How do you even lane as an enchanter support?

Chalze··2 votes·3,620 views

It feels like every time I'm against a hook support and for me it may take anything from 10 seconds to 30 seconds to try poke them down or do some meaningful damage but all they need is half a second to hit a hook and guarantee my death. Also, trying to dodge the hooks don't actually matter since it doesn't negate the fact that all it takes is one hook to land to achieve certain death immediately.

Another problem I have is the fact that even if they do miss their hook they still have so much else to bring to the table, whether its unparalleled tankiness (Naut, Blitz, Thresh, Swain), more CC (Naut, Pyke, Thresh), for some reason insane damage (Pyke, Swain). Isn't the ability to displace a champion, especially towards you/your team enough utility? For instance, at level 5, even with a ton of minions freshly arrived at my turret, Naut just walks into me, autos me and kills me with his ADC and walks out with his shield. No summoners needed, no ultimate needed.

25 Comments

IUsedToPlayJinx5 votes

You dont, you just dodge the game, thats literally the only counterplay for Blitzcrank Nautilus Pyke Thresh Leona

Kovorix3 votes

You actually play defensive and stay behind your adc. When he goes to aggressive and dies it is his own fault for playing wrong.

boricCentaur12 votes

Janna and just press r. I mean also wtf are you doing? Like why are you attacking the fucking support as a enchanter your job is not poke or damage it's too peel and buff.

Like if your sona you get hooked by ummm thresh well you press r or run away with heal or try to fight. You have a adc that will do the majority of the damage and if you die but they kill the enemy adc then you won the trade.

It sounds like you are just 1v1ing them like THERE ARE TWO OTHERS AND BOTH OF THEM WILL DO THE DAMAGE.

Illabethe2 votes

Not even close to true. Good supports DO poke, but do so from the safety of minions. You never EVER let a lane full HP as an enchanter support. It's bad for your jungle gankers. It's bad for you. It's bad for your adc.

Kai Guy1 votes

What Champion vs what champion do you need specifics for?

Chalze1 votes

Any enchanter vs any hook champion.

The only one who is fine against them is permabanned by hook players (Morgana)

Kai Guy2 votes

The generalist advice is dodge hook + use minion wave, then CC their adc. Its the kind of advice any one can use and does not help a player very much. So give me your main enchanter and the matchup that's most difficult for you.

Chalze1 votes

It doesn't matter if you dodge their hook. They'll always have something else anyway. If I'm in range to CC their ADC I'm in range to die by hook.

What do I do against a hook champion as Janna, Soraka, Sona or Lux?

Kai Guy3 votes

item 3301 line items for the movement speed if dodging is difficult.

Janna. Use ghost passive and remain inside minions. maintain about half the distance of their hooks at all time as anything less then that's gonna result to much risk. Throw the bird only when hooks are on CD as the MS and ghost are very usefull. If your ADC is hooked a qick shield then Disengage their ADC with your Q. Slow their adc. Once you get R you have some of the best disengage. Blitz is ok but if your adcs bad he is a nightmare. Pyke is difficult to poke out so don't bother trying to harass with bird, focus on ADC as if you get them low enough all in from the hook stands to get them killed. Natu I don't have enough matchup experience but mostly find avoiding his auto range to be ideal. Thresh can be disrupted with Q.

Lux. Stay back and poke Hold Q for if they land something. Im not a big fan of lux support as I don't feel she has great synergy with a lot of adcs and has to play reactively.

Raka Is pretty easy. Pound them with Q when they move up to get MS boost. Use E to interrupt skills if they hit something.

Sona is a risker champ and has to poke with Q. honestly I find everything she does to be more or less inside Nami kit and the places they differ I favor what Nami brings.

Big Nasty Mèat1 votes

You ban Blitz, take Guardian, and clench your ass for the entire laning phase.

The thigh guy1 votes

You start playing hooks. Because there is no beating them now. They auto win.

Chalze2 votes

But that's the thing, I'm unwilling to because that just seems like cheap and borderline immoral. I've always hated playing meta champions because I want to play a champion and win with them, not play a champion who wins games for me.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

But that's the thing, I'm unwilling to because that just seems like cheap and borderline immoral. I've always hated playing meta champions because I want to play a champion and win with them, not play a champion who wins games for me.

Unfortunately that’s the state the game is in.

It’s been like this for the past 2 seasons. The riot approved flavor of the month is the only thing playable.

Illabethe2 votes

They do not auto win. Thresh loses a lot. Pyke loses a lot. Blitz is easy to zone.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

They do not auto win. Thresh loses a lot. Pyke loses a lot. Blitz is easy to zone.

Maybe if they are played into Morgana. Oh wait. Her ban rate is sky high because she is the ONLY THING that counters these champions now.

Illabethe2 votes

I beat them regularly on Nami .......

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

I beat them regularly on Nami .......

Congrats? You are the exception not the average.

I can consistently beat kha’zix On Kayn. Does that suddenly mean kha isn’t a counter to Kayn?

Illabethe2 votes

If it can be done, it can be done, and thus the average are just a bad reflection of potential.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

If it can be done, it can be done, and thus the average are just a bad reflection of potential.

No. It shows you outclassed the person you’re playing against. If in a matchup where both of you are equal, I’ll use the Kayn vs kha example again, there is nothing Kayn can do. He’s loses without question.

PB4UAME1 votes

Nami has a super high winrate this patch at well over 52% looking at all regions (a tad bit lower in NA, even higher in European regions), so uh, not entirely sure what you're on about at all. Hell, in Japan in plat plus she has a 55% winrate, the highest of any champion in the game.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Nami has a super high winrate this patch at well over 52% looking at all regions (a tad bit lower in NA, even higher in European regions), so uh, not entirely sure what you're on about at all. Hell, in Japan in plat plus she has a 55% winrate, the highest of any champion in the game.

It’s not about nami. It’s about squishy picks into Pyke.

Illabethe1 votes

I can beat Kha with Kayn. Build Armor. Stop thinking every game has to have a conventional build path where you sacrifice 6-7 deaths before you can become relevant. Kayn CAN behave like a Juggernaut, and If that's how you win vs Kha, That's how you win.

The reason I can beat Blitz with Nami vs equal skill isn't playing better at the same skill level. It's building the right things, adapting, and knowing how wave control affects Blitz's Pressure. Sometimes I have over 260 Armor on Nami. Sometimes I have 2900 HP. Sometimes I have 515 AP.

preternatural1 votes

you must be smarter than your opponents and make their efforts count for nothing. whatever that means.

Illabethe1 votes

Depends on the enchanter, but the general rule is knowing when to be aggressive and when to be patient. Some enchanters like Nami are purely aggressive zoners whose entire goal is to set up bubbles and keep targets under half health. The key to really playing her is to know that once these conditions are met, a good R that hits your own adc, and the opponent, and following the wave with a perfectly aimed bubble represents almost 4 seconds of disruption to your target, and makes it VERY hard for them to avoid your skills. If you try to pause in between and not sequence them, you're worthless.

Soraka is also generally a poker. She pokes to be able to heal. You do NOT just sit behind your adc and heal; you will kill yourself.

Janna is about predicting the opponent and generally staying behind your adc if you want them to escape, and in front of them if you want to engage. To REALLY use her, you need to know where the opponent will be or trick them to be somewhere. The Q tornados can be used much like advanced Lissandra E strats, in that you can be walking in one direction but sending a tornado elsewhere. Tough to master, but learning how to trick the laners into walking right into the path can dramatically change her lane. You can also use Flash to use R to separate a support from their adc by flashing between them, but this is something to be done with caution.

Hook champs are zone champs. If versus one, help your adc put some push pressure on lanes (ESPECIALLY if it's an Ezreal who sucks balls at clearing) The last thing you want to do is Freeze, because an open line to you is much more dangerous than being out. Don't push the lane, but don't let it collapse either. You want 3-4 minions alive at all times to block hooks. I'm not saying to KILL the minions, but take some HP off them. Keep the wave NEAR your turret, but not entirely in it. Eventually your Jungler (if they are a sensible jungler.....) will create opportunities, or the hook champs will get impatient and slip up. THEN you can get aggressive. Enchanter vs Hook is supposed to favor Hook, but when you master your champs, in reality it CAN be the other way around.

Keep in mind hook champs are usually item 3302 champs, so they have minion dominance by default, which feeds into their hook pressure. If you take some of that away by helping your adc, you make the lane MUCH less difficult.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Simple, you don't play Enchanters.

Welcome to Hook/Diving CC Bot Support Meta.

Now let's add Pyke as a cherry on top.

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