Some kits that could use updates this year

Blue Shift·Oct 18, 2019·38 votes·14,400 views

- Update model, make her weaker in lane or weaker late game. - Really not fun to play against. Don't know a good enough solution. - Kit and model are both outdated, keep Q and ult, while updating model - I don't play Skarner very much at all, could probably just use a new passive and model update. - Wouldn't mind a full change, Q is probably the only thing worth keeping

If you guys have any better suggestions or don't think one should be updated, let me know why.

74 Comments

Zero ShingetsuOct 18, 201924 votes

MasterYi - Has never had major changes, to my knowledge, and his kit isn't exactly fun to play from either side. Tryndamere - Same situation, but at least he's fun to play at support.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T23:38:42.411+0000)

- Has never had major changes, to my knowledge, and his kit isn't exactly fun to play from either side. - Same situation, but at least he's fun to play at support.

Master Yeet is a staple of league though, especially of the average low elo player so i don't think they'll touch him he's the iconic int champ

Zero ShingetsuOct 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Master Yeet is a staple of league though, especially of the average low elo player so i don't think they'll touch him he's the iconic int champ

You're probably right. And Tryndamere is literally the CEO's self-insert, so he's probably not getting any changes either, unless they're massive buffs.

GEZZEYOct 19, 201919 votes

diana lane phase is one of the weakest in the wtf are you on about

RagnaveilOct 19, 201912 votes

The problem I think they are going at is if she's ahead the current items she goes allows her to practically one rotation shot, which on a non-assassin is very unhealthy (she plays like one, but her design was AP Fighter first and foremost).

ThefrostyvikingOct 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

The problem I think they are going at is if she's ahead the current items she goes allows her to practically one rotation shot, which on a non-assassin is very unhealthy (she plays like one, but her design was AP Fighter first and foremost).

She has never been able to function as a AP fighter, ever.

She is far more like Rengar who was also intentioned as a fighter but ended up being an assassin while Riot washed their hands off it.

RagnaveilOct 19, 20191 votes

Which is a kit and itemization problem.

ThefrostyvikingOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Which is a kit and itemization problem.

Might as well just state that she needs a full on rework to make it work? That´s how you generally fix issue´s with kits not matching the intended gameplay.

As for items.....well that´s an entire branch that´s just missing but Riot is busy expanding on the lethality side.

RagnaveilOct 19, 20191 votes

Which is fine, because they are looking into Leth itself. AP Fighter/Bruiser itemization is a thing that will happen this preseason. They promised on it, and it would be disgusting if they went back on their word. They did mention they would do some work to her, which explains why they waited on doing any more changes after the one they put on the PBE long ago.

ThefrostyvikingOct 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Which is fine, because they are looking into Leth itself. AP Fighter/Bruiser itemization is a thing that will happen this preseason. They promised on it, and it would be disgusting if they went back on their word. They did mention they would do some work to her, which explains why they waited on doing any more changes after the one they put on the PBE long ago.

Riot is very adept at making promises that they do not keep at all or fail to deliver on properly, i wouldnt hold any great amount of hope up with them having basically already stated that they are working on AD stuff.

La BelloOct 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Which is a kit and itemization problem.

Ability Power does not have enough levers same as Attack damage(Crit/Attackspeed/Lifesteal) and thusly its far far harder to make a proper "ability bruiser" item that wont just end up with 4k HP LeBlancs that can still 1-rotate your backline.

the only methods riot has to make a AP fighter would be to make a kit that rewards and incentivises defensive purchases over pure AP OR/AND basically just make a AP champion with Alistar ult as a cheat method lala Swain and Singed.

Singed and Swain are the practically the only 2 champs in game that currently function as AP bruisers and thats mostly because of thier pretty busted ultimates. Singed just becomes a huge statstick gaining all the resist needed to become a tank outright meaning he only needs to pad his HP mainly. Swain gets constant hp drain that allows him to afk in the middle of the team and pick his nose. when you fail to tack on a ult like that you just get Rumble who is a "bruiser" that builds literally nothing but AP anyway.

Blue ShiftOct 19, 20198 votes

She has a quite strong laning phase, I'm sorry to say but you just don't know how to play her right in the laning phase.

Ahri BakaOct 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-10-19T01:01:59.673+0000)

She has a quite strong laning phase, I'm sorry to say but you just don't know how to play her right in the laning phase.

You can't really argue with them Diana is like one of the most defended champions here despite being one of the most cancerous ones

Ahri BakaOct 19, 20194 votes

{quoted}

diana lane phase is one of the weakest in the wtf are you on about

Pre 6 only.

SucctionOct 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

diana lane phase is one of the weakest in the wtf are you on about

Pre 6, she's quite weak, absolutely. Post 6 you cannot DARE step outside of your tower range as anybody without an instant, reliable cc and dash.

koshkyraOct 19, 20192 votes

Lane phase doesnt end at level 6 and she can win into the majority of matchups once she hits 6.

Charmy BirdOct 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

diana lane phase is one of the weakest in the wtf are you on about

Pre 6 yea but once she gets lvl 6 aka her full build she's rl strong

Project XayahOct 19, 201910 votes

Quinn - Has long since had little-to-no thematic value, and needs something to make them stand out as being a valuable choice in-game.

RagnaveilOct 19, 20191 votes

And make her go botlane. Quinn mains hate going top, and toplaners hate fighting Quinn.

VelasanOct 19, 20198 votes

Skarner Skarner is actually a pretty cool champion. He just needs the last rework updated. Spires are not fun, and his identity is very unclear and not crystallized.

He is supposed to be sort of a tanky fighter like Trundle or Shen, but the typical way to play him is full tank with a bunch of move speed and predator boots and just grab people.

I would rather he had more incentive to actually build like a fighter (or at least closer to Hecarim, build a couple damage items then go tank) and get rid of the spires then add that bonus to his base stats.

After all, at the end of the day he is still a champion who requires running straight at an enemy champion to be effective and there are a lot of ways to counter a champion with no dashes that has to make melee contact (as we've seen with how many times they had to buff Nasus to make him relevant).

NelsieLisnenOct 19, 20193 votes

That pun was crystal clear

AzuregoreOct 19, 20193 votes

He was fine before the dominion shenanigans. Just needed a little tuneup :(

GEZZEYOct 19, 20195 votes

ap fighter with what items roa nasher is a dead build. pre 6 diana is weak and can be ganked easily. she can one shot only if fed early but after that she is a sitting duck. ekko akali irelia does what she does only better and more safely.

InfernapeOct 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

ap fighter with what items roa nasher is a dead build. pre 6 diana is weak and can be ganked easily. she can one shot only if fed early but after that she is a sitting duck. ekko akali irelia doses what she does only better and more safely.

Which is why she needs a gameplay update to make her into what she was always supposed to be. And it would give Rito the perfect opportunity to visually update Leona too.

It doesn't help that Riot is allergic to making AP bruiser items.

Blue ShiftOct 19, 20192 votes

Take corrupting into heavy poke and dorans ring + 2 pots into medium poke. Use your w to soak poke as it is a very strong shield, procking twice and lasting a long time. If you can, use your q to start poking the enemy for either a jungle gank, or an all in early on. You can also use your q to farm caster minions/melees depending on how far you are pushed back from the enemy. You need to learn that some minions are just not possible to get, and diana has a very strong lane push as the game goes on with her aoe passive, q, and w. Sacrificing a few minions early on for survivability is a good thing to do. I have near or over 60% winrate as her this season in mid lane (I fucked up a few games by trying her jungle and it was alright, but other junglers are just 10x better).

PredatoratorOct 19, 20194 votes

thanks for not forgetti us Skarner main =)

ShahamutOct 19, 20193 votes

NaughtyWordOct 19, 20194 votes

Content Warning: Unpopular Opinion

I think Udyr could use a visual update if not a rework.

He's very one-dimensional in my opinion.

RagnaveilOct 19, 20191 votes

I think his stances should do something spell related, then give an effect based on what stance he's in. Right now, all of his stances do their effects on auto attacks, and the passives are on the auto attacks. Would make him more fun and not have the world's greatest weakness to anti-autoattack shit.

La BelloOct 19, 20194 votes

Diana Diana deserves a full VGU. updated model with completely new gameplay. her kit is way too binary as it stands. I'd say keep Q and Passive REMOVE the refresh portion of R BUT add E pull in effect to it (Diana rush to a target and pulls them in+slow). this leaves W and E as two new slots to craft much healthier gameplay while still not straying too far from what current Diana players are used to. W I dont think is worth keeping feels like a pretty filler skill most of the time and something better could be slotted into its place.

Zilean Zilean mostly I'd say give Q Bomb and E a charge system then replace W with something completely new and MAYBE look into reworking R. as it stands just "free GA: the champion" isnt all too exciting. I would like to see something a tad crazier with time powers. something like "after a 3 second Channel ZA WARUDO all ALLIEs AND ENEMIES in whatever range for some seconds. frozen enemies are treated as being in stasis and are untargetable/immune even Projectile skillshots get stopped . you just do something good with his time powers a completely unique effect that cant be replicated by any other champ or item

Skarner full.VGU. anything less is a tragedy. His kit is just such a big mess with no real direction right now and the ONLY thing he is good for is of course charging in and dragging a person to doom then after that kinda just being a little tickle monster (which turns to slaps on spires)

Trundle its so wierd you mention keeping Q but trashing everything else because I think the exact inverse. Pillar and Subjudgate are EXACTLY what keeps Trundle viable into the right comps and make him interesting as champion while providing him a niche (he's a super hard answer to tanks and Pillar is a super useful utility skill that does have a bit of skill expression to it). I'd say Q and W are the worst parts of his kit as they just turn him into a full on-stat check fighter thats not really fun to play vs. Q both mostly serving as just stat modifiers. I would much rather see W effects added to E and W become a completely new skill. there should be more to trundle than just W>right click and spamming Q off CD like Nasus. that gameplay is extremely archaic and a remnant of a simpler time when ALL champions were designed so simplisticaly and made to just run into each face and DPS RACE with auto attacks (Trynda,Yi,Jax,old GP,old Irelia, old Sion,old Aatrox, Xin) .

Nocturne is also deserving of a full VGU imo but mostly because he is ripe with untapped potential. he has a lot of cool things going on his kit but he needs a facelift,VO work and some modernization to realize it. since the sleep debuff is in the game as of Zoe I would like to see that incorporated into his kit too. sometime about truly making people feel alone and preying on a singular guy. Maybe instead of a death realm Nocturne can drag asleep people into a Nightmare realm where he gets access to some sort of powerful execute or something.

Tomoe GozenOct 19, 20191 votes

Hmm, if Riot intends to move Diana to become the AP assassin, she can't really keep her AA passive because it doesn't work for her kit. Katarina also has no power behind her AAs, the entirety of her damage comes from her kit itself. I agree on the R + E merger because it does actually sound cool to ram into a target and pull everyone in.

Now, if her passive becomes something else, Diana can ram into her target with R, pull everyone in the E AoE in and deal damage in the entire area equal to her current passive's damage and scaling but likely not keep the R reset. This also means that her R would need to get a bigger damage buff because it was gimped due to to Riot having the expectation that Diana will double R in fights by applying Q first.

This also means she can get something new for her passive and E and possibly a new Q effect for targets marked with Moonlight.

I'm not sure about her W, i don't think a shield for an Assassin would work but she really doesn't have an escape strategy once she goes in currently, which means that the shield might be needed.

However, if Riot's changing this much about Diana already (2 abilities and maybe her W), this is already similar to scope of a full VGU. I personally believe that she needs a better model and modernized effects.

La BelloOct 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-10-19T19:05:16.954+0000)

Hmm, if Riot intends to move Diana to become the AP assassin, she can't really keep her AA passive because it doesn't work for her kit. Katarina also has no power behind her AAs, the entirety of her damage comes from her kit itself. I agree on the R + E merger because it does actually sound cool to ram into a target and pull everyone in.

Now, if her passive becomes something else, Diana can ram into her target with R, pull everyone in the E AoE in and deal damage in the entire area equal to her current passive's damage and scaling but likely not keep the R reset. This also means that her R would need to get a bigger damage buff because it was gimped due to to Riot having the expectation that Diana will double R in fights by applying Q first.

This also means she can get something new for her passive and E and possibly a new Q effect for targets marked with Moonlight.

I'm not sure about her W, i don't think a shield for an Assassin would work but she really doesn't have an escape strategy once she goes in currently, which means that the shield might be needed.

However, if Riot's changing this much about Diana already (2 abilities and maybe her W), this is already similar to scope of a full VGU. I personally believe that she needs a better model and modernized effects.

where did you get the idea Riot wants Diana to be an assassin from? I think its universally agreed that Diana was intended to be a FIGHTER and somewhat durable diver NOT an assassin. cut from the same cloth as say XinZhao Fiora Irelia in the whole damage to durability ratio. Not a Juggernaut like Morde but also not a instagibber like LeBlanc or Fizz. Shes supposed to ride that fine line between.

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20191 votes

I know Riot has said she feels more like a fighter/diver but they never shared any details of what the changes would be for her. In her current form, she's closer to an AP assassin than she is a fighter and it's easier to change her into the Assassin than a Fighter as i suppose her kit would need extensive changes in the Fighter direction.

Wukong is not going to be a full VGU, if i gathered from what Riot was saying and saying that Diana's changes would be in similar to scope of Wukong's changes, that doesn't leave them with a lot of wiggle room for anything of bigger scope. Of course, that can change in the future as Riot mentioned Dianna in passing so nothing is concrete yet.

NelsieLisnenOct 19, 20191 votes

Omg kono DIO Zilean sounds like a tight idea. Like, stopping time and then placing strategic bombs. Plus he'd become much more meme-able.

NelsieLisnenOct 19, 20193 votes

I think I read on some Boards post, that a rioter said this year will see yet another VGU poll, with the remaining previous contenders plus a couple more. Interesting choices though:

Diana is probably the most streamlined assassin in the game and too feast or famine, with a mostly uninteractive kit. In terrible need of an update.
Zil is a personal gripe of mine. The only reason I think he isn't garnering attention is because he is always viable. But he desperately needs a visual update plus a kit that makes him feel like an actual time mage, not a maniacal bomber. I think it was a mistake of riot to release another time mage like Ekko before considering putting those mechanics into Zil's kit.
Noc: We'll probably see him again in the next poll, should it happen. He might get a chance this year since him and Shyvana came 4th and 3rd accordingly.
Skarner: I think he is a mess of a concept. Crystal scorpion sounds kinda cool, until you see that derpy humanoid face
Trundle is in a good spot visually. Maybe a better ultimate that can absorb adaptive stats, depending on the enemy, would make him more than just a Sejuani counterpick.

Tomoe GozenOct 19, 20193 votes

Diana's been confirmed for changes in 2020, similar in scope to what Wukong will get. This will likely also give Riot the excuse to update her visuals and model - i hope. Shyvana is also been confirmed for getting changes (possibly a VGU), given that in the previous Fiddle + Voli VGU poll, she was #1 in China. So Riot said they'll look into her as well.

I love to play Zilean but you're right. His new passive is perfect for him but the rest of his kit is fun for the Zil player, not fun for the enemy team. I play him because i think he's a fun support that has big mage qualities and the absolute denial of kills with his ult but i also don't like playing against him for the same reasons. And his model and VFX are so outdated that i personally don't want any of his skins, in their current form. Blood Moon and his Dessert skin are nice but on a model that's not appealing at all.

NelsieLisnenOct 19, 20191 votes

Hopefully, however, I hate it when they do these lazy a$$ gameplay tweaks like Wukong's/Leblanc's/Rengar's that end up not changing much. I think Diana needs a full on VGU, especially now that we're getting the second Lunari champion ever.

Shyv is a strong contender yeah, all hail the Chinese investors.

I don't mind Zil in my games, his kit may keep you on edge all the time, but at least he's not Nautilus. I just feel bad for the guy, he's one of the most neglected champs in the game and he keeps escaping their attention.

RagnaveilOct 19, 20192 votes

One of the problems with Diana is Moonlight. Like, this shit doesnt do anything meaningful outside of giving her R a reset. It should be the core mechanic of her kit when they rework her. Change what it does and help her return to the AP Fighter she wanted to be with the rest of the changes. If they help make her a fighter, you bet damn well I want to try her out.

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20191 votes

Honestly, Xin's changes didn't change much about him but they panned out pretty well. So although i like more full VGUs due to giving a champ a complete pass in terms of mechanics and art/effects quality, not every champion needs a complete overhaul, which would allow Riot to speed up the update process by only giving a full VGU to champs that really need it.

Otherwise we get stuck in a complete loop of waiting for years for a specific champion rework because these projects take at least a couple of months to realize and we realistically can only get 3-4 a year. But even if as i say this, i know that lesser priority projects can get put on the list as "later", when the art team gets freed up so they can work on the proposed changes.

NelsieLisnenOct 20, 20191 votes

Reworks don't have to take so much time to be delivered if riot want to focus on them. Most "old era" champs, say pre-Yasuo, that haven't been reworked deserve either visual or gameplay reworks imo. And of course VGUs don't have to be so spread apart. In 2018 we got not 3, not 4, but 6 VGUs out of which 4 were very drastic. Swain, Irelia, Akali, Aatrox, Nunu and Ezreal. And those were for champs that needed extensive care in certain areas. I think it has to do with riot focusing more on new champs rather than reworks lately but realistically, I think 6 reworks a year is pretty feasible if they decide to put creative weight there.

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20191 votes

Keep in mind that Riot holds polls every year to see what their focus should be fore the time being - new champs or reworks. In 2018, polls said more reworks, less new champs and so they focused their efforts there.

In 2018, the schedule looked like this:

2/7/2018 Swain rework. Close to 2 months later

3/7/2018 Kai'Sa came out

4/4/2018 Irelia rework. Close to 2 months later

5/31/2018 Pyke came out

6/27/2018 Aatrox rework. A mere month later

7/31/2018 Akali rework. Two months later

9/28/18 Nunu rework. Close to 2 weeks later

10/9/2018 Ezreal rework.

12/5/2018 Neeko came out

This is 9 champion releases (new and old) in the span of the whole year. We're on average getting in 2018 a new rework every two months. New champs came out sporadically in between these 2 month periods, to fill the gaps.

NelsieLisnenOct 20, 20191 votes

Exactly, if they feel like it, they can make it happen. I'm hopeful for Senna, but if the new champion releases remain on the level of the last few ones then I'd rather have a year rework-exclusive

DaddyissuessOct 19, 20193 votes

Karma she can be played in 3 different lanes which is really hard to balance. This champ is only getting nerfs because of her kit.

SukishooOct 19, 20192 votes

This year? This year is almost over. I think you mean next year.

Blue ShiftOct 19, 20193 votes

This upcoming year, same as when it's saturday and you say "let's hang out this week".

SukishooOct 19, 20192 votes

No, that is not the same no matter how you put it cause you said THIS YEAR. This year is 2019, and they already went through everything for the year. NEXT YEAR is what you want.

SaezioOct 19, 20192 votes

Diana doesn't need any more nerfs.

She needs a full rework. Either make her an assassin or make her something else. ATM she is kept weak because she is a bullean variable in every game.

She can oneshot people and is Strong AF
She can't oneshot people so she is Weak AF

NelsieLisnenOct 19, 20191 votes

I'd be curious to see what would happen if they made her a full on AP diver rather than an assassin.

LovelleOct 20, 20191 votes

Trundle's Q is what you would keep, really? That's easily the weakest skill in his kit.

His kit is fine for the most part, he just needs a less situational ult, so he actually has a defensive cooldown when there's no tank on the enemy team to drain. Literally every other melee champion in the game has at least one defensive cooldown that's not reliant on the enemy team comp to use. He's a juggernaut as well, which makes it even worse.

kasmanjaeOct 21, 20191 votes

Tahm Kench needs changes, his winrate is 43% for multiple patches, he has not a single role, and he is very hard to balance due to the nature of his utility or damage choice he used to have. Now he doesn't have either since Rito decided that if you ain't selling skins, you WR ain't going above 50%.