Zed W has more range that Kassadin ult now.

Visigoth··68 votes·4,129 views

And that allows you to use an ability a second time pretty much, and also give free bonus AD. Let's not forget Kassadin has to spend tons of mana on his ult after a bit, meanwhile Zed is practically resourceless. Zed jump is 550, Kass ult is 450. Wtf Riot.

Nidalee jump is 375 range, is literally free, and has a shorter cooldown. Why would I even play Kassadin now when I can just play Nidalee and be better in literally every way, other than 75 less range on my dash, which I will always at level 3 instead of 6.

63 Comments

agbudar24 votes

kassadin has been hated soo much already

zed is too opressive?

better nerf kassadin,

Anatharion17 votes

Hopefully Zed's jump will get nerfed too.

Solaxo5 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully Zed's jump will get nerfed too.

Nope. LC$ big flashy plays!

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

Nope. LC$ big flashy plays!

You can't say that here, Kassadin also makes big flashy LCS plays.

Auz the Ripper4 votes

his play don't look good enough

No, I'm afraid he must go in the dumpster with all the other plebian scum that dreamed they stand up to the our great and glorious emperor, Lee Sin, and his shogun, Zed.

Junkο2 votes

Zed can't spam it. LB, Ez or any other with spammable dash should tho, ESPECIALLY fucking Kalista

R3TR3AT1 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully Zed's jump will get nerfed too.

it has already been nerfed wnough. back i dont know whwne when they made the cooldown waaaaaay longer on it

Ulquiorra99510 votes

Zed also has his ult, meaning 2 jumps.

Leblanc's W also has more range, and she can use it 4 times (2 jumps, 2 returns).

Nid's W has more range on hunted target and can use it almost immediately again to escape.

Lee's W has more range, and his Q has more than double the range.

Do I even have to go on Kalista?

Tell me more about how "Kass deals too much damage for his mobility". And I like how you blatantly lied about how you won't touch it. It's more like "We want to pretend fixing the mobility meta, but don't want to nerf LeeSin. Sorry, Kassadin. Your iconic mobility we clearly promised not to touch has to go."

BetaDude404 votes

I love that the only champion in the game who pays for his mobility is Kassadin (correct me if I am wrong on that), and he is receiving a massive nerf so that what you pay is WAY more expensive than what is now basically a damage-dealing flash. Meanwhile, Nidalee can jump to a hunted target from anywhere at no cost and cause ass-tons of damage in a single second, and nobody at Riot looks at her.

It's the like champions that are perfectly fine are being thrown into the shit-basket. Again.

Adrian Umbra1 votes

Quick correction on Nidalee: She has a range on her poince-directly-to-hunted-target, around that of Kassadin's current ult range (750 to his 700) and only if she lands her W or Q first.

Also, last I checked Kassadin was about the second or third most picked/banned champ in NA LCS (with Lissandra and J4). Still no idea why he deserves to have the range on his ult hit this hard, but there's at least a little reasoning for you. Hopefully Riot will see exactly how hard this hits him and withdraws the changes from the PBE, but I'm really starting to doubt they will...

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Because RIOT still think that what's played on LCS is played because it's OP. That's not true: they are played because they have their own meta and will always play champions that are at the top of this meta, until someone finds something that counters it and the meta shifts.

That's how it used to be before, but now, RIOT just insta-nerves everything when it sees too much play at LCS, leaving the players with zero chance to build the meta by themselves. The proof is that there are champions that hasn't been changed for years and now they are "suddenly OP".

Adrian Umbra1 votes

Meta shifts are a big part of why certain champions come out of the woodwork (see Graves), and that's a large part of why Sivir, J4, and Gnar are currently so popular in the LCS: they support hard engage comps really well. It's a large part of why AP Nidalee is seeing a comeback: Poke comps, which tend to do well against many hard engage comps. But some of the champs used here are also absolutely overtuned and could use some changes (and some are undertuned and could use some changes, but that's besides the point). The pros aren't the only places where they're incredibly successful. And I feel that Riot seems to ignore those champs in favor of nerfing the meta-supporting or meta-countering characters we've been seeing a lot of lately (Azir, Xerath, etc).

Kassadin is currently desired among the pros for his roaming potential, his slippery nature, and his incredibly consistent burst damage. He's not as damaging or mobile as other champions, but that consistency gives him the edge over many champions who are mobile and rely on dodging/hitting skillshots. He's not an amazing, pick, but he is a solid one. THAT'S why he's picked in the LCS. And a nerf to his ult range won't really fix that, it'll just push him down and out of peoples' view until he either receives buffs or the meta shifts to where consistent, targeted damage is desirable.

KaisadiIIa2 votes

Kass deals too much damage for his mobility Kass has one of the lowest damage in this game, even some supports have more raw damage than him.

Bisaknosp6 votes

no nerf zed's w to 200

1st HanarSpectre6 votes

If people are curious. 450 is the range of Renekton's slice 'n dice (and one usage of Ahri's ult if you know this champion better).

RogueWill5 votes

What? League players keep picking Kassadin Kassadin ?

I though It was obvious we didn't want them to play him. He is our next Urgot

Solaxo2 votes

{quoted}

What? League players keep picking Kassadin Kassadin ?

I though It was obvious we didn't want them to play him. He is our next Urgot

Urgot is fine. He's just unpopular. I bet you've never played him

RogueWill3 votes

I actually I have play him. I think the only 2 "viable ways"are adc or top Top: you simply aren't tanky enough and you scale awful late game, you might be able to shutdown a top laner but once lane phase is out you are pretty much useless. Adc. Your wave clear isn't the best and your ult is pretty much useless unless you put someone under turret. So you might dominate 1-5 but once the enemy hit 6 unless youa re quite ahead at that tike it will be downhill.

Junkο2 votes

He can also be played jungle with the perma slow on W and middle against assassins and short range mages

I played him for a bit after getting mystery gifted Crabgot by Riot, he is actually viable if you know how to hit a skillshot

RogueWill1 votes

Jungle might work in terms of clearing camps but ganks won't be as reliable since your perma slow is dependent on your shield. After 6 his ult should help secure kills on mid and top ganks but you will have a hard time ganking bot, and if I'm not mistaken the ult cd is actually pretty high at all levels (around the 2 min mark).

Another issue is your lack of dash which severely limits your mobility on the jungle (specially on counterjungle scenarios)

Junkο1 votes

All of this sounds like it would make Urgot an unviable jungler... then you realize needing a long CD ultimate and having no mobility doesn't stop WW at all. Unlike WW who without his ultimate will most of the time just scare the enemy off with 0 damage dealt, Urgot if he lands his E can poke them down and possibly bully them out of lane if he has a Brutalizer.

Also Urgot out duels most champions in the jungle. His passive reduces damage (by quite a big amount) and his E shreds armor. His high DPS and the fact that most junglers are melee usually means he doesn't even need to land E. Also his shield (which is actually pretty huge) allows him to clear most camps after the first clear without taking much damage.

RogueWill1 votes

You might be right. I haven't really jungled with Urgot so I'm unsure if his shield is as reliable as you say. I guess I should prepare a run page for him and run 10 matches trial with him as a jungler and let you know what I think.

SmokinSickStyle2 votes

Wake up, everyone's dash ability is now better in terms of range, why play Skassadin when you can play Lebonk, the only thing Skassadin had over others was moderate resilience against AP damage and much shorter CD on his ult, WHICH HE PAID GREATLY as his base damages combined are the same for LB Q-W combo almost lol.

It's not Zed's W range is longer than Kassa's, it's Kassa's that has less range than any blink in the game, these changes are VERY unneeded.

Blind Pursuit2 votes

They gutted him because he is a good top pick atm and didn't want to see him become playable in top lane cuz he would use his dick as a hammer of dawn to most tops riot has prepared to be the top "kings or "queens"

Vistha Kai1 votes

You, sir, won the internet for that "hammer-dick".

Borigrad1 votes

You're actually defending Kassadin. Kassadin I can go to any lane and win it with no effort kassadin? That kassadin, who breaks the game in half with his dick and is must pick or ban in every regions competitive scene. Wow you people are insane with your hatred of Zed.

BetaDude408 votes

You mean Kassadin: the only champion in the game I can think of at the moment who actually pays for his mobility in a hard scaling mana cost? The same champion that lost his silence, had more power distributed to his melee attack, can't use one of his spells that is a somewhat short-range slow unless other people keep using their spells, and has received so many nerfs to the point where everything in his kit is near-useless save for his ult (even though Akali other Zed champions Yasuo have LeeSin just Ahri as much Kalista MOBILITY, if not also having a much better kit in general and function much better than Kass)

If we were still having to deal with OP as hell pre-nerf Kassadin when he still had his silence, then your defense might be justified. But he has been hit so hard that winning takes much more effort. His kit is so shallow and useless pre-6, and it has always been he could shine when he hit level 6 when he could ult. If he's still having the scaling mana cost, though, for a dash that is literally outranged by summoner 4 then I think there is a slight problem, don't you think??

Borigrad1 votes

{quoted}

You mean Kassadin: the only champion in the game I can think of at the moment who actually pays for his mobility in a hard scaling mana cost? The same champion that lost his silence, had more power distributed to his melee attack, can't use one of his spells that is a somewhat short-range slow unless other people keep using their spells, and has received so many nerfs to the point where everything in his kit is near-useless save for his ult (even though Akali other Zed champions Yasuo have LeeSin just Ahri as much Kalista MOBILITY, if not also having a much better kit in general and function much better than Kass)

If we were still having to deal with OP as hell pre-nerf Kassadin when he still had his silence, then your defense might be justified. But he has been hit so hard that winning takes much more effort. His kit is so shallow and useless pre-6, and it has always been he could shine when he hit level 6 when he could ult. If he's still having the scaling mana cost, though, for a dash that is literally outranged by summoner 4 then I think there is a slight problem, don't you think??

You ever stop to think they need to keep removing stuff from Kassadin because he's hilariously overpowered? You ever stop to think he's toxic as hell design for this game? You ever stop to think the reason Kassadin is getting nerfed again is because he is pick or ban status in every region? Meanwhile those champions you listed are not PICK OR BAN status, they are just good picks. But any one of those champions can be interchanged with another without hurting your team comp or auto losing the game, besides Ahri. Sorry I don't circle-jerk and shoot it all into the bucket that is Gameplay and balance boards and i actually watch the pro scene, watch patterns, and use data to back up my opinions instead of "I'm a shit player and i can't beat assassins in lane." That everyone else here seems to use. Balance shouldn't be based on the lowest common denominator.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

first of all, how dare you second of all, kass isn't an assassin anymore, he's an AP fighter (which is completely stupid atm) third of all, if you're banning kass still, you need to not play this game anymore because season 3 and early season 4 are over.

BetaDude402 votes

Well, he is right that Kass has a high ban rate. He's banned in 40% of all ranked games in 4th place (Nidalee first, Jarvan second, Irelia third). He isn't pick or ban like he said, because Kass is nowhere near the top 15 ranked picks. He's currently somewhere around the middle seeing barely more play than Malphite but with a lot less of a winrate.

Borigrad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vE5NNQtQ,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T16:27:47.480+0000)

first of all, how dare you second of all, kass isn't an assassin anymore, he's an AP fighter (which is completely stupid atm) third of all, if you're banning kass still, you need to not play this game anymore because season 3 and early season 4 are over.

He's pick or ban in Korea and China. It's like talking to fucking bricks.

BetaDude403 votes

Can you show this data? I'd be intrigued to see you use actual data instead of just your opinion

BetaDude403 votes

So, Sona, at some point a million nerfs ago, was overpowered as hell, and still received nerfs because she still was overpowered? The same champion whose heal at level 1 is less than that of a single Relic Shield charge? Same one whose only CC is her ult, and barely does damage unless you somehow stun them under tower? Because a champion that has, for some reason, received huge amounts of nerfs = OP?

What part about Kassadin, honestly, is toxic? Is it his ult? Ahri LeeSin Kalista Nidalee Zed Yasuo Leblanc Akali all have much more mana/energy efficient gap-closers that can potentially be just as powerful as Kass's mobility, except without the scaling costs. After the nerfs, almost all of those dashes and blinks and what-not will completely outrange Kassadin for a fraction of the cost with non-ultimate abilities. Q Silence was removed for a channel interrupt and a very short-lived magic shield. His W is tied to his melee, short-range basic attack, and is about the only thing in his kit that does damage anymore. His E requires 6 spells to activate, and all it provides is slightly more damage than his Q along with a slow. Again, all of that is very short range, meaning you have to ult into range to use any of it. If you reduce his ult range, keep the scaling mana cost, and keep his short-range abilities, he will be absolutely useless

You're right that he has a high ban rate (~40% ban rate in all ranked games, ranked #4 of all champions behind Nidalee, Jarvan and Irelia [in EUW, he's 3rd top ban behind Nid and Irelia at nearly 55% of ranked games. In Brazil, he's #6 at around 30%]). However, he is not "pick or ban", he's not even in the top 15 most popular for any region. In all ranked games, he has a 9.38% pickrate and 47% winrate (if you have both a low pick and win rate, then generally there might be something wrong. Notice I said generally, as win/pick rate isn't a good measure of champion strength unless it's some insane outlier). He barely sees more play than Malphite, but at a much lower winrate.

Sources: http://www.lolking.net/champions/ and http://www.lolking.net/charts

There, I used data as well. Shall we use more?

Kassadin passive: -15% magic damage taken and ignores unit collision Zed passive: Zed's basic attacks do 6/8/10% max health to target as magic damage when target is below 50% health. Effect only occurs once every 10 seconds

Kass Q: lock on, deals 70/95/120/145/170 (70% AP) and gives magic shield that lasts 1.5 seconds at 40/70/100/130/160 (30% AP). Mana cost is 70/75/80/85/90 on a 9 second cooldown at 650 range Zed Q: skillshot, deals 75/115/155/195/235 (100% AD). Second target receives 60% damage. Shadow Shuriken deals 50% damage and restores energy if both shurikens hit the same target. Costs 75/70/65/60/55 energy on a 6 second cooldown at 900 range [little note, a rank 5 shuriken with no CDR is fully refunded after cooldown expires because of Zed's energy regeneration]

Kass W: basic attack enhancer, passively causes his basic attacks to do 20 + 10% AP damage on hit. Active causes next basic attack to deal 40/65/90/115/140 (60% AP) and restore 4/5/6/7/8% missing mana on hit (x5 mana restored on champion hit). On a 9 second cooldown with no cost Zed W: linear skillshot, passively increases Zed's bonus AD by 5/10/15/20/25%. Active creates a shadow for 4 seconds that mimics Zed's abilities and can be swapped with. Any hit from the shadow's abilities restores 20/25/30/35/40 energy. It is on a 18/17/16/15/14 second cooldown with energy at 40/35/30/25/20

Kass E: conic AoE, passively gains charges whenever a spell is cast by or around him. At 6 charges, he can activate it to do a 50/60/70/80/90% slow for 1 second and do 80/105/130/155/180 (70% AP) damage. 700 range, 80 mana on 6 second cooldown [another note, it's gated by the fact that 6 spells have to be cast around him, so cooldown isn't always relevant) Zed E: instant AoE, does 60/90/120/150/180 (80% AD) and slows for 20/25/30/35/40% to all targets within 290 range. Each champion hit reduces cooldown of his W by 2 seconds. Shadow Slice also slows, and provides 50% of the current slow of his E on top of Zed's original slow (20% becomes a 30% slow, ect.) but it deals no additional damage. This also restores energy. Cost is 50 energy on a 4 second cooldown

Kass ult: ground targeted blink, can teleport Kass 700 units (soon to be 450 units) away, and deals 80/100/120 (2% max mana) damage to targets 150 units from target location. Each subsequent teleport within 20 seconds adds a stack, which doubles the mana cost and increases damage by 50%, up to 4 times. Initial cost at all levels is 75. After riftwalking n times within 20 seconds, the total cost over time is 75/225/525/1125/2325, dealing a maximum of 240/300/360 (6% max mana) on the final stack [previous damage I listed is based on level, not how many stacks you acquire]. Has a 7/5/3 second cooldown Zed ult: single-targetted dash, Zed becomes untargetable for 0.75 seconds and dashes behind target. Marks the target and creates another shadow in the cast location that lasts for 6 seconds that functions the same as his W. This shadow can also be swapped with. After 3 seconds, death mark triggers, dealing 100% of Zed's AD (+25/25/50% of all physical and magic damage dealt to the target in those 3 seconds). Has a 120/100/80 second cooldown.

So, which one do you think does more damage? Which one has the higher pick and win rate? Which one does both physical and magic damage, has insanely low costs with insanely high regeneration, and does extremely massive damage in 3 seconds of time?

"I'm a shit player and i can't beat assassins in lane"

Does Kass have the waveclear Zed does? Does he have both the engage and disengage? Does he have the flat-out irrelevant energy costs on all of his abilities? Please, provide a stronger argument other than I am somehow abusing the power of the circle-jerk (which I don't think it's a circle-jerk, I think it's a bunch of people that have realized how powerful Zed truly is)

Solaxo5 votes

{quoted}

You're actually defending Kassadin. Kassadin I can go to any lane and win it with no effort kassadin? That kassadin, who breaks the game in half with his dick and is must pick or ban in every regions competitive scene. Wow you people are insane with your hatred of Zed.

If you lose against Kass in top or bot lane then I suggest you to uninstall this game.

Borigrad4 votes

{quoted}

If you lose against Kass in top or bot lane then I suggest you to uninstall this game.

Yeah those stupid fucking Koreans playing Kassadin into Gnar and winning the lane WHAT A BUNCH OF GARBAGE PLAYERS. Thank you Solaxo, level 30 EUNE Who doesn't have a badge at all for really explainig exactly why the Korean pro scene is bad at league of legends.

Droogzy2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah those stupid fucking Koreans playing Kassadin into Gnar and winning the lane WHAT A BUNCH OF GARBAGE PLAYERS. Thank you Solaxo, level 30 EUNE Who doesn't have a badge at all for really explainig exactly why the Korean pro scene is bad at league of legends.

Gnar has a spammable skill, and one that can be dodged rather easily too. Kassadin loves champion with spammable skills, not hard to figure out why he did well.

MrSexyHobo2 votes

{quoted}

You're actually defending Kassadin. Kassadin I can go to any lane and win it with no effort kassadin? That kassadin, who breaks the game in half with his dick and is must pick or ban in every regions competitive scene. Wow you people are insane with your hatred of Zed.

i havent seen a kassadin do well in a long time. he pretty much gets kills if your team already got the champ down to 20 hp because his chase is ok but his damage is horrible. now you would be lucky if you ever got a kill at all

Borigrad3 votes

{quoted}

i havent seen a kassadin do well in a long time. he pretty much gets kills if your team already got the champ down to 20 hp because his chase is ok but his damage is horrible. now you would be lucky if you ever got a kill at all

He's pick or ban in Korea and China. It's like talking to fucking bricks.

MrSexyHobo1 votes

{quoted}

He's pick or ban in Korea and China. It's like talking to fucking bricks.

i dont play in korea or watch koreans play

BetaDude401 votes

Wow, you are the epitome of laziness, literally copying verbatim of what you said earlier.

So, I shall respond in the exact same manner (as you have yet to respond to either of my counter-arguments):

Can you show this data? I'd be intrigued to see you use actual data instead of just your opinion.

KaisadiIIa2 votes

You know Kassadin has been in the game since 2,009, and he was never "must pick or ban" (just a few months in early 2,014), true?

Borigrad1 votes

{quoted}

You know Kassadin has been in the game since 2,009, and he was never "must pick or ban" (just a few months in early 2,014), true?

no, not true at all. Kassadin has been nerfed a lot since his release and has always been one of the strongest picks in the game.

BetaDude401 votes

Okay, once more! Since you have yet to provide me with a counter-argument, and you seem to be side-stepping all my posts, I will ask ONE MORE TIME. If you don't answer me again, then I'm just going to assume I won this argument.

Ahem

Can you show this data? I'd be intrigued to see you use actual data instead of just your opinion

AHeroNamedHawke2 votes

{quoted}

You know Kassadin has been in the game since 2,009, and he was never "must pick or ban" (just a few months in early 2,014), true?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

BetaDude401 votes

I believe all through Season 3 when he still had his silence, he had the most ridiculous ban rate of any champion in the game, like somewhere around 80-90% of all ranked games (needs confirmation). Of course, things have changed drastically since then.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

He had ~50-60% ban rate the last months of 2,013, and grew to 99.4% ban rate iirc at the first months of 2,014.

ForgiveColour1 votes

leblanc is 600 that does aoe dmg with 3 second cd

CoolKnightST1 votes

{quoted}

leblanc is 600 that does aoe dmg with 3 second cd

Let's nerf it to 500. That's still a 1000 range gapcloser with her ult.

Mannysmoker1 votes

So if riot nerfs any mid laners, ppl immediately turn into Zed, wtf is wrong with you all, leave Zed alone.

Durzaka1 votes

This Kass nerf is fucking disgusting.

Yes, Kassadin is really strong. No, this is not the right way to fucking nerf him.

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