you have mortal reminder for any assasin/adc /attack dmg dealer to counter healing/lifestealing you have morellonomicon for ap but why not make thornmail counter lifesteal/healing on targets who attackked you i myself as fighters/tanks ,find myself drain tanked without anything in exchange
archerno18 votesCounter to Thornmail is Lifesteal. Thornmail isnt supposed to counter ITS counter.
Spoofghoul11 voteson that note armor counters ad
so why does something which have ad counter armor
According to your logic none of these items should have armorpen
because then they counter their counter
Sona x Rubick2 votesarmor/mr pene would have a word with you
same with healing, healing champs are supposed to heal, why are they countered by gravious wounds?
you need so much things for thornmail to works tons of armor cause of the armor ratio people attacking you magic penetration and your target to not have lifesteal.
Tychusfindlay9191 votes[deleted]
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesif you want your 
to do damage? get magic pen runes ideally ap champ get a 
AgentBlack2 votesSeems pretty drastic. Several ADCs need life steal to survive in team fights; they have small health pools that replenish quickly through attacking, which allows them to recover from stray damage while still being vulnerable to assassins' burst. If they get reduced healing just for hitting their most accessible targets (tanks), they'll get wiped out/zoned by AoE that's not even aimed at them, or forced to stay so far back that they can't effectively deal damage.
ReshiKillim1 votesAs long as you have enough armor, thornmail will deal more damage than the lifesteal will heal.
Shrek Luigi1 votesStacking too much armor is counterintuitive because a large portion of it's gold efficiency is rendered obsolete as soon as one of the sustained-damage AD chanps on the other team builds a LW item/BC and starts ignoring a large percentage of it. Armor also has diminishing returns depending on how much you buy so it naturally gets less gold efficient as you stack more.
Not as big an issue on bruisery Champs with %HP damage/tanks with high base damage values/tanks that don't need to do much damage at all......but consider if you were heading toplane with a different tank or fighter and had to 1v1 against a competent player and every single morsel of gold is of significance! How are you suppoed to make your trades do damage if you spent all your gold on mitigating damage? And what are you going to do when they start ignoring that damage mitigation and, god forbid, they start to outscale you?
Armor is a useful Stat, but it's possible to have too much of a good thing. It really is a balancing act.
ReshiKillim1 votesI mostly agree with you, as you can definitely have too much armor on a lot of fighters. And on some tanks as well, as you'd need a variety of stats on most.
But I probably shouldn't be speaking though, as my fav tank is Rammus who's job is to stack up ridiculous amounts of armor and force one poor soul to kill themselves on him..
..Not to mention the unfairness of redsmite cinderhulk thornmail stacked randuin's Rammus.
The Deckowner1 votesthis is not true at all.
FreshAsFebreze2 votesAs long as you have enough armor, thornmail will deal more damage than the lifesteal will heal.
This is beyond false
Reikken1 votesit isn't If you have 6 thornmails (because they give the most armor. I know the passive doesn't stack), your opponent can have 100 MR and 40% lifesteal and both cleaver and LDR and they'll still take damage from hitting you
FreshAsFebreze1 votesit isn't If you have 6 thornmails (because they give the most armor. I know the passive doesn't stack), your opponent can have 100 MR and 40% lifesteal and both cleaver and LDR and they'll still take damage from hitting you
Well if it takes 6 thornmails to actually send damage back, that shows how useless the item is. Using a feasible build for an armor tank, lifesteal always wins over thornmail return damage. I know because I watch it happen in game.
Vallalan1 votesit would be super out of place on thornmail. grievous wounds on a tank item is an interesting idea. but on thornmail it has no place. its designed as a counter to lifesteal and they nerfed it because it was simply too strong before. you could build lifesteal and STILL kill yourself as an adc. (even with a BT)
It would be interesting if they introduce an MR item or Armor item that applies grievous wounds on being hit by a spell. it would give tanks an answer for vlad/swain/life steal oriented sustained damage tops who rely on lifesteal. that said, I feel like that would be very hard to balance as you'd have to make sure it didnt fuck over caster ADCs. ADCs should never ever be in a state where they kill themselves just for attacking a tank. and grievous wounds on a tank item would do just that. which is why I think its an interesting idea but will probably never work.
Mirkhail1 votesBecause tank are not supposed to counter adc lifesteal, especially late-game tank, their job is to provide cc. be a meat shield, engage, peel. Morellonomicon only work when the target have less then 35% hp, it's passive is useful for burst mage so their target can't heal as much before being burst. I think execution calling and mortal reminder passive is maybe to strong.
