more simpler, we dont need Transcendence to give Mages 40 AP just cuz they overcapped, just let it convert the excess CDR into Mana (or Health for the non-mana users). So many of the secondary based runes have some type of aggressive adaptive playstyle involved its no wonder why it feels like theres a fuckload of damage in the game.

They should also stop being complacent and do item reworks (AP,Tank mainly).

World peace plz11/26/2019, 8:56:04 PM19 votes

Only positif about the new rune system is that you dont have to pay for your runes thats honestly even the only nice thing i can say about it. I miss the old system*[sg-janna]*

Crashyy11/26/2019, 8:49:11 PM18 votes

I'm praying for this to come back.

T2K Baka11/26/2019, 10:24:39 PM17 votes

I've been saying this for the longest time, but I got downvoted to oblivion. Guess it takes a season or 2 to notice something is wrong. These runes have too much impact, the older masteries were minimal except for the last keystone.

ihateyouallmuted11/26/2019, 10:53:57 PM16 votes

it's not "pick your champion, then choose your whacky keystone"

it's "whoever abuse these most is best champion"

it's fraudulent as hell, the whole of runes reforged is a mistake, and always will be

øHaruø11/26/2019, 10:13:42 PM15 votes

I remembered going full Attack Speed Yi runes and Loved it.

Now? If I don't take X mastery on X champ, I'm useless entire game. The sub runes don't even make the difference

Semaj3xt4h11/26/2019, 11:11:38 PM13 votes

Agreed 100%, I've said it a ton of times but yeah there were soo many options to choose from in aram, health regen, crit runes, armor pen, scaling health, gold per ten... etc etc, Yeah I miss diversity and I had atleast 3 different pages i'd pick from when playing fiddle... literally, my win rate in aram was like 60-65% before runes reforged hit.

CØulrophobia11/27/2019, 12:06:29 AM10 votes

Main problems with Runes Reforged:

Users and abusers: Aftershock is the best example of this. People abused it on unortodox champions it was not made for to reduce the weakness of said champions. (Liss, Pyke). After nerfs the rune was left in a state where intended users were simply not able to use it without handicapping themselves.

Min-max options: Quite similar to the previous problem. If we have 3 runes that give X,Y or Z damage, people will always go for the biggest stat stick without thinking of their matchup/combo/synergy. If they know their comet will do 3000 damage, why pick Aery that will do a lot of shielding for allied team? Meanwhile enemy team is hyper mobile and dodges half the comets.

Lack of choices: A problem I still see these days. And that is that we are missing quite a few choices for niche champions/matchups. Deathfire grasp used to be a really good mastery for Dot-mages, and it was never broken. Its removal was unwarranted and created problems further down the line.

Rαy11/26/2019, 11:49:32 PM9 votes

I absolutely agree. Runes Reforged created this dumbed down damage fiesta of a game.

datfatguy11/26/2019, 11:44:14 PM8 votes

Runes reforged sliced the skill floor of all champions by at least half. Fight me.

016 Hiro11/26/2019, 9:09:59 PM7 votes

The biggest problem with runes reforged is lack of defensive keystones. Resolve, which should be "crowd control and survivability" containst only ONE true defense keystone. O N E

Also there are too many runes that are totally useless or can be used only on few champions (like Nimbus Cloak, Shield Bash, Overheal, Revitalize, Unflinching, Last Stand, Cut Down is completely absolutely worthless to take on any champion now)

We have like 12 offensive keystones, 4(5 if we count aery) utility and ONE defensive.

Also why keystones are SO powerful? Why cant Rito just cut down power of all runes by 50%?

XJ9999999999999911/27/2019, 12:43:38 AM6 votes

i miss taking scaling attack damage reds + quints. instead, riot gave runes equal to or a bit less of just standard AD reds and quints.

I miss taking movement speed quints.

I miss taking scaling CDr blues.

I miss taking scaling armor yellows, making me tanky and not bursted to assassins and in fights.

all rune reforged did was give everyone less defensives and more damage. ty

Pika Fox11/26/2019, 8:44:48 PM5 votes

Old runes had 0 customization, and restricted players from being able to play without buying them. Ontop of that, there was literally only one correct choice. Wanna play crit gp? Youre wrong. Wanna play crit damage trynd or shaco? Wrong. Wasted IP. Energy runes? Youre literally trolling.

Old runes were garbage and have no place in LoL.

Ormylar11/27/2019, 5:25:33 AM4 votes

I miss the old mastery system.

Emperør Rhaast11/27/2019, 8:50:13 PM4 votes

Aside from the price lock behind old runes, I much prefer old runes and masteries over the runes we have now. The current runes just make damage creep worst, and some are incredibly hard to balance (conquerer, aftershcok, kleptomancy)

Pika31011/27/2019, 1:04:41 AM3 votes

I would like to note that "Runes Reforged" was designed by Fearless. I believe he also designed the original Keystones as well. It's only fair to give credit where credit is due, he did design them after all.


All due credit aside; as somebody who played the original Runes & Masteries system, I agree that we should revert back to it. Keystones were added because "Masteries offered too few diversity options," which resulted in League of Thunderlord's, where there were 8 to 10 Thunderlord's Decrees in every game; Keystones failed in their intended goal and made Masteries more homogeneous than the original system by always having a "best-of" Keystone that was always picked over the rest.

Moving on to "Masteries Runes Reforged," Rito saw that "Masteries with Keystones offered too few diversity options," (I feel like I've heard that statement before) and decided to delete both Runes as well as Masteries and in response to the playerbases' verbal disdain towards Keystones decided to create our current system of ONLY KEYSTONES. (Wait, isn't that the opposite of what players wanted?) Now here we are today, with a system more homogeneous than the homogeneous system it replaced, which was intended to create diversity. Not only is there a "best-of" main Keystone, but there is also a "best-of" Keystone on every minor branch as well. We are in the least-diverse Mastery system this game has ever seen.

meowwow711/27/2019, 6:33:37 AM3 votes

tbh my main complaint about the newer runes is how many freaking dmg procs can go off with a single skill. it's like oh hey lux landed a snare on me for 60 dmg, but then i take another 30-70 dmg from like 3 runes procs

Beacon Academy11/27/2019, 8:04:06 AM3 votes

Old Runes & Masteries = Champion based game with bonus stats -> Skill Inclined Current Runes = Damage based game with mandatory damage effects -> Mechanics Inclined

Lovelle11/29/2019, 4:52:18 PM2 votes

As a Trundle player, I definitely feel like the older system had much better defensive options/scaling, compared to RR which basically has little to none. I find it very difficult to stay alive with a tank build compared to the pre keystone eras. Stacking damage seems to be the best option for literally every champion, regardless of their actual scalings.

BlackXIV11/27/2019, 9:08:44 PM2 votes

Well, if you look at what Riot said of course you're going to find inconsistencies, they constantly lie. The truth is that they were aiming at dumbing down the runes+masteries systems (also to get rid of the redundancy of having masteries and champion mastery) so they condensed them into one that is more impactful. They could have reworked masteries into what we have today (like they often did in the past) while leaving the old runes at the same time (which is what I would have liked) but that would have been too complicated for the average player who, let's face it, isn't very bright.

RavenMagus11/28/2019, 7:46:50 AM1 votes

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

Old rune system was incredibly boring. "Runes to play how you want?" But it was entirely boring passive stats. Sure they could edge you towards one playstyle or another - mainly in AP vs AD or scaling vs early game, and that was about it. And to get them you had to spend a whole ton of IP on rune pages and the runes themselves, and it was incredibly inflexible if you didn't have many rune pages already set up before you got into a game since you couldn't change anything in lobby.

New runes are bold and exciting. I can look at different options and feel excited about my choices in ways that a passive +stats simply didn't do.

Now, I agree that the new runes added WAY too much damage to the game, but I don't think that's an inherent problem with the new rune system. It's simply how Riot wants the game to be now; you can see this as most of the balance changes for 'weaker' champs end up being damage buffs.

Boosted JG 4Head11/28/2019, 9:24:54 PM1 votes

I do not agree. I do not see how you can say that you could customize the old rune system. I mean, sure, the possibilities were indeed much much more, but in all honesty, most people had 5-6 runes pages that they used for ad or ap champions and vs ad or ap champions.

Most AD pages were ad reds, as quints, armour yellows and MR blues. Most AP pages were AP reds/ quints and armor/HP vs ad/ap and MR-CDR-AP blues depending on ad/ap enemy.

Sure, you had niche things like 1 crit rune, or 4 ad-5hp yellows, but that's not much "variance". For one, you needed a lot of pages to be in a position to customize in every single way you wanted. You can make the argument to change the pages during champ select for this, but you still do not get much agency other than "I want more AD instead of AS, or I need some early MR instead of scaling".

Most of the old options are the same as now. You can choose between adaptive force, attack speed or scaling CDR (which basically works almost the same as the old blues). Then, to stop abuse cases, you can get free 10% CDR at level 10 now, which was something that was abusable back then by champions like Riven.

You get access to increasing your CDR cap etc. The thing is that they changed the way you got damage back then to other, more engaging ways. Instead of getting "+8.1 AD" and "+14% attack speed", you now instead get one of the two and get another way to get more out of your champ by having to stack your PTA or Conqueror, or proc Phase Rush etc.

People just do not like change. People do not like having to relearn stuff, they want to just play the game the way they know and not willing to put in the effort to accept new (and better) changes. The runes reforged system was a very good change for the game, personally. Being in a position to play around your PTA or Conqueror, or Lethal Tempo, or the removed Klepto was a very fun addition to the game compared to the blandness of flat stat increase.

Let's not fool ourselves, most people didn't even bother making custom pages. They just copied what was suggested by some video or website and went with that. Kinda same as they do now. After all, in every situation, there is one specific way to customize your runes / masteries / item build to get the best results out of your champion and everything else is worse. The argument of "everyone goes Conqueror now and in the old days you have variance" does not stand. Even with the old system, one page was better than the others and people only changed it just to experiment, have fun with different setups etc. Kinda same as they do now. PTA Renekton instead of Conqueror, Phase Rush Vlad instead of Klepto - Spellbook etc.

I'm not saying that people should LIKE all changes, I'm just saying that people should be in a position to understand why the change is implemented. After all, if the game becomes stale, it becomes boring. Imagine still having the same runes-masteries system since basically the beginning of time. It would make the game much more boring. At least now, Riot can make impactful changes to runes so that every season can feel different and fresh, same as they did with the dragon changes.

Usernamehere123511/27/2019, 1:47:08 AM1 votes

I think while in theory, the old runes and mastery systems seem to be a more effective way of broadening options and allowing more diversity, in practice this was never true in League of Legends.

The reality with the runes and masteries were relatively simple; we had a system that was A) far more functionally complicated because the system itself was legitimately two separate systems. This not only makes both systems hard to balance as one entity (which they practically had to do because these systems worked hand in hand), but it also increases complexity. I wouldn't even leave this up to opinion. The old system was substantially more complex than the current runes system. I plainly disagree with you on your point that it wasn't, and if my points above aren't satisfying, feel free to ask me to go in depth.

The stats being moved to the background was indeed a minor failure on Riot's part. With that said, they have moved stats into the Runes system to be directly edited, rather than getting stats from the primary and secondary tree regardless of what you might've actually wanted.

I'd like to go in depth as to why the old runes system stifles creativity functionally, and how the new system is better designed to face the reality of what players do.

In short, the old runes system didn't invite creativity. There were very clear meta lines between what was acceptable, and what wasn't. There were certainly more options that champions could take, but any of these options were considered niche, and few champions if any ever went down non-standard paths. These variety of options also made balancing the major stat types of the game harder (consider movement speed and armor/magic penetration). Removing those options allowed for the standardizing of pen and movement stats, which was super healthy for the game. And in the case of niche rune setups, I feel as though many champions were well serviced by the new keystones in ways that superseded any niche rune page of old (one example would be predator replacing movement speed quintessences and making movement speed a more viable pathway for many champions including junglers like Gragas and Maokai).

With that said, there is no doubt that the current iteration of the runes system doesn't service all champions equally well. The old runes system definitely had a better handle on this, but that was at the cost of any level of functional creativity, increased complexity, and most importantly, trivialness. The old runes system had no real interactions in game (aside from the hurr durr 1% crit runes and other niche pages that many keystones already cover). The mastery system also suffered from this until keystones were introduced.

However, it can be argued (and rightfully so) that the current system isn't adequate. I'm on board with that idea, and furthermore, I'm for change in the system. I was one of the first to argue that the stats should be separated from the trees to allow for more creativity and adaptation. I think that the current system needs more options across the board, in every tree. Furthermore, I don't think it would be a bad idea to create another tree for champions that feel left out. The reality is that Inspiration doesn't cut the check for many champions, and keystone variety isn't quite up to where I'd like it to be. Ideas like these do have negative consequences (balancing, complexity, etc.), but I think such changes are necessary to create an adequate game environment for all champions.

Tl;dr - The current system is significantly less complex than the old system(s), and while theoretically allowing for more diversity and creativity, functionally didn't serve that purpose at all. While the current system isn't perfect in and of itself, I think that reverting back to the runes and mastery system of seasons 1-4 would be a grave mistake; and that rather, it would be wise to make changes to the system we already have.

If there are any points that someone can make against my arguments here, please leave a comment. And please use evidence to back up your points. Thanks for reading.