Can we stop pretending Kha'Zix wasnt seriously overbuffed?

Hibeki·Apr 10, 2018·51 votes·23,628 views

Kha'Zix was already incredibly strong before this 'compensation' for the Duskblade nerfs (which he could abuse so much harder than anyone else)

Now with this serious overbuff, with the logic behind it being that they removed an effect on his W that most players didnt even know he had, that he shouldn't have had anyway, for an extra .4 ad on Q.

Kha'Zix still builds Duskblade. He still abuses it. Now hes even more top of the jungle.

EDIT: The buff is actually way bigger than .4 AD. ORiginally he ha 120% AD and 65% isolation bonus, now its 130% (which should be enough by itself) and 100% bonus. So thats actuallly .62% bonus ad increased for no reason. Remember wukong buff? Scaling added per level? Nah fuck that we gonna give an extra .6 at base.

94 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirApr 11, 201834 votes

The buff is actually way bigger than .4 AD. ORiginally he ha 120% AD and 65% isolation bonus, now its 130% (which should be enough by itself) and 100% bonus. So thats actuallly .62% bonus ad increased for no reason. Remember wukong buff? Scaling added per level? Nah fuck that we gonna give an extra .6 at base.

Ironically, Wukong saw about 3.5x the win rate increase that Kha'Zix saw. I guess Wukong was 3.5x seriously overbuffed.

HibekiApr 11, 20188 votes

The difference between Wukong and Kha'Zix were on entirely different power levels. Wukong needed buffs to be playable, while Kha'Zix was already incredibly strong, Yet still got less of a buff than Kha'Zix.

So of course. When bad champion gets a big buff, and an already very strong champion gets a bigger buff, one is gonna see a much higher increase in winrate. Adding 12 inches to a 1 foot tall pole will double the length, but adding 15 inches to a 3 foot long pole is not double.

Comparing the wukong buff winrate increase to the kha'zix buff winrate increase isn't fair. My comparison is valid, since you took an approach of adding scaling per level rather than just .6 ad level 1. I wasnt referring to Wukong's winrate increase at all, but rather the good approach to the buff.

RiotRiotRepertoirApr 11, 201821 votes

Your comparison isn't valid because you ignored the parts of Kha'Zix's list that were nerfs in order to better prove your point to people that weren't fully informed of what the complete set of changes was. Kha'Zix had power funneled into his core gameplay loop and out of other powerful, but less visible things like his early clear speeds and safety.

HibekiApr 11, 20189 votes

You removed bonus damage to monsters on W, a whopping 20%, then seriously overbuffed his Q. Practically every patch before that is just buffs.

He should have been nerfed AND duskblade nerfed. But rather than giving a small buff, you gave a HUGE buff. He really shouldnt have been buffed at ALL.

'parts of the list that was nerfed'. So in total you removed something very small he didnt need in the first place than gave him the biggest buff he's ever had.

Toothierosprey3Apr 11, 20184 votes

Massively overbuffed to a massive 50% winrate!!

HibekiApr 12, 20183 votes

I guess that 90% ban rate in korea means nothing then

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

Ban rate doesn't conclusively determine how powerful a champ is. Also, I'm not seeing a 90% ban rate in any elo on league of graphs.

HibekiApr 12, 20181 votes

Yes, it does, if it wasnt powerful an incredibly mass majority of a community wouldn't be banning it.

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

People ban obnoxious champs. Sometimes, its because they're obnoxiously strong, but most of the time it's because they don't like playing against them.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 11, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Your comparison isn't valid because you ignored the parts of Kha'Zix's list that were nerfs in order to better prove your point to people that weren't fully informed of what the complete set of changes was. Kha'Zix had power funneled into his core gameplay loop and out of other powerful, but less visible things like his early clear speeds and safety.

than place the list in this topic so we can have a better/serious discussion please, and compare the buffs to the nerfs, thank you.

HibekiApr 12, 20184 votes

But they wont because there really isnt one. You cast one maybe 2 void spikes per camp, and that bonus damage does not make or break his clearing. It was not a proper power adjust

Devilreaper XIIIApr 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But they wont because there really isnt one. You cast one maybe 2 void spikes per camp, and that bonus damage does not make or break his clearing. It was not a proper power adjust

O.o, there still should be a list of buffs and nerfs. riotrepertoire should have access to it and could post it, instead of having such a child like reaction [sg-ahri-3] he could make a real point and disucuss this in all seriousness, how are WE the players supposed to take riot employee serious, when they don't take US the players serious....?

riotrepertoire mentioned nerfs, he should've posted the entire list of buffs/nerfs and why they did this in all honesty, his/her reactions were not very constructive and if he/she can't even post it like you said in this comment, than you win this discussion.

HibekiApr 12, 20181 votes

We have access to all of kha's changes on the wiki. Previous nerfs/buffs dont mean anything as all the changes with kha in that patch were supposed to be in relation to eachother. The only nerf was the removal of the extra damage to monsters, which is barely any power removal.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We have access to all of kha's changes on the wiki. Previous nerfs/buffs dont mean anything as all the changes with kha in that patch were supposed to be in relation to eachother. The only nerf was the removal of the extra damage to monsters, which is barely any power removal.

lol my point was that riotrepertoir instead of whining couldve posted it and actually tried to communicate/discuss. and i agree with you, but i also think most if not all assassins are out of control.

AirKingNeoApr 11, 20186 votes

Overpowered champion

Nerf 1 thing about him

Buff 3 things

Wow, still overpowered...

EnloctApr 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Your comparison isn't valid because you ignored the parts of Kha'Zix's list that were nerfs in order to better prove your point to people that weren't fully informed of what the complete set of changes was. Kha'Zix had power funneled into his core gameplay loop and out of other powerful, but less visible things like his early clear speeds and safety.

No comparison of buffs between Wukong and Kha'zix is valid because one was overpowered to begin with and the other wasn't.

Kha'zix also has 7x the playrate as Wukong. Down from 13x the playrate.

DramidanApr 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Your comparison isn't valid because you ignored the parts of Kha'Zix's list that were nerfs in order to better prove your point to people that weren't fully informed of what the complete set of changes was. Kha'Zix had power funneled into his core gameplay loop and out of other powerful, but less visible things like his early clear speeds and safety.

Why is he allowed to abuse arguably the most broken and overpowered mechanic in the game which has no counter to it? Who was the fuckstick at your company that thought it would be an awesome idea to give a champion that can oneshot squishies the ability to stay perma stealth?

Devilreaper XIIIApr 11, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Ironically, Wukong saw about 3.5x the win rate increase that Kha'Zix saw. I guess Wukong was 3.5x seriously overbuffed.

''can't win on serious discussion so throws it on childish nonsense.'' [zombie-brand-facepalm] is this how riot employee are and should behave???? no wonder this game is going downhill [zombie-brand-mindblown]

he only compared the buff history/pattern not the champions......

and win rates don't mean champions are strong or weak, just whether they are popular or not. are they/you this much butthurt on players critizing the buffs/nerfs/(alleged balancing)?

try having a discussion and explaining why buff/nerf/balance rather than spouting nonsense. you just keep the fire going with this behaviour it just encourages players to become more toxic.

Toothierosprey3Apr 11, 20181 votes

How is this nonsense? If he really was overbuffed his winrate would show it. It makes no sense to say that winrates are dependent on popularity, unless the sample size is extremely small.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

How is this nonsense? If he really was overbuffed his winrate would show it. It makes no sense to say that winrates are dependent on popularity, unless the sample size is extremely small.

winrates are calculated by X amount of players winning X amount of matches compared to Y amount of lose. any % of that lose/winrate could've been due to team comp, or their allies taking objectives, this game is a team game, maybe opponents keep getting trolls/afkers/dcers you just don't know and these factors aren't calculated in, just win or lose. another major factor is amount of players, if many players play and screw up/troll, ofcourse winrates will be lower as well.

lets take zed and morde : both on mid zed is popular and morde is not.

with zed based on 546660 games mid with morde based on 1545 games mid and with morde based on 4493 games top

zed has 50.90% winrate on mid morde has 52.36% winrate on mid morde has 47.19% winrate on top

can you explain why morde has a higher winrate on mid? as long as we don't have that information winrates mean nothing. if morde wasn't viable he would not have a 52% winrate on mid.... if morde was op he would not have a 47.19% winrate on top. i think we can say for sure these stats don't state viability of champions.

conclusion, they don't take in account important factors, these stats are complete nonsense. all this tells you is that zed is popular and morde is not. high winrate doesn't mean op..... low winrate doesn't mean ''not viable''

in the end its a ''TEAM'' game so you win OR lose with the team not solo, this is why solo champion analysis is flawed, you don't know what happened in these games.

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vB2zHqyM,comment-id=000d000400000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T08:23:09.288+0000)

winrates are calculated by X amount of players winning X amount of matches compared to Y amount of lose. any % of that lose/winrate could've been due to team comp, or their allies taking objectives, this game is a team game, maybe opponents keep getting trolls/afkers/dcers you just don't know and these factors aren't calculated in, just win or lose. another major factor is amount of players, if many players play and screw up/troll, of course winrates will be lower as well.

This is true for all champs in the game, though. More or less, Kha players are just as likely to win because of enemies trolling than losing because of teammates trolling

lets take zed and morde : both on mid zed is popular and morde is not.

with zed based on 546660 games mid with morde based on 1545 games mid and with morde based on 4493 games top

zed has 50.90% winrate on mid morde has 52.36% winrate on mid morde has 47.19% winrate on top

can you explain why morde has a higher winrate on mid? as long as we don't have that information winrates mean nothing. if morde wasn't viable he would not have a 52% winrate on mid.... if morde was op he would not have a 47.19% winrate on top. i think we can say for sure these stats don't state viability of champions.

If you got your data from champion.gg, I'm not sure that data is completely accurate. Morde mid has just about a 50% winrate in gold+ in all regions while Zed's winrate is at 51.5%. Morde isn't even that weak right now; I wouldn't call him unviable.

conclusion, they don't take in account important factors, these stats are complete nonsense. all this tells you is that zed is popular and morde is not. high winrate doesn't mean op..... low winrate doesn't mean ''not viable'' I guarantee you that there's a huge difference in power between the lowest winrates and the highest. If I play Warwick and you play Gragas I already have a huge advantage on you.

in the end its a ''TEAM'' game so you win OR lose with the team not solo, this is why solo champion analysis is flawed, you don't know what happened in these games.

What? Just because it's a team game doesn't mean you don't influence the game as an individual. If the sample size is large enough, all the randomness is negligible. It's not just some crazy coincidence that Kalista wins 44% of the games she's in; she's just really weak right now.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This is true for all champs in the game, though. More or less, Kha players are just as likely to win because of enemies trolling than losing because of teammates trolling

which is a factor that cannot be controlled, this is why win/lose rates are flawed and this is why PBE exists too bad its not used properly :/

If you got your data from champion.gg, I'm not sure that data is completely accurate. Morde mid has just about a 50% winrate in gold+ in all regions while Zed's winrate is at 51.5%. Morde isn't even that weak right now; I wouldn't call him unviable. I guarantee you that there's a huge difference in power between the lowest winrates and the highest. If I play Warwick and you play Gragas I already have a huge advantage on you.

no third party data is accurate which is why i never use it, just on this occasion as an example. best is to go off experience, by your own and others though and the post game graph.

What? Just because it's a team game doesn't mean you don't influence the game as an individual. If the sample size is large enough, all the randomness is negligible. It's not just some crazy coincidence that Kalista wins 44% of the games she's in; she's just really weak right now.

nope, the truth is who does what and how much is contributed by whom is unkown, third party sites do not have access to that inportant data. no, kalista is just harder to use than other adc at the moment and simply she never really was popular, so the data is probably from players trying her out and dumping her again. there are just too many factors to take in, that its hard to look at individual, and kdr doesn't mean much either, since its an average, everyone has bad and good days, but kdr could also be affected by outplay or trolling :/

which is why i tend to stay away from third party sites O.O

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vB2zHqyM,comment-id=000d00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-12T19:44:03.992+0000)

which is a factor that cannot be controlled, this is why win/lose rates are flawed and this is why PBE exists too bad its not used properly :/

If the sample size is large enough, the random wins and losses become negligible.

no third party data is accurate which is why i never use it, just on this occasion as an example. best is to go off experience, by your own and others though and the post game graph.

There are sites that take data right from Riot's database, like league of graphs. I don't know how champion.gg works, but it seems to be inaccurate.

nope, the truth is who does what and how much is contributed by whom is unknown, third party sites do not have access to that important data.

Certain sites do have the ability to analyze millions of games, because the information is publicly available anyway.

no, kalista is just harder to use than other adc at the moment and simply she never really was popular, so the data is probably from players trying her out and dumping her again.

If a champion's skillcap was inversely propotional to it's winrate then Sol;s wr would be below 45%.

there are just too many factors to take in, that its hard to look at individual, and kdr doesn't mean much either, since its an average, everyone has bad and good days, but kdr could also be affected by outplay or trolling :/

which is why i tend to stay away from third party sites O.O

These factors become less and less relevant the bigger the sample size. If you look at 500k games and a champion has a 55% winrate in those games, it's fair to say that that champ is above average in strength.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If the sample size is large enough, the random wins and losses become negligible.

no it doesn't...... if over 50% is ruined by trolls/afkers its definitely important.

There are sites that take data right from Riot's database, like league of graphs. I don't know how champion.gg works, but it seems to be inaccurate.

lol they only get what riot wants them to get, just because they have data, doesn't mean its usefull in any way.... or that they calculated it properly.

Certain sites do have the ability to analyze millions of games, because the information is publicly available anyway.

the IMPORTANT data is not public ._.

If a champion's skillcap was inversely propotional to it's winrate then Sol;s wr would be below 45%.

too many factors to say anything for sure, what could affect the winrate for one alot does not have to affect it as much for the other.....

These factors become less and less relevant the bigger the sample size. If you look at 500k games and a champion has a 55% winrate in those games, it's fair to say that that champ is above average in strength.

ofcourse they don't become less relevant, no matter HOW BIG the sample tese factors don't change you dip O.O no its not fair to say at all..... it doesn't make sense [zombie-brand-facepalm]

lets say brand 500K games 55% winrate lets say kalista 10 games 80% winrate

what does that say? oh wait NOTHING [zombie-brand-clap]

in case you haden't noticed a match has 10 players.... they ALL affect the game.... so there is no real way to calculate viability/functionality properly on 1 champion.... UNLESS you watch every single game and analyze every single player individually, NO ONE IS GOING TO DO THAT, but only than can you talk about winrates/viability/functionality inividually.

Toothierosprey3Apr 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vB2zHqyM,comment-id=000d0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T06:26:06.756+0000)

no it doesn't...... if over 50% is ruined by trolls/afkers its definitely important.

Lol... What are you even trying to say? There are just as many games won by trolls as there are lost by trolls. Every time a troll loses a game for 5 people, the troll also wins a game for 5 people.

lol they only get what riot wants them to get, just because they have data, doesn't mean its usefull in any way.... or that they calculated it properly.

What do you mean?? All the data is public..

the IMPORTANT data is not public ._.

What's the important data?

too many factors to say anything for sure, what could affect the winrate for one alot does not have to affect it as much for the other..... Did you even read what you wrote? What are you even trying to say here? Of course there are a lot of factors that affect winrate. They're related to champion strength in the meta!

ofcourse they don't become less relevant, no matter HOW BIG the sample tese factors don't change you dip O.O Like you're actually crazy.. no its not fair to say at all..... it doesn't make sense [zombie-brand-facepalm]

lets say brand 500K games 55% winrate lets say kalista 10 games 80% winrate

what does that say? oh wait NOTHING [zombie-brand-clap]

in case you haden't noticed a match has 10 players.... they ALL affect the game.... so there is no real way to calculate viability/functionality properly on 1 champion.... UNLESS you watch every single game and analyze every single player individually, NO ONE IS GOING TO DO THAT, but only than can you talk about winrates/viability/functionality inividually. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just gonna try to spell it out for you. If a champion is strong, they will have a greater chance of winning the game. The stronger they are, the larger the chance that they will win. Sure, they might have a troll or a challenger smurf on their team, but that's a rare occurence, and given a large enough sample size, these outlier cases become less and less significant. If a champion is strong enough to affect the game enough that, on average, they win 5% more games, that champion is strong. If a champion only affects the average winrate by <1%, that champion is at an average power level.

Devilreaper XIIIApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Lol... What are you even trying to say? There are just as many games won by trolls as there are lost by trolls. Every time a troll loses a game for 5 people, the troll also wins a game for 5 people.

thats unfair win/lose that is taken in how is that not a impact?

What do you mean?? All the data is public..

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/dev-blog-riot-api riot decides what they release.

What's the important data?

objectives taken (jungle camps/towers/drakes/baron/scuttlers/rift harold)
win/lose by nexus destruction or Forfeit
afks/trollings/dcs, since its private information
most team composition used with said champ
average mmr comparison (not total) but per team per person
total average wards with said champion
win or lose by counter pick average (not just counters stated)

Did you even read what you wrote? What are you even trying to say here? Of course there are a lot of factors that affect winrate. They're related to champion strength in the meta! Like you're actually crazy.. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just gonna try to spell it out for you. If a champion is strong, they will have a greater chance of winning the game. The stronger they are, the larger the chance that they will win. Sure, they might have a troll or a challenger smurf on their team, but that's a rare occurence, and given a large enough sample size, these outlier cases become less and less significant. If a champion is strong enough to affect the game enough that, on average, they win 5% more games, that champion is strong. If a champion only affects the average winrate by <1%, that champion is at an average power level.

lol i'm crazy? you still don't realize its a team game [zombie-brand-mindblown] these stats are team based not individual based stats, meaning its not 1vs5 but 5vs5. so solo analysis is flawed..... as long as they don't actually watch all these games and base their analysis on that, the data is flawed.

Toothierosprey3Apr 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vB2zHqyM,comment-id=000d000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T16:11:05.468+0000)

thats unfair win/lose that is taken in how is that not a impact? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, but there are just as many unfair games lost by randomness as there are won by randomness.

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/dev-blog-riot-api riot decides what they release. Go to na.op.gg. Look up any profile. Literally everything related to relevant information is available.

objectives taken (jungle camps/towers/drakes/baron/scuttlers/rift harold) Obviously stronger champions are going to be getting more objectives, that's already implied.

win/lose by nexus destruction or Forfeit This is irrelevant. Again, just as many teams win by forfeit as teams lose by forfeit

afks/trollings/dcs, since its private information Same as 2. Trolls/afks/dcs aren't accounted for because they don't affect winrate if you have a large sample size.

most team composition used with said champ Synergies and counterpicks work both ways.

average mmr comparison (not total) but per team per person Average mmr is just about equal, so this is also irrelevant

total average wards with said champion This isn't necessarily related to champion strength.

win or lose by counter pick average (not just counters stated) None of these points prove anything because they're all directly related to winrate anyway. If a champ takes more objectives, or destroys the nexus more often, or fits into more team comps, they will have a higher winrate. You don't need to analyze every single part of a game to determine how strong a champion is.

lol i'm crazy? you still don't realize its a team game [zombie-brand-mindblown] these stats are team based not individual based stats, meaning its not 1vs5 but 5vs5. so solo analysis is flawed..... as long as they don't actually watch all these games and base their analysis on that, the data is flawed. Can you please explain to me your logic? I understand each game is a 5v5. Even so, every individual player has an impact on the game. If you win 55% of 10,000 games, it's fair to say that you have a positive impact on your team. Sure, some games may have trolls, or you may have been counterpicked that one time, but we're not looking at individual games. Winrate is an average, which is why it can show a champion's average strength.

Jeanne fan clubApr 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Ironically, Wukong saw about 3.5x the win rate increase that Kha'Zix saw. I guess Wukong was 3.5x seriously overbuffed.

At least you can see wukong, I disagree with op in that the number buffs were too significant, but the perma-no counterplay invis that kha has is the most frustrating game mechanic to ever grace this game. I am fine with the number buffs, I am not fine with non-telegraphed perma invis.

AirKingNeoApr 11, 20184 votes

Except kha'zix was already very overpowered before the buffs. Also please note PLAYRATE AND BANRATE.

1.4% on Wukong is completely incomparable to 13.85% on Kha'zix. Also, note Kha'zix's 48.34% banrate. https://www.op.gg/champion/statistics

Wait I'm talking to a rioter who should be aware of such statistics...

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20182 votes

Play rate and ban rate aren't true indicators of champion strength. If they were, you would expect Thresh and Fiora to be some of the strongest champs, while they definitely aren't.

HibekiApr 12, 20181 votes

Yes they are, if they aren't super strong they would not be played a huge amount of the time and people would tolerate playing against them more (hence the non ban)

Also thresh is broken as f and fiora is pretty much instant win top

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

Thresh has a 47% winrate and Fiora is at 49%. Doesn't really seem like instant win, but idk.. It's true that people like playing strong champs more than weak ones, but for the most part the biggest factor is how fun the champ is. There's a reason Aurelion Sol has a <2% pickrate while Yasuo is around 18%. Also, Yas has a 45% banrate vs Sol's .6%. Sol is definitely stronger than Yasuo right now, but Yasuo is fun to play and obnoxious to play against, so he's picked and banned a lot more.

HibekiApr 12, 20181 votes

all of CT champs have extremely high pickrate. Its because they are all broken.

Toothierosprey3Apr 12, 20181 votes

What do you define as broken then? Are broken champs just the ones who are annoying to play against? You can't just say a champ is an outlier when the statistics prove otherwise.

AirKingNeoApr 13, 20181 votes

Fiora and Thresh are strong, and they don't have high banrates.

Toothierosprey3Apr 13, 20181 votes

It's not even subjective. Thresh has >47% winrate. Fiora is near 49%. That's not strong at all. If they were strong champs, you would expect them to win more than half the games that they're in, instead of negatively impacting their team. 14.5% is a very high banrate btw. Your comment still supports my point that ban rate and champion strength aren't definitively linked.

AirKingNeoApr 13, 20181 votes

Fiora is near 49%. That's not strong at all. If they were strong champs, you would expect them to win more than half the games that they're in, instead of negatively impacting their team.

Lol ignoring pick rate Lol ignoring pick rate Lol ignoring pick rate Lol ignoring pick rate

Toothierosprey3Apr 14, 20181 votes

How is pickrate relevant? As long as the sample size is large enough, pickrate doesn't matter. The strongest champions aren't always the ones with the highest pickrate.

AirKingNeoApr 14, 20181 votes

>"Throwing statistics because I don't agree with them"

Meanwhile, it's a proven correlation that higher pickrates cause reduced winrates. Fiora has a VERY high pickrate.

Toothierosprey3Apr 16, 20181 votes

Correlation =/= causation. More players doesn't necessarily mean a larger proportion of newer players (which causes the lowered winrate). Sometimes, a champion has a large playerbase of mains, just like Lee did last season, meaning they have about the same proportion of new players to experienced ones as average champions.

Bob the ToastrApr 10, 201814 votes

I agree that they definitely overbuffed Kha'Zix. However, I would rather them take more damage off of his passive than revert the Q buff. I enjoy his identity as the "I have to find a lone target" champ that is almost useless in teamfights. It makes it exciting to try to find an opening to get a target alone rather than just bursting someone sitting in the middle of their team.

HibekiApr 10, 20185 votes

Yeah but the isolation range is so small it provides way too big of a reward. an extra 130% bonus ad on a spammable spell is WAY too big of a reward

Bob the ToastrApr 11, 20186 votes

I feel the isolation range is fair considering that minions and turrets also disable the isolation, so it's more difficult to dive.

HibekiApr 11, 201810 votes

Are you kidding? 425 is not adequate range to be considered 'isolated' when a mini gnar or a graves is close enough to auto something how are you 'isolated' from them? That retardedly large of a reward is hilariously easy to proc.

Skeletons GraveApr 11, 20183 votes

By having such insane isolated damage, it makes his early game very overbearing and basically free because he cant be invaded. Anytime he and the enemy jungler meet its gonna be isolated. That means the enemy jungler cant win the fight. Due to khazix kit, its gonna be really hard to disengage from him and even if u do then u lost ur jungle. This also means you wont be invaded by the enemy jungler because if they do and u find them then you get a nice 300g jungle camp. Sure his team fighting has issues but his early game is absurd.

0 HogapuApr 11, 20189 votes

The thing that bothers me the most about Kha'Zix is his R evo. He can legit pop at the middle of the lane invisible, and there is NO counterplay at all to that. Even control wards don't give vision on him, and even warding deep doesn't matter, cause he's 100% invisible with mobi boots and R evolve. If only he wasn't so easy to be fed with, he wouldn't be an issue.

ForFoxSakesApr 11, 20185 votes

I mostly spam meta junglers each season and Khazix has had some monstrous results. The main power I find with him isnt damage. Lots of champs have damage - I abused XinZhao Graves Ezreal jungle who would duel and kill anyone at level 2-3 when they were strong but Khazix doesn't have that same level of power. Khazix just has insane map control

Can scout out an entire enemy jungle quadrant while invis and undetectable while stealthed w mobis. Can choose to engage if you can kill them or just walk out if you're weaker
Can clear an entire jungle quadrant with Duskblade 1 shotting wards now, while gaining vision with zombie wards
Enemies are scared to move out even in their own warded jungle.
Can face check dragon/baron pit after walking through the river bush
Super easy to make picks when someone clears a lane then goes to group when you can snag them from invis
Heavily encourages invading which makes the rarely seen 500g snowballs harder by getting a free 600g boost from poachers to dirk on top of denying enemy camps. Can safely invade and check to see if the enemy camps are up with invis too and each camp essentially gives you a bonus 150g = getting a super quick to snowball even harder while going on your natural build path. 2300g duskblade such a great deal. There's many games where I have by 17 minutes

The 1 shot of wards with duskblade proc was a unique idea, but it's sooooo damn strong on someone zooming around at 465 move speed

Yara0Apr 11, 20184 votes

We added item 3147 to the game and it gave to much free damage So were nerfing it.... but were also gonna buff everyone that bought it so they keep the free damage they got from it.... (game has no damage creep BTW)