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I don't think the boards really grasp how ADCs should be nerfed

AirKingNeo··41 votes·2,620 views

I'm a top lane main with the secondary roles of jungle and AD carry. Most of the boards, at least as I see, are not ADC players at all. I think, as someone who plays ADC, that ADCs are overpowered, but I don't think the boards have any clue on how to nerf them and why they're overpowered (in a specific way).

Why ADCs are overpowered is simple. Riot decided to powercreep ADCs by buffingg Essence Reaver and Infinity Edge by 5 AD twice and then reduce their costs by 200, and Riot also decided to powercreep the support role because the role wasn't popular. I'll admit it might have worked; I've been getting autofilled less and less and less to the point where I just dodge if I get support because I haven't played the role in months. However, it's obvious this experiment has caught up to Riot with Relic Shield on ADCs and Spelltheifs and Coin used in top and mid, sometimes jungle.

How to nerf ADCs? No one seems to understand. First, they think only ADCs are the problem and then come up with terrible solutions that only make more issues. I know most of you want to murder the role entirely, but sadly that's not rational nor is that fun for most players. I know certain items are too cheap, but we don't need to go back to pick Lethality ADCs only and IE rush being near troll tier.

  • Nerf Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver by 10 AD. That's it. No high costs to make the role unfun to play; no high AD to make the role broken late game and unfun for everyone else.

  • Last Whisper changed to 1500 Gold, 30 AD, and build out of Pickaxe. Lord Dominik's Regards and Mortal Reminder increased to 3000 gold. LDR changed to 40% or 45% bonus armor pen, and passive lowered to give maximum 10% bonus damage (health scaling unchanged, 1% bonus damage per 200 of health difference). Basically, the same against tanks and less against HP stackers who don't get as much armor (bruisers).

  • BF Sword reduced to 35 AD and 1150 cost. Makes bot lane snowball less early game.

  • Stattik Shiv passive damage lowered by 5-20 damage. Stattik Shiv and RFC no longer can co-exist.

  • Bot Lane turret re-gains Fortification, but it takes 75% reduced damage (from 50% that other turrets have). All Fortification effects on turrets increased to 7 minutes from 5. This reduces bot lane snowballs and snowballing overall.

  • Lifesteal reduced to 4/5ths or 3/4ths for ranged champions. Doran's Blade lifesteal changed to heal 2 health onhit. If supports are powercreeped, then ADCs must sustain less to compensate for how much better a support can protect them. Doran's Blade changes just so poke doesn't run bot lane with all the nerfs to Crit builds.

  • Specific champion nerfs:

  • AD Carries: Kalista KogMaw Tristana Vayne Xayah

  • Supports: Alistar Braum Janna Leona Lulu Rakan

Nerf Klepto and Comet to save Ezreal and MF, and you've most likely fixed a majority of issues with bot lane with all of this. Fix tanks, runes for bruisers, this, and pretty much 80% of the game, if not more, will be fixed.

110 Comments

Cowseed25 votes

Nerf Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver by 10 AD. That's it. No high costs to make the role unfun to play; no high AD to make the role broken late game and unfun for everyone else.

I disagree. One can give unlimited mana, the other can triple auto damage. Revert the cost.

BF Sword reduced to 35 AD and 1150 cost. Makes bot lane snowball less early game.

I disagree. Could potentially be counter intuitive. You're now making the highest damage component for their highest damage/utility items able to be purchased quicker. To me that translate to the ability to start farming better and building for other items faster.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Infinity Edge doesn't triple auto damage and reverting the cost just makes ADC unfun to play pre 20 minutes and unfun to play against post 20. You'll literally see posts on the board against saying ADCs dictate the late game again.

5 AD is worth 175 gold. If BF loses 5 AD and 150 cost, it loses 25 gold value (thus less efficient). It does reduce bot lane snowballing because you no longer have the BF ADC vs the Longsword ADC once you get a kill, where it's very hard for the Longsword ADC to even come back at all. The combined cost is still the same for IE, BT, and ER, so you aren't getting items quicker.

Cowseed3 votes

Well it seems I was incorrect. You still deal 2.5x your regular auto damage. Combine that with high attack speed and we have the overly bursty class we have today.

You can not suggest every other class suffer so that one class has a better experience. It's a late game class so those post saying adcs dictate the late game are redundant. I don't know if your aware you're saying this but your saying that ADCs, a late game class, would be better if instead dealing damage in the late game, started dealing damage as early as they do now. I believe you are somewhat biased here. Because you don't want adc's power to shift to the late game where it belongs.

...you no longer have the BF ADC vs the Longsword ADC once you get a kill

This is the opposite of what you're writing. You get bf earlier, what I was saying as it's now cheaper, so it might not even be BF vs long sword now. It could more easily be bf vs nothing because you can now buy bf one wave earlier. Couple that with the inability of persons in low elo's inability to farm and you could end up with a situation where it is now more snowball. And it wasn't only infinity edge that had it's cost removed. Zeal was also cheapened. So that BF cash they now save could translate to a faster zeal which translate to more as which means more damage anyway you slice it.

AirKingNeo2 votes

How is nerfing IE by 10 AD making every other class suffer?

No, it would mean the opponent could come back easier because BF would have less AD advantage over them and less cost so they could buy themselves.

The game isn't balanced around low elo, so why should I care if bronze can't CS?

50ShadesOfBlacks2 votes

its not even that its just the item isnt practical to buy first back if your losing....... simply because you dont have the gold to afford the 1300 usually back with 1100 or 1200 debating if you should sell dorans blade or wait or build weird meanwhile the other ad got what they wanted..... its not just a 10 ad gap it turns into 40

Cowseed1 votes

How is nerfing IE by 10 AD making every other class suffer?

Please don't strawman me. That is not what I'm referring to. According to you having ADCs power be shifted to late game makes them 'feel bad'.

...the cost just makes ADC unfun to play pre 20 minutes and unfun to play against post 20

No one really cares if an ADC deals massive damage late game because that's how the class is designed. Why it makes us suffer is that you're trying to suggest a hyper carry based class have their power pushed to earlier in the game which is a problematic idea as, being hyper carries, their damage is unrivalled and oppressive. This just makes a situation where they get this unrivalled damage earlier but as they are a late game class they carry that importance and weight for too long through the game, which turns it into league of adcs.

The game isn't balanced around low elo, so why should I care if bronze can't CS?

Because autofill, snowballing and the fact that 60% of the player base is silver or lower. Also, zoning exists.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I'm not strawmanning you. You said, "You can not suggest every other class suffer so that one class has a better experience." My response is nerfing IE by 10 AD would not make every other class suffer.

Yes, having a class be only strong late game is not fun. You don't play the class; I do. I have first-hand experience.

No one? I guess you never paid attention to the boards complaining about late game ADC damage. Not sure how it is a bad thing to make hypercarries spike earlier at the cost of them not being stronger later?

That's not an argument. High elo can play 4 out of 5 roles when outfilled. Snowballing has nothing to do with Bronze. Why should the game be less competitive because 60% of players are silver?

Cowseed1 votes

Reducing the AD of the items is not going to make them suffer more but it's not going to make them suffer any less. They may deal slightly less damage but they still have damage augmentations, the Press the attack keystone, and can still crit for 300 up to and beyond 1000 per auto.

No one? I guess you never paid attention to the boards complaining about late game ADC damage. Not sure how it is a bad thing to make hypercarries spike earlier at the cost of them not being stronger later?

I recall no such trend on the boards and I've been lurking around here for about 2 seasons. They never complain about them doing tremendous damage late, the only complained about then doing massive damage period.

That's not an argument. High elo can play 4 out of 5 roles when outfilled. Snowballing has nothing to do with Bronze. Why should the game be less competitive because 60% of players are silver?

Fair enough. But if you say that why should the game be so heavily reliant on your class. Why should your class have extremely reliable and massive damage and have it early to boot? Your saying that the game shouldn't be balance around the majority of the player base because that makes it less competitive. So then why is it okay to make 8/10 persons less useful or more reliant on their adc not being lacking in skill? Because when you but a hyper carries damage earlier that increases the snowball because they can now get that damage, well, earlier. This isn't a bronze, silver or even gold point I'm making here. The earlier in a game your power is shifted to is the easier it will be to snowball.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Press the Attack gives less damage than Fervor. No ADC right now deals 1000 per crit.

But if you say that why should the game be so heavily reliant on your class.

I'm nerfing ADC so the game isn't heavily reliant on them. Did you miss that?

50ShadesOfBlacks2 votes

ur a idiot....... to understand this post you have to understand that adcs who are losing (i have had this happen allot when im losing lane) u are 100-200 gold off of the item and the other ad can buy theres making u build weird or u simply come to lane with nothing.

Sujiren24 votes

item 3087 , needs to be removed or gutted. Like I said many times dps class does not need to also do aoe burst, while also getting insane waveclear abilities on champions that should struggle in that department. You seė people whining aboutitem 3147 , but item 3087 is basically item 3147 +item 3077 , in one item for adcs for merė 2600 gold.

Kaìju2 votes

AD main here, he's right, Statikk is overloaded in that it provides AOE mixed damage wave clear for a mostly (excluding Runaans) single target AD DPS class.

Spârky2 votes

Another ad main here I don't think that the shiv/rfc thing is as much of a deal as people think it is. I personally think that what they need to do is make it so it cant crit as much (maybe make it have a flat dmg amount but increase damage by ~20% if you crit) then i think it will be fine. Statikk isnt a problem by itself it only gets good with ie and rfc so thats why i dont think as a singular item it and rfc are a problem

Kaìju2 votes

The thing is, nobody buys Cannon by itself. But people do buy Shiv by itself. Out if all the zeal items, RFC is the weakest with just IE. That indicates that it could probably use some kind of change. On the other end, even people who get Runaans get Shiv despite already having an AOE and wave clear item.

Spârky2 votes

But is that shiv being op or the other items not being that good. Think about it until riot nerfed runaans shiv was the secondary choice. Then riot nerfed runaans and made shiv and rfc work together. While i really like the shiv/rfc interaction it rewards good kiting. Like i said above I think shiv should do a flat amount and if you crit it should only do ~ 20% increased damage ( I don't know if that would be too little or not) the hidden strength of shiv is that it does give mixed damage and mr is naturally less available which is why i think the damamge should be much weaker earlier and have a flat amount. Side note rfc is the worst for ie is not always the case. Like jhin for example likes ie and rfc with his ghostblade/duskblade. I just think shiv helps more adc's than rfc. I'm all for shiv nerfs i even proposed one I just don't want riot to overdo it and gut the item/ make shiv and rfc not work together.

Krytoric10 votes

{quoted}

item 3087 , needs to be removed or gutted. Like I said many times dps class does not need to also do aoe burst, while also getting insane waveclear abilities on champions that should struggle in that department. You seė people whining aboutitem 3147 , but item 3087 is basically item 3147 +item 3077 , in one item for adcs for merė 2600 gold.

shiv "bursts" if you have IE and rapidfire cannon, shiv on its own sucks ass

YumaS2Astral7 votes

{quoted}

shiv "bursts" if you have IE and rapidfire cannon, shiv on its own sucks ass

It only needs Infinity Edge. Rapidfire Cannon's damage does not stack with Shiv. It makes you burst from a higher distance and more often, but not harder.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Shiv should have its damage reduced but be given increased damage to minions, this defines Runaans as the aoe teamfight item, RFC as the single target burst item, and Shiv as the waveclear item.

Spârky2 votes

I actually like this idea a lot but how about making it so shiv only increases damage by 50% when you crit that isnt affected by ie at all. If we reduce damage too much it becomes a very situational item (ie people will just substitute runaans for shiv and still have ok waveclear)

BestJhinUniverse14 votes

Deletion of the class would be the best solution. -previous adc main.

Pika Fox3 votes

It would be impossible to remove ADCs. Even if you did, any ranged champion with any escapes would run the same thing, be protected by high utility supports that need little gold, and funnel all the gold onto them, even if they did 0 damage to champions. ADC is the most important role in the game simply because towers and barons are tanky, and it doesnt matter how many teamfights you win if you cant kill a tower quickly.

YoungFarmer13 votes
  • Bot Lane turret re-gains Fortification, but it takes 75% reduced damage (from 50% that other turrets have). All Fortification effects on turrets increased to 7 minutes from 5. This reduces bot lane snowballs and snowballing overall.

Problem with this is that bot lane would just start top lane and take top tower first. Pretty sure thats what used to happen atleast.

Best Idea in my opinion would just be to give towers a buff based on how many enemy champs are around it. Sort of like wukong passive. That way where ever bot lane went would be harder to shove due to there being more people.

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

Pretty sure thats what used to happen at least.

It was happening in the LCS. Riot acted per-emptivly to prevent it from trickling into Yolo queue.

Z3Sleeper12 votes

{quoted}

  • Bot Lane turret re-gains Fortification, but it takes 75% reduced damage (from 50% that other turrets have). All Fortification effects on turrets increased to 7 minutes from 5. This reduces bot lane snowballs and snowballing overall.

And so the lane swap meta resumes.

Tèrminus8 votes

Any particular reason you don't have Twitch under "specific nerfs"? None of the broad nerfs really address the fact that he takes IE+Hurricane and turns your team into cheese with his ult from 850 range and out of stealth. That's why I had suggesting weakening Hurricane's bolts on critical strikes, at least.

I'd argue that Kog would be fine if support power was nerfed a bit, rather than needing any nerfs himself. Unlike most ADCs, Kog's normal itemization features more big-ticket items (Rageblade, BotRK, Frozen Mallet, etc) since Hurricane is usually the only Zeal item he buys AFAIK.

Also, if you make Shiv and RFC mutually exclusive, you should probably buff RFC a bit. I'm not entirely sure the extra range and quicker charge outweighs the potential AoE magic damage burst Shiv grants with its ability to critically strike, never mind the fact that RFC grants less AS than Shiv.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Because I don't think Twitch is an issue of his kit being broken and only the items. Plus, I find the rest a lot more broken.

Tèrminus3 votes

{quoted}

Because I don't think Twitch is an issue of his kit being broken and only the items. Plus, I find the rest a lot more broken.

Twitch has a higher winrate than most of the ADCs you listed, though.

Personally, I'm still not sure why a ranged champion is allowed to have a stealth that resets on takedowns, but that's just me.

Reletr8 votes

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the reason they removed fortification on bottom lane was to prevent bot and top laners from switching for easier farm and so that if they did switch, they would risk losing first tower gold.

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

Re-posting this; appears relevant.

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqQee7Nz,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-09-13T21:11:47.653+0000)

Personally, I agree that ADC's present an issue. But they're ultimately a symptom of larger problems.

  1. range > melee. Riot doesn't do much to mitigate this at a macro level; and often band-aids melees to mitigate at a micro level.
  2. AA damage > spell damage. Again, at a macro level and in a vacuum. AA's have high scaling 1.0 AD (up to 2.5 with crit), the lowest max (and average) cooldown in the game, and are resourceless.
  3. Structures. Excluding Ziggs, there is no way to kill structures with abilities. Very few champions (and sheen) have abilities that can even affect structures.

ADC's "Marksman" benefit from all three of these core game mechanics. That's why they will always be necessary. Before we even begin looking at individual stats and kits, ADC's have macro-level advantage.

And before "that guy" posts, supports aren't a core problem. Their state (role, class, champion, and itemization) are also symptoms of their own problems. But, for the most part, their influence applies equally to every one (regardless of game state). That's why they tend to vanish when ever the meta even remotely allows it.

Athenes Lulu5 votes

Hold up, I don't think ADCs even build ER right now...

Unless I'm missing some important information.

LegitBusinessman5 votes

When you damage creep everything into oblivion that I'm eating +50% of my hp for eating a Karma R Q at level 1, relic+fleet builds from adcs are what you should expect. We literally have to compensate somehow for base resistances getting gutted in pre-season which was just beyond stupid. Everyone is complaining about symptoms and not addressing the actual sickness.

Everyone lost 9 armor and 12+ mr from old runes and the offense losses from runes were far less significant.

If you want an example, my mid main is TF. I lost 9 armor and 12+ mr. I was compensated with.... 13 max hp. Yep. 1/5th of an auto from a dorans adc.

PokladnicaZla4 votes

Just make Comet scale only off AP.It's about time mages have get a rune to themselves.

Pika Fox6 votes

Would be counter intuitive to the entire point of the runes rework.

PokladnicaZla4 votes

It just kinda feels easier to have it balanced around mages using it than all other classes. Tanks have Aftershock ADCs have literally a whol run tree designed strictly for them Meanwhile Phase Rush sucks,Aery is only good on enchanters and mages like Lux,Moragan,Ori etc.

Pika Fox3 votes

Phase Rush has seen play, and isnt really bad. ADC tree isnt "designed strictly for ADCs", anyone who can use all of the stats there can run it. Leona has seen some cheese success running press the attack.

Aery is still pretty good on champs that want to run comet if you want more consistency, as comet can miss.

Häxel3 votes

Yea, i like the idea to just simply nerf Ie/Er/Crit or/And Bf Sword. I don't think Lifesteal needs to be nerfed, more it should be maybe buffed to not just be a lategamechoice or not needed if ruens are to strong, but so that it would be a viabel option to buy lifesteal early instead of Crit. I would just simply change itempaths: item 3072 : item 1038 + item 1036 + item 1053 changed to item 1038 + item 1037 + item 1053 . item 3812 : item 1037 + item 3133 + item 1053 changed to item 1038 + item 3133 + item 1053 .

Also make them cost equal like how Ie/er cost equal. Even with the current stats the items have the itemrecipe change wouldn't change that Upgrading would loose damage, it would just not increase damage anymore, but ofcourse give the passives and better lifestealeffects. The idea behidn my suggestion is to make these 2 items similar attractive itemchoices as item 3031 /item 3508 . On all 4 you would be able to buy a bf after first Back and can still decide till your second or third back what you gonna buy first. Pickaxe would mean Ie/Bt, Caulfield Er/Dd, Cloak Ie/Er and Vampire Bt/Dd. If you have to nerf one or 2 you can nerf them either solo or their shared item (there is probably no meta where Er/Bt is op while the others are weak or otherwise. If all 4 need to be nerfed/buffed Bf can be changed. For this one additional chang ewould be needed: item 3026 : item 1038 + item 1029 + item 2419 to item 1037 + item 1029 + item 2419 . It always felt strange to have Bf on that item. Like while DD feels more as an adc item, Ga feels more as a Bruiseritem. Considering also the high Prices the Crit Bf or Lifestelitems normaly have while Ga is a 2400 Golditem and the other itemparts are also around 300/600 Gold, having Bf, the standard 1300 Gold Adc Item, on this more bruiser dedicated Item... TCould talk more about Ga but i wanted to focus here on lifesteal.

There is nearly no Champion left beside Draven who builds early Lifesteal. And Draven is currently realy weak. He, Mf, the whole Adc class could profit from these changes. And I want to say this in a positve way. To increase Diversity but also to decrease pressure from people saying they do to much damage early game. If Lifesteal gets more attractive early, sure than there could be again a problem that adcs would be harder to kill in lane or lategame. But it would definetly decrease the damage adcs gonna do in the early game. And a Draven, a Miss Fortune or any Adc to buy a Bf and having actualy 4 attractive itemchoices early would feel like a wet dream. Any adc could become far more viabel, meta would be bigger. Ps.: Just how Talon/Panth like the Longswords Draven/Mf would like the Bf Swords (also Longswords as Lethalaty is viabel on these 2 too) xd.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Noone needs draintanking adcs. We have that already and even worse during ardent meta. ADC sustain needs to go down not up.

Legacy Hydralpha3 votes

From what I understand, you want bot lane tower to have increased damage reduction overall compared to other towers? That might lead to lane swapping again, or bot lane shoving up a wave and going somewhere else for an easy tower. Maybe if fortification was 50% on all towers but while it was active it took less damage the more champions there are? Towers wouldn't die as fast from bot lane or jungler ganks.

KennysDreamGirl3 votes

the boards cant grasp any sense of logic. they only care about baby raging about stuff without actually talking about proper fixes

Lios Ashenblade5 votes

{quoted}

the boards cant grasp any sense of logic. they only care about baby raging about stuff without actually talking about proper fixes

You should google irony, then reread this comment

Thefrostyviking3 votes

OP isn't it enough to nerf either AD/Crit or lifesteal? And armor pen since price increase is a nerf.

Wouldn't nerfing all 3 just cause them to fall off?

Static shiv nerfs i do agree to though, item was made way too OP even if you need like 2 other crit items to make it shine, and last whisper item uppgrades are way too cheap for their power as well.

But lifesteal on marksmen is usually not much? If playing against a tank then most will only get 1 lifesteal item and BT tops off at 20%, which is just enough to keep oneself from taking damage from thornmail.

While the healing off targets without thornmail can indeed get much too high it's also an issue that if it's lowered then thornmail needs nerfs too, least all the AA reliant marksmen will just kill themselves by trying to hurt the enemy tanks.

Been there, it is not funny.

Doran would also needs something better than 2 HP per hit, cull already does that, and if such a nerf went through then it would just result in marksmen always getting cull first item, or dorans shield.

AD nerfs on IE and ER are probably un-needed compared to static shiv damage nerfs(big ones), zeal items cost increase ( 100-200) and armor pen cost increase, somewhere between 200-400 gold for that.

AirKingNeo1 votes

That's why they're minor nerfs. Plus ADCs aren't being seen as an issue with Lifesteal right now. It's the phase of 2-3 items where they deal so much damage it's annoying.

Remove Thornmail. That's my answer as a top lane player.

Zeal doesn't need any changes. Any ADC player will tell you Zeal doesn't feel like a spike at all, and it's clearly passives on upgraded Zeal items that are issues.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Ah x)

Forgot that everyone doesn't now, the words "zeal items" is basically a slang for the items you get by,.,...well "upgrading" zeal into any of the 4 items that you do-''

And while the passive's are powerful a issue is how quickly you can access them, delaying that would make them less impactful,,,,,and nerfing or changing static shiv would prevent the somewhat RNG but way too strong burst that does indeed happen sometimes.

Eating a crit already hurts, eating a crit with a empowered 300-400 damage on it is terrible.

And if thornmail is removed then reducing lifesteal is no problem, but wouldn't that cause Irelia, fiora and even possibly Aatrox to go outa control? Riot doesn't seem to have a way to make their sustain styles work in teamfights or 1v1's without making them impossible in lane.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Irelia and Aatrox weren't relevant before Thornmail was triple buffed. Who gives a shit about Fiora? Why should the world bend to Fiora?

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Irelia was relevant in soloq, was hailed as the most obnoxious stat checker in the toplane x)

Aatrox got a lot of changes and buffs right.....either after or before? Bramble vest became a thing, but he is very damn strong when you don't actually get it against him, deals really good damage and works well as as splitpusher.

-----It's just that he doesn't work so well if you do get it.

And by going outa control i mean they might become insanely OP, if bramble get's nerfed won't fiora need to be showered in nerfs to prevent her becoming the nr 1 toplane once again?

AirKingNeo1 votes

You mean in season 6 before they gutted her passive?

Aatrox wasn't relevant before Bramble and tiny base stat buffs since then won't help, especially after all the item nerfs.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Usually Irelia wouldn't teamfight anyway so i personally didn't feel much of an impact of that change anyway when i played her, i still enjoyed a lot of success....mainly in normals though, but still matched with plati/diamonds thanks to my good winrates at the time.

Easy champion to win with for below diamond once you get the hang of her.....well that was the case until meta shifted and bramble came along, more tanks and the item certainly made things a lot more difficult.

My preferred playstyle on her is pretty much the same as when playing kayle of jax, cheese a kill early if at all possible then just zerg rush toplane until it collapses and force enemy team to respond.

If unable to push fast enough before enemy team responds, rotate to any other lane that might have any outer towers left and keep going.

While i didn't really play Irelia in ranked last season i did play kayle, won 7 outa 7 games with the same mindset.

And Aatrox was never relevant overall that´s true, but honestly from what i´ve seen he is similar to Nasus in a sense right now, if you don't hard counter him he is really, really strong.

Very few can beat him 1v1, even saw a Fiora get run over despite her being slightly ahead.

If the meta were to shift into a more splitpush oriented one along with bramble being removed then we might just see Aatrox rise upwards quite fast.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

while i generally agree with the overall logic and goals of your changes, i don't agree with the last one. Supports help the entire team, not just the ADC. Supports being strong isn't a reason by itself to nerf adc, and using that as a justification is rather weak as a result.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Supports do not help the entire team. Supports are very much for protecting ADCs so they can output their reliable DPS.

Hence why supports being buffed have made ADCs even better.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

Supports do not help the entire team. Supports are very much for protecting ADCs so they can output their reliable DPS.

Hence why supports being buffed have made ADCs even better.

I take it you don't actually play support then?

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