Hey Junglers, let me explain to you why top laners are always so toxic (explaining; not excusing it)

HateDaddy··107 votes·22,639 views

It’s because top lane is basically won or lost in champ select. If I have to first pick top, I am at a huge disadvantage. There are very few champions you can pick top that don’t have any bad match-ups: Aatrox and Irelia basically turn everything into a skill-match up, Tahm and Morde are OP and have numbers that need to be toned down and any ranged top is pretty much safe and free to scale. Most top laners do not play a collection of these champions, at best one or two.

So what does that mean? As I stated, if you don’t pick one of these as first pick top then you basically lose at champ select. Top is a long lane, it’s easy to gank and it’s incredibly punishing to those champions in a disadvantaged match up: one mistake even with wave management can turn into a 30cs deficit. We have no control over this, it’s just the nature of the lane. It has pretty much always been like this (wasn’t always this oppressive but the overall theme remained true). It likely won’t change. We can argue about whether it should or shouldn’t be this way all we want, but the fact is that it is what it is.

So what does this have to do with junglers? Well to be totally honest, you are literally the only thing that can save us in bad match-ups. Seriously, in many of these match-ups if we don’t get help, we ARE GOING to feed. We don’t want to but that’s the nature of these match-ups. Do you think hugging that tower will save us? Lmao hell no. And honestly, we have to get experience. Farm would be lovely but many of us have learned that you’ll probably be stripped of that access, so at the least just be in range to get exp. But the problem is you can only really do that under tower. You can’t do it past the center of the lane, and if I’m in a bad match up pushed under tower, I am GOING to be dove - likely by their top and jungler.

Where do you come into this equation? Honestly it’s simple: just be there. I do not expect you to win my lane for me (that would be nice though). I understand you likely realize it’s a bad match-up and if we get caught in a 2v2, we may not win. I understand you might want to focus on more feasible lanes to gank. I totally get that and honestly, I support it: I don’t want to give top a double kill either. And if for whatever reason you and the jungler vertical jungle for the first clear, I’ll play safe and try to not get ganked. But here’s the thing: I need you to be here at times.

You don’t need to even gank necessarily. Just show pressure. Show the top laner you won’t let him 100% dictate the lane. Even if you can blow his flash that is huge. If he’s freezing against me, and i ask you to come top, I am basically asking you to help me break the freeze. I realize the situation probably isn’t gankable. If I’m getting dove and you’re in the area, just respond. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been dove while my jungler is literally right there doing frog or krugs. I know, you’re going to tell me about how I don’t protect you in an early invade: that’s because I usually CANT. If I don’t have lane pressure and I’m at a disadvantage early, I literally can not afford to miss those minions. Missing that exp alone could put me at such a huge deficit, I would lose the lane off of that. And I’ve already explained what top is like. If you’re karthus vs a lee sin, you should probably be trying to start top side anyway so you can get bot/mid lane protection because they can afford to roam and miss some exp the way top laners cannot afford. So it’s not the same thing, because you give up farming that you can come right back to in order to save an ally being dove and probably turning the dice to your favor. So it’s win-win.

Listen, I realize top laners are not perfect. But our lane depends so much on jungle pressure: you have no idea. It’s especially frustrating when their jungler pinches a tent in top lane and you don’t do anything at all. I get it if you don’t want to come top in that situation, but you HAVE to do something somewhere else because I’m literally going to feed at this point and you’ll be having a jungler and top laner on the enemy team fed. So even when we don’t get direct lane pressure from our jungler, our junglers lack of presence elsewhere still impacts us significantly.

It doesn’t excuse top laners for flaming you: that is totally unacceptable. And many of us top laners could do a much better job of asking for help clearly instead of spam pinging you in typical NA passive aggressiveness (btw that’s a great thing about LAN: they will straight up just say what they want even if they’re less skilled). And we also need to understand your circumstances better. But just understand, 90% of the time jungle influence literally decides our lane and if we are counter picked, we really don’t have a say in our lane and so we rely on you. In a sad twisted way, you are like our extended support. We wish it wasn’t like this baby-love, but it is. So help your local top laner out.

144 Comments

D357R0Y3R61 votes

big brain toplane main

HateDaddy22 votes

{quoted}

big brain toplane main

Big brains get the dames

Ragnaveil10 votes

{quoted}

Big brains get the dames

Word

The Spicy Crit3 votes

{quoted}

big brain toplane main

Big penis top lane main

Crispy0Snake2 votes

{quoted}

I am sorry, but what in the actual fuck is this? I really do try to refrain from attacking people in their professions. I'm someone in the process of honing my own profession and earning my degree. I do not take pleasure in this, because I've even run into Meddler a few times in solo queue and he's honestly the sweetest guy. [removed by moderation] This is a complete absolute abomination.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

I’m trying to understand what this has to do with anything

Hocker16 votes

And a PS from all the Nasus Mains... don't push the lane and don't take the CS. If we're in a bad match up (70% of the time), we NEED every last bit of stack and Gs to make up for it. I'll gladly let you have the kills, but gtfo once you do.

I guess part of what I'm saying is that the jungler also has to recognize when it is a champ that doesn't move AS FAST as their personal aggressive pace. If you try to gank early for a teammate who has a rough early game... its not going to work perfectly. Nasus especially, don't expect him to do anything but W if you come before 50-100 stacks... he'll be useless and then farther behind because he helped you.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

And a PS from all the Nasus Mains... don't push the lane and don't take the CS. If we're in a bad match up (70% of the time), we NEED every last bit of stack and Gs to make up for it. I'll gladly let you have the kills, but gtfo once you do.

I guess part of what I'm saying is that the jungler also has to recognize when it is a champ that doesn't move AS FAST as their personal aggressive pace. If you try to gank early for a teammate who has a rough early game... its not going to work perfectly. Nasus especially, don't expect him to do anything but W if you come before 50-100 stacks... he'll be useless and then farther behind because he helped you.

It depends. If you get a kill, chances are that your wave will start to push back against their tower. If they have TP, you want to shove this ASAP so it crashes into their tower and the wave resets. If you don’t, they can hold it and freeze it indefinitely - especially against a Nasus. And this can lead to denying you. If they don’t have TP, you can slow push it into tower, or just back but again it all depends on what the wave looks like. In general, the rule of thumb is to shove the wave into tower if the wave pattern shifts to pushing into their tower because you do NOT want them having the ability to stop the wave from crashing. So in short, I would say “it depends.”

HateDaddy11 votes

Yknow it’s amazing that all the people that come here and make attacks on me as a player or generalizations about top laners (pea-brain top laners for example). Nothing in my boat has anything to do with my playstyle, my champions or how I respond in match-ups. It’s just a general post trying to understand our mindset as top laners. It’s why I appreciate and upvoted the guy that gave me a junglers perspective. You can disagree with people without being a classless jackass you know. And people wonder why this community is so trash. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Shrek Luigi9 votes

my problem with a lot of jg-players is that they don't gank ANY lane at all for the first fifteen-or-so minutes, often on champions whose performance hinges on snowballing & lack the degree of scaling or teamfight-capability that most all laners do, like jg-assasin picks or Lee Sin or some shit. then they have the gall to blame their teammates for losing their lanes. sheesh!

you guys don't have to gank top necessarily, but you've got to ask yourselves if not interacting with anybody for such a time is truly the right course-of-action in a 5v5 match.

Voluug133 votes

The biggest issue for me is that those jungle champions are also the most popular. I have taken into banning Shaco or Yi if I dont see my jg's pick on pre-select. Shacos have, with no expections, ruined entire ranked games because they either just farm for 15m or KS like crazy but come midgame they are just a shitty assassin without escapes that has zero teamfight presence, often coming at the cost of a viable frontline (because some people still think that Leona/Braum are viable solo tanks when their gold generation is the worst of the team lmfao).

2Charmnot2Charm6 votes

I'm just going to start spamming this in post game chat after the jungler pisses the entire team off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMD6wmcwvE

Nothing more tilting than seeing your early game jungler (LeeSin for example) still 0/0/0 10 minutes into the game, while enemy jungler is having presence in lanes AND getting objectives.

I don't care if he doesn't gank my lane, just do something for the other two lanes on my team please jfc.

Jennifer4209 votes

and here i am, playing in fucking plat, my top laner is last pick, picks vayne into aatrox and goes 0/13 in under 10min.

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

and here i am, playing in fucking plat, my top laner is last pick, picks vayne into aatrox and goes 0/13 in under 10min.

That’s just vayne syndrome dude, a condition known to be deadly to your elo

preternatural7 votes

a top laner won't be upset at you if they lose on an island. a top laner will be upset with you if enemy jungler can fuck with their lane and there is no return comeuppance from their own jungler in the shape of a gank or map objective.

Yuuuuu6 votes

Get ganked Tp back Enemy jungler is waiting for you

Fun times. Big brain, alpha male top doesn't get tilted

[sg-ezreal]

Hold Ma Baguette6 votes

Still remember playing against a duo queue pantheon top with fiddle jungle, got dove 24/7 and everyone is complaining I'm inting like there's anything I can do when they both have aftershock and just 100-0 me while cc'ed under my tower. It's just the nature of the lane I've kinda grown to accept that at this point.

General Esdeath 6 votes

Whenever my jungler says they're not coming top because I'm "losing lane" (AKA 1 death and 30 cs down) I just mentally check out.

"wow that's so toxic"

No, it's not. It tells me 3 things:

  1. I'm going to be useless this game since I'm going to be very VERY behind by the end of the 20 minute laning phase, my team is now playing 4v5
  2. My jungler doesn't know what they're doing, even a hyper farming champ like Yi/Shyv benefit from ganking top. Enemy burned flash? Cool! Help me push the wave, get some EXP and gold, and apply pressure and we can POSSIBLY take Rift Herald/tower plates. The team is now playing 3v5 because my jungler doesn't understand the role of jungle.
  3. I'm gonna get bitched and moaned at because "better top wins hehe xd" despite top rarely having influence unless one of them is super fed. Why should I bother playing if I'm gonna get flamed anyway? Might as well pick up my phone and soak EXP under tower while I play AFK Arena (not a pun about being afk, I just like that game).

Junglers, losing lane isn't being 1 death up and 30 cs down, losing lane is when you're about 2,000 gold (or 1 item) behind, and even then you could salvage that lane. If your ADC is 8-0, mid is doing well, try helping the top lane. Your ADC is already fed, your mid is stable, HELP TOP LANE. This goes for any lane if the roles are swapped.

AstroFerrari 5 votes

Beautifully said. I wish I could post this in every ranked lobby when I first pick top. Take my upvote friend

Yets42404 votes

ITT salty botlaners who didn't read or understand anything (let alone game fundamentals apparently), and are trying to throw yet a-fucking-nother pity party for RIOTs favorite class that they design the rest of the game around, while simultaneously leaving on a pedestal of unchecked dominance: The ADC.

ŠρìΚσ4 votes

me playing nasus vs mordekaiser (ignite) me : kayn if you gank top do it befor his lvl 6 and be sur you are full hp or just dont come min 5 : my kayn gank kaiser while having 450HP , kaiser just E Q ignit him wth some autos and killed him , first blood wth double buffs kayn : omg nice champ , and nasus you useless noob do 0 dammage. Me : bro np i still can win vs him 1V1 if i stack 150 + wth executionner and if he dont get lvl advantage DW go camp other lanes.

min 10 in the game .

mordekaiser hard pushing , but np i still farm not badly and i'm really clse to a point where i'm going to be able to 1V1 him i had MR sheen all i needed is one back for executionner and its done.

then my kayn ( no forme ) come out nowhere while i had only engh mana to Q the last canon minion befor i back , got ulted by kaiser killed him , and since i already had only half hp and no mana he dived me to since he had my potato kayn stats wth double buffs and congratulations we just made a 1V9 mordekaiser.

Me : bro you just lost toplane and probably the game i told you no ganks after he is 6 he can easy escap it wth ult and even kill you sicne he have lvl advantage on you. kayn : repport nasus troll ; no follow on ganks.

  • Next game

min 4 : my jungler come int dying under ennemy turret i ask him why ?

my jungler : you dont ward my blue i ruin your lane to

me : bro wtf ok i did mistake not warding and covring blue , but why punishing the whole team for this .

my jungler : so you learn. i legit just inted this game and like many other next games coudn't focus anymore and ended feeding in lot of them.

this is just an exemple of how bullsht toplane is in low elo

full cancerous umbalanced champs , combined wth potato junglers can even make an angel toxic.

when you are stuck under turret playing safe waiting your scaling vs a darius for like 3432424 min but your jungler only come when he is 6 and you 5 wth no mana then cry why you both died you cant stay calm , you just want to say what you think and at this point you know you will get banned but you just dotn care , cause at this moment you hate everything about lol.

Cojak5 votes

I feel like this is true on a deeper level than just top and jg. Maybe 1 in 10 games go by without this happening from one teammate to another. Recently I had a support go off on my for not ulting as velkoz, and later did the same thing to darius. Both of us begrudgingly tried to explain why our ults need set up and just firing them off is pointless. Then the all chat "report XXX for trolling" comes and honestly I find it hard to care about the match after something like that. Its come to a point where i mute half or more of my team every game whether I do well or not.

On another note, I think jg needs another look because right now there are 6 or so jglers that can gank and farm so hard, while my jg never comes to my lane (at least while I'm there). I sympathize because when I get autofilled jg I do my best, but 2 missed ganks on the only guy I can jg with and I'm behind. IF i die I'm done for the game, I'll never catch up. Just getting flamed from teammates and that shit gets old.

ŠρìΚσ3 votes

yeh i feel you bro

but as the author said , the particularity pf toplane makes it a really supper hard lane , its the lane wth more cncerous champs. and also its a lane where if you get counter picked and the ennemy know how to freese , your team will probably need to 4V5 the game , the entier designe of toplane need a real update , look at midlane for exemple ; we can get lot of counter picks but at least you can farm . in toplane breeeh , if you are counter picked and you died early or just lsot flash to an early gank , bro GGWP its game over for you. and on top of that your jungler will instead of helping you , he will makes it harder wth stupid deaths and comments.

Cojak2 votes

I'll agree mid lane is not as severe, but there are still times where a mid mage has to go against a zed, yas, lb, or fizz and let me be the first to say that without jungle help from pre-6 you will die under tower without farm no matter what. laughably so. Arguably against even more if they are skilled. Assassins, and some top laners shit all over mid mages with the team telling me to play safe when i'm already under tower. I've run into the same problems of not being able to farm, or gain experience. Luckily at my elo not many play those champs and I can get away with mages, or the extremely rare case that I have a jg who can make it happen.

Crescent Dusk4 votes

Top lane is by far the easiest lane to snowball for a jungler.

If I jg, I will 90% of the time camp top unless I notice early my top laner is garbage and will do nothing with a lead.

Top lane snowballs because if you gain a single xp advantage or kill advantage (xp+gold), you automatically win lane because all you need is one kill to be one item ahead of your opponent and you will always level up first to threaten an all-in.

What this does is completely starve the enemy top laner of CS since in order to last hit, he needs to get in engagement range of his opponent, unlike mid or bot lane who can at the very least farm melee minions from range without heavy risk of death.

Moreover, most top laners don't have enough survival or mobility to survive a 2v1 gank.

Meanwhile mid lane is a way shorter run to the safety of a turret and it's harder to catch mages overextended, while assassins generally have better mobility than bruisers (try to gank a Zed or Katarina or Fizz with their abilities up, way harder than ganking an Illaoi or Darius).

Bot lane meanwhile has a ranged champ, of which many of the meta ADC's have self peeling tools (Sivir a spell shield, Xayah her root, Vayne her tumbles, Lucian his dashes, Ezreal his blink, Jinx her traps). And on top of that, they may have a Rakan or Pyke or Morgana or Karma to stun/root/slow your ass off the enemy ADC.

There's no easier lane to gank than top lane, period.

Thus, obviously top laners feel the impact of jungler presence/absence far more.

The thigh guy3 votes

The lane is won or lost at champ select.

Welcome to adc for the past 5 years my dude.

Ragnaveil23 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-19T17:49:19.506+0000)

The lane is won or lost at champ select.

Welcome to adc for the past 5 years my dude.

Get the ADC pity card out of here. Riot's already pitied you when we tried adding diversity that you people wanted, so they reverted the nerfs to ADCs.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

Get the ADC pity card out of here. Riot's already pitied you when we tried adding diversity that you people wanted, so they reverted the nerfs to ADCs.

Oh you mean the still overall nerf to adc?

Ragnaveil7 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T18:27:48.633+0000)

Oh you mean the still overall nerf to adc?

PFFFFT. If you are gonna call the biggest change in the fucking history of offensive stats a overall nerf, idk what else to tell you man. Single handedly, ADCs and everyone else were given a sledgehammer called % Pen change to go out and murder every last tank in jg or top of every bit of durability.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

PFFFFT. If you are gonna call the biggest change in the fucking history of offensive stats a overall nerf, idk what else to tell you man. Single handedly, ADCs and everyone else were given a sledgehammer called % Pen change to go out and murder every last tank in jg or top of every bit of durability.

I hate to inform you that that happened well before the “crit rework” and even more so before the crit revert. Which was still an overall nerf to adcs before hand with the loss of 25% damage on ie.

But w/e. Keep telling yourself it’s adcs fault tanks are unplayable garbage now, instead of the actual class that’s fucking tanks.

Ragnaveil4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T22:00:59.256+0000)

I hate to inform you that that happened well before the “crit rework” and even more so before the crit revert. Which was still an overall nerf to adcs before hand with the loss of 25% damage on ie.

But w/e. Keep telling yourself it’s adcs fault tanks are unplayable garbage now, instead of the actual class that’s fucking tanks.

The class is garbage because everyone now has keys to killing them with low effort, and ADCs got a bigger boost out of that. You lost 25% off of IE for better LWs.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

The class is garbage because everyone now has keys to killing them with low effort, and ADCs got a bigger boost out of that. You lost 25% off of IE for better LWs.

Oh? And pray tell, when does an adc get their last whisper? Not first item. Cause that has to be a crit item. Not second item, because that also has to be a crit item. Not third, because that also has to be a crit item. Arguably 4th, if they don’t need lifesteal or a ga.

You know what classes build %pen/shred almost immedietly? That’s riiiiight! Bruisers and mages. The actual reasons tanks are trash.

Ragnaveil4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T23:01:26.154+0000)

Oh? And pray tell, when does an adc get their last whisper? Not first item. Cause that has to be a crit item. Not second item, because that also has to be a crit item. Not third, because that also has to be a crit item. Arguably 4th, if they don’t need lifesteal or a ga.

You know what classes build %pen/shred almost immedietly? That’s riiiiight! Bruisers and mages. The actual reasons tanks are trash.

But it was changed with them in mind (Mages piggybacked on it cuz they decided doing the same thing to Void was a good idea).

LordGeovanni2 votes

and better base ad after level 6 and better base attack speed and better base hp. They also lost 5 base armor but that was overcomensated in hp.

Haze9710 votes

Exactly this. Even when the other roles have it bad you'll always find an ADC main crying about how bad they had it in the past.

HateDaddy30 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-19T17:49:19.506+0000)

The lane is won or lost at champ select.

Welcome to adc for the past 5 years my dude.

You get a support that can literally change the dynamic of any bad match-up you’re in. You have less autonomy over your lane because of the 2v2 nature and it’s tendency to be camped, not because you win or lose lane in champ select.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Thing is, most junglers are kinda bound in according with the respawn timers of their camps.

So there are only a few minutes here or there that they will actually be around,,......which is what most toplaners seem kinda unable to understand.

If you are either dead,recalling or pushing when i am around then i wont gank, but even if a "golden chance" presents itself toplane when i am farming jungle on botside then i also wont come, not quickly anyway.

Failing to farm properly is the worst pitfall a jungler can fall into aside from actually failing a gank and dying in the process.

Rifter343 votes

Heres a problem:

Enemy Jungler is ganking you constantly throughout the match. You are dominating in top lane and enemy jungler helps get his top laner fed. You die in the process. Meanwhile, your jungler is ganking mid lane and bot lane only and barely helping you out in top lane.

So what do you do? You begin to ping to ask for help and your jungler doesn't come or isn't interested in helping you. So what do you do at this point? Basically.. Don't even try. There is no point in trying when your jungler won't help you out and the enemy jungler is camping you at top in early and mid game before he begins to roam and gets fed and his top laner destroys your top lane. It's good game from there basically.

Word to the junglers: Stop being so fucking brain dead. Seriously.. Stop being so ignorant and selfish and only gank mid and bot lane. You aren't even trying to help your top laner who is getting destroyed because theirs is smarter than you ever will be.

Get a fucking grip.

The Sgt Pepper2 votes

I agree with many of the things you are saying.

I have been playing since season 1, and was a diamond player in season 3.

Here is my advice in the current meta:

Neither Aatrox or Irelia have a very high win rate and are only effective if they land all their abilities perfectly.

Perhaps your issue is that you are prioritizing these champions too much.

  1. Ask your team to ban Tahm Kench and Mordekaiser.
  2. Allow Irelia and Aatrox into the game.
  3. Jax does well against Irelia becaue he can dodge her Q, and matches her attack speed.
  4. Jax does well against Aatrox because he can leap over his first Q, and just win auto attack trades while dodging minion agro with e, the timing with Jax stun and Aatrox 2nd and 3rd Q is often such that Aatrox will automatically be stunned if he lands his 3rd Q in rapid succession with his 2nd, assuming you used e to reduce the AOE dmg of the 2nd Aatrox Q after you leap over his first Q.
  5. With full items, Jax beats both of these champions in 1v1, and has better dmg on baron/rift.
  6. Irelia and Aatrox are dependent upon landing their abilities to be successful. If they ever miss you automatically win the trade.
  7. Jax with Dorans Shield Rejuv bead and Grasp can sustain against either of these champions and is far superior with a full item build. Trinity force and Titanic Hydra with Dorans shield lets you survive their burst. Once their burst is over they have no chance.

If you don't want to pick Jax:

Renekton and Nasus have higher win-rate and are easier than both Aatrox or Irelia.

The Sgt Pepper3 votes

If a top laner is toxic it is because they feel like they got cheated or ripped off.

This is usually because of champions with extreme unbalance in their design.

Tahm Kench shield almost doubles his combat max health as early as level one, this stat is far more unbalanced than anything I've seen in this game.

This would make any player rage. Like if a ADC got double AD when low on health. Making it impossible to all in.

People in general don't get upset unless something is unfair or unbalanced.

It is more to do with current champion design than anything else in my opinion.

Either way, Jax beats both the skill matchups you mentioned, and Renekton is fine against anyone that doesn't have hyper scaling.

The Sgt Pepper1 votes

If you are having problems with team not helping you, pick a champion that is difficult to gank, and ban the counters.

Jax, Shen, Vlad, renekton are all difficult to gank.

The Sgt Pepper1 votes

Maybe make a checklist of who counters who and then look after pick ban to see who has had the most counters banned out and play that champion.

The Sgt Pepper5 votes

Top Laners often know the matchups they are playing better than their Jungler. Therefore a Top laner knows when he needs a gank in order to win the lane, or stop an opponent from reaching a certain power curve.

For example. If Jax reaches an item threshold that allows him to win 1v1 and sustain while pushing the lane, he becomes very difficult to beat. Jax needs to be slowed down and prevented from reaching that power curve. (A good item early ensures farm and kills which gives other good items later on ie power curve, miss the good item because of lack of farm early and certain items are often purchased later on or behind the curve. A jungler should be trying to put laners behind the curve, specifically the ones with the best item build path or one that scales the best with their abilities.)

Another (Better) Example: Nasus needs CDR to farm Q. If nasus can be forced to buy defensive items instead of CDR this prevents him from stacking effectively. Therefore pressuring Nasus at a certain point in the game is very effective. But once the Nasus reaches a certain power, Ganking him is no longer effective, and a jungler should focus on getting the champions strong that can kill nasus later in the game.

Summary: Ganking at certain times during the game can be far more or far less effective. If a Jungler does not listen to the Top laner when he says, you need to gank right now or we lose the game, or does not listen when top pings the jungler to fall back from the lane, that might be a good reason for the top laner to be upset or become "Toxic" because the top laner recognized a win condition that the Jungler was not able or not willing to act on.

Thilmer6 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sgt Pepper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v30ZJ3Ex,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T20:46:07.731+0000)

Top Laners often know the matchups they are playing better than their Jungler. Therefore a Top laner knows when he needs a gank in order to win the lane, or stop an opponent from reaching a certain power curve.

For example. If Jax reaches an item threshold that allows him to win 1v1 and sustain while pushing the lane, he becomes very difficult to beat. Jax needs to be slowed down and prevented from reaching that power curve.

Another (Better) Example: Nasus needs CDR to farm Q. If nasus can be forced to buy defensive items instead of CDR this prevents him from stacking effectively. Therefore pressuring Nasus at a certain point in the game is very effective. But once the Nasus reaches a certain power, Ganking him is no longer effective, and a jungler should focus on getting the champions strong that can kill nasus later in the game.

Summary: Ganking at certain times during the game can be far more or far less effective. If a Jungler does not listen to the Top laner when he says, you need to gank right now or we lose the game, or does not listen when top pings the jungler to fall back from the lane, that might be a good reason for the top laner to be upset or become "Toxic" because the top laner recognized a win condition that the Jungler was not able or not willing to act on.

This afternoon I played Mundo top against Vayne.

(Me)- Jungler, you better camp this lane because I can't do shit against Vayne and she is going to get fed in farm.

(Jungler)- "Ignores the lane completely"

….

(Jungler 15 minutes later)- Why Vayne has so much farm and so many ítems?!

(Me)- [darius-angry]

MentalHangukJg1 votes

{quoted}

This afternoon I played Mundo top against Vayne.

(Me)- Jungler, you better camp this lane because I can't do shit against Vayne and she is going to get fed in farm.

(Jungler)- "Ignores the lane completely"

….

(Jungler 15 minutes later)- Why Vayne has so much farm and so many ítems?!

(Me)- [darius-angry]

This afternoon I played Mundo top against Vayne.

You are supposed to dodge. Mundo cannot do anything to Vayne from minute 1 till the end of the game. Be a smart boy next time and dodge the game.

Thilmer3 votes

{quoted}

You are supposed to dodge. Mundo cannot do anything to Vayne from minute 1 till the end of the game. Be a smart boy next time and dodge the game.

Being first or second pick as a toplaner is shit. [sg-soraka]

The Sgt Pepper4 votes

If a top laner is toxic it is because they feel like they got cheated or ripped off.

This is usually because of champions with extreme unbalance in their design.

Tahm Kench shield almost doubles his combat max health as early as level one, this stat is far more unbalanced than anything I've seen in this game.

This would make any player rage. Like if a ADC got double AD when low on health. Making it impossible to all in.

People in general don't get upset unless something is unfair or unbalanced.

It is more to do with current champion design than anything else in my opinion.

Either way, Jax beats both the skill matchups you mentioned, and Renekton is fine against anyone that doesn't have hyper scaling.

BestPudgeNA2 votes

Losing lane = losing game

Just top lane things

Ranked Bot2 votes

Jungle Pantheon Main Here - I love this article, and everything it states to have a cooperative game.

Blowing flash is huge; watching the map and timing out camps is probably the hardest thing. There is almost a hidden rhythm to it.

Advice I have generated from playing so many losing games... if you are close to a lane that is pushed in.... Enter lane and make them flash or use a sum spell.

This relives your teammate, and gives them a little "oooh lala" confidence boost. Enemy will play safer and less aggressive.

The only reason I would not come to lane in an emergency situation would be if i need EXP to get one more level, or closer to the next level.

Any more hot advice topics?

Hammermancer2 votes

Here's my reply as another top lane main

If you don't want to come top, do me a favor and get the bot lane and mid s trong? I'll do my best to bait enemy jungle up top

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