I actually like the new Maokai a lot

HateDaddy··27 votes·2,076 views

In my opinion, his top lane performance is more or less the same. Sustains hard, pokes with Q/E. engages ganks with W it goes for all-ins with W/R. I don't feel like he lost too much in lane, granted I'm a pretty experienced Maokai player at this point. But I absolutely hate his Es bush passive. This feels like such a gimmicky and lazy addition when it could've been far more interesting.

I understand it was supposed to make his jungle clear better but this could've easily been a passive addition to only apply to monsters. The %hp being moved to it is nice as well but his E still feels very random and tacked on and that kind of disappoints me. I would love to see his E factor into his healing somehow because I love his combat healing tank design. And in these moments, his E just feels like it's there to reduce his passives CD while his Q/W/R actually contribute to his design from a lockdown point of view.

Not to mention, his E cheese is apparently making him a ridiculously stupid support and I would hate to see him receive nerfs just because of his E. My only complaint about him is his E, its gimmicky and lazy. The rest of the kit is fantastic. Especially meowkai and the army of cats when he presses R.

53 Comments

Ahristocats6 votes

46% win rate toplane 51% win rate support

they're nerfing his support power in next patch HF/GL

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:23:05.661+0000)

46% win rate toplane 51% win rate support

they're nerfing his support power in next patch HF/GL

I hope so but I just hope that doesn't include nerfing something other than his E because riot tends to balance that way sometimes. His top/jungle is fine, I just don't want it to indirectly suffer over his support.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

his top and jungle isnt fine if his win % is still 46% after the rework

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:26:03.994+0000)

his top and jungle isnt fine if his win % is still 46% after the rework

even if that's true, which I don't think it is but whatever, I don't want those roles to suffer because of his support. It's pure speculation until riot pulls the trigger on something, but I've seen them do this from time to time where they don't actually nerf the problem. They nerf something else as explained as "focusing on enhancing weaknesses and keeping strengths."

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

"even if its true" it is his laning and jungling power is shit now... even after the rework his win rate is still 46% the only role he is powerful in is support and that is full ap support .

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

his top lane win % is shit, its like 46% the same it has been for about hmm this entire season...

his jungle is below 50% and the only role is punishing enemies at is ap maokai support

i say his rework is shit and a failure ... his ult is too slow... it needs to be speed up and the cd on it is way to long.

HateDaddy8 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-10T21:59:15.756+0000)

his top lane win % is shit, its like 46% the same it has been for about hmm this entire season...

his jungle is below 50% and the only role is punishing enemies at is ap maokai support

i say his rework is shit and a failure ... his ult is too slow... it needs to be speed up and the cd on it is way to long.

Nah his rework did exactly what it was supposed to. Maokai crowds out other tank picks when he's good because he does everything too well. So they focused on making him more about healing and counterengage or secondary engage as opposed to just being a wall of stats you either can or can't run through. That's a success in my books. Furthermore, I enjoy his ult quite a bit. It might be too slow, but that's always something that could be adjusted if need be. And flash Ws still exist for weak engages (it's always been a weaker engage tool anyway) or for picks. In my mind, yes he lost some stuff but it made his design feel more unique.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but he wasnt doing anything well ... prior to rework he had a 45 % win rate since the start of the season...

his new ult is a joke.

his damage is really reduced from what it was.... and part of that was the impact damage on E ... now that the %hp damage is moved from w to E you have zero reason to max W cuz the cool down dont really reduce alot and its root duration is crap scaling and it does no damage.

season 6 he was strong season 5 he was stupid strong...

the rework is bad... the only way he has a 50%+ win rate is ap maokai support

look it up

HateDaddy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:14:35.342+0000)

but he wasnt doing anything well ... prior to rework he had a 45 % win rate since the start of the season...

his new ult is a joke.

his damage is really reduced from what it was.... and part of that was the impact damage on E ... now that the %hp damage is moved from w to E you have zero reason to max W cuz the cool down dont really reduce alot and its root duration is crap scaling and it does no damage.

season 6 he was strong season 5 he was stupid strong...

the rework is bad... the only way he has a 50%+ win rate is ap maokai support

look it up

Look what up? He was basically in every professional game lol. And his winrate went down prior to the rework because he had been picked so much and got nerfed. Rather than continuing to nerf him and make him shit, they reworked him and I'm totally okay with that.

Maokai has never had a high winrate in solo queue as a top laner. So basing your opinion off of that and that alone is a bit misrepresentative of what his strengths actually are. His damage is more or less the same in lane. I've never maxed W second anyway because E/Q poke is what makes him a strong laner. And as someone with quite a bit of experience on him at this point, I'm telling you he's pretty decent. Is he as strong as he once was? Of course not, that was the point of the rework. But now they can actually buff him without fear of him crowding other picks out if he's actually weak. That's why this non stop whining is stupid. Riot will address him if he's weak. Instead of bitching and moaning, be constructive and objective to what his kit actually is now.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

LOOK UP THE WIN % OF TOP,JUNGLE , AND SUPPORT is what im talking about

and his win rate is shit in 2 of those 3 roles

and the rework didnt help him top at all

Sqkerg2 votes

Winrate of a champ does not indicate the success of a rework, if that were true the sejuani rework would be the most successful rework of all time.

Does Maokai need to get buffed? Maybe. But you can't determine the success of a champ based on winrates.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i understand that but when others wanna come on here and say his win rate is better etc when the only role his win rate is going up is support then my point still stands... he has one of the worst win rates of a champ for top and jungle and has had that win rate for some time now, prior to the rework. that was my main point.

Leetri1 votes

Wouldn't that be the Skarner juggernaut rework since he ended up with an almost 70% win rate?

NvestmentPlanker1 votes

stop. don't remind me of that shit

Sqkerg1 votes

Possibly, I remember that he was broken but I don't remember the extent.

Leetri1 votes

I think he peaked with 67% win rate, which is one of if not the highest win rate ever in League.

DemiluniS1 votes

Maybe instead of looking at stats play him yourself and base your opinion on your experience. He works perfectly fine in the jungle with tankish build. The win rate drop is probably because people trying him without adapting their playstyle

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i do play him i am a maokai main.

i have a 58% win rate on him

he is my most played champ

Pippen The Short9 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-10T21:59:15.756+0000)

his top lane win % is shit, its like 46% the same it has been for about hmm this entire season...

his jungle is below 50% and the only role is punishing enemies at is ap maokai support

i say his rework is shit and a failure ... his ult is too slow... it needs to be speed up and the cd on it is way to long.

I would agree on the speed of his ult, but the big change to his ult was a big increase to his skill cap as well. So I think as people adjust and have to learn him differently his win rates will slowly return to above 50%.

HateDaddy10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pippen The Short,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:26:15.644+0000)

I would agree on the speed of his ult, but the big change to his ult was a big increase to his skill cap as well. So I think as people adjust and have to learn him differently his win rates will slowly return to above 50%.

His ult is so good for zoning now, I love it. Rumble/Maokai is pretty disgusting

Glory ln Death1 votes

I like the current speed of it, too! It makes it easier to point-blank root people and then Q them into another root for an additional (and slightly longer) root! Combined with W to initiate, it's pretty easy to get them rooted for 3-4 seconds!

Sahn Uzal1 votes

You should see someone try to play around Maokai and Sion on the same team. It's hilarious.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i have a 57% win rate on him ...

when is over all win rate is 46%

i have played maokai as a mane for 3 seasons. the damage nerfs on his W and put on E which is unreliable cuz you cant target them and only get the bonus damage if it was in a bush is iffy at best.. his root duration on W is shit. its 1 second and scales up to 2 at max rank so there is no reason to max it this now ... so you either max Q or E now ... and ideally its E to try to get the most out of the damage early. which means your main farming and trade tool Q is 2nd tier now..

his ult has too long of a cd and its too slow

Pippen The Short2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:30:36.231+0000)

i have a 57% win rate on him ...

when is over all win rate is 46%

i have played maokai as a mane for 3 seasons. the damage nerfs on his W and put on E which is unreliable cuz you cant target them and only get the bonus damage if it was in a bush is iffy at best.. his root duration on W is shit. its 1 second and scales up to 2 at max rank so there is no reason to max it this now ... so you either max Q or E now ... and ideally its E to try to get the most out of the damage early. which means your main farming and trade tool Q is 2nd tier now..

his ult has too long of a cd and its too slow

What does that have to do with anything? Your opinion does not reflect reality. Elophant tracks mao'kai as increasing in win rate, increasing in pick rate, and increased damage output. Honestly, you're probably just playing him wrong.

Also, if you're farming with his Q, you're definitely playing him wrong.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

lol dude lookie here the only place he has a increasing pick rate and win rate is as AP SUPPORT

Pippen The Short1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=00010001000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:56:22.724+0000)

lol dude lookie here the only place he has a increasing pick rate and win rate is as AP SUPPORT

Yes, in higher teirs like Challenger and Diamond.

But in lower tiers, which is where the vast majority of games are played his pick rate is increasing in jungle right now.

Besides, there aren't enough players in Challenger and Diamond for Maokai to jump 10 spots in overall pick rate.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

and according to Elophant which you are referencing his most popular win and highest win rate build has a fukin sighstone in it... which is evidence to him being busted as a support and not good top or jungle.

Pippen The Short1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=00010001000100000001,timestamp=2017-05-10T22:59:30.847+0000)

and according to Elophant which you are referencing his most popular win and highest win rate build has a fukin sighstone in it... which is evidence to him being busted as a support and not good top or jungle.

lol, you can go to Lolking, lolcounter, op.gg, elophant, champion.gg, lolprofile, leagueofgraphs (my personal favorite), and many more. I just mentioned op.gg and elophant because those are the most popular to my knowledge.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

you are the one who wants to put these sites to reference to back up your argument and discredit me when they do just what i stated, proves he is trash top and jungle and is op as support.

and they sites take data from rank games plat and higher...

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Maokai is being played as an AP support...

I doubt that is intended.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

my opinion? the entire post is about the opinion of the OP

Pippen The Short2 votes

Overall Maokai has a 49.91% win rate according to OP.GG in the last week, and a 47.81% in the last month. Which means that his win rate is going up at the moment. Which totally contradicts everything MrFawknSunshine is trying to say about it being a useless rework.

https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

I imagine that his winrate will slowly increase over time as people start to master his new kit and changes in damage.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

his win rate is on a rise as a support ...

look at his win rate top and jungle plz

top his win rate is 44.82% for 49th out of top laners

jungle is 46.73% win rate for 32nds out of junglers

his win rate at support is 52.17% which is 3rd for support

which backs up everything i have said

DemiluniS1 votes

You can't base it off of win rates. I can play 3 games as mao in the jungle and win them all, and have 100% win rate as him, and I dont give a damn if he got 40% win rate glabally, I'm enjoying him and think he's strong... You're just being a sheep who got no will to adapt your playstyle and basing it on the experience of others

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

no .... im basing it on playing him for the last 3 years an continue to play him now after the rework... and i have adapted how to play him... i still win with him and do well on him.

and the win rates have to do with how he is being played and shows where he is strong

and this entire post by the OP is based on his opinion...

DemiluniS1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usvq87Nm,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-11T14:47:40.606+0000)

no .... im basing it on playing him for the last 3 years an continue to play him now after the rework... and i have adapted how to play him... i still win with him and do well on him.

and the win rates have to do with how he is being played and shows where he is strong

and this entire post by the OP is based on his opinion...

yet you basing yours purely on win rates! Why the hell people giving a damn about win rates if they enjoying the champion themselves and thinks he's strong? I've played new mao in the jungle and he felt strong, and I couldn't care any less about his 46% win rate

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well that is stupidity then... cuz high ranked.elo players played him when he came out with the rework and all said it was trashed that here was zero reason to play him jungle.

he needs more help to be a champ that is worth picking on a regular basis. win rates is an indication of his strength as a champ

hence why people cry and bitch over ivern's win rate in jungle

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Win-rates from NA.OP.GG:

  • Top: 44.66%
  • Jungle: 46.55
  • Support: 52.47%

The only thing this indicates is that people learned to use him as an AP support.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

{quoted}

Not to mention, his E cheese is apparently making him a ridiculously stupid support and I would hate to see him receive nerfs just because of his E.

Congrats, you've realized what the inevitable outcome of this rework is going to be, he will be gutted because of his E cheese.

GrReaper961 votes

His E has already been nerfed in PBE btw

KoKoboto1 votes

I don't understand how difficult playing against Mao'Kai AP support could be, I'd imagine it'd be the same to playing against new Mao'Kai in top lane and just avoid the brush. Kinda like how you avoid GP barrels, Illaoi tentacles, Donger turrets idk.

Granted I only played against this once down in the bot lane and I feel the enemy jungler decided the lane more than Mao'Kai himself. Lane was in our favor mostly until we got ganked and misplayed/got outplayed.

Sqkerg1 votes

I think it's mostly the surprise factor tbh

Meep Man1 votes

But I like his E build. It makes me feel like I'm the king of a bunch of seedling minions and makes me become part of the forest man.

yangus Beef1 votes

I don't like him, mainly because his ult is very hard to land, and I can't engage in it. It is more of a utility, then something that would be useful in mid, top lane, and especially jungle. I wouldn't be surprised if people start playing him support for that reason.

IceKingChernobog1 votes

meanwhile Zac mains.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

You make good points. His win rates look pretty dang low, so he may need tuning. But you may also be right that they'll climb some as people adjust. Either way, rework did what it was supposed to, totally agreed.

YoungFarmer1 votes

His new voice made him unplayable for me. I liked his old voice. I also hate this new ult, Too slow.

Pater Gascoigne1 votes

As a support main, I'm having a blast with abusing the ridiculous E damage in brushes. I was on the fence about buying his skin bundle, but then I remembered Riot loves to nerf anything viable that wasn't in their vision for the champion. I can already see the E getting gutted the next patch

Friendly Ram1 votes

there's actually an e buff on pbe. Damage changed from 45/70/95/120/145 to 25/50/75/100/125 Target max health damage increased from 6/6.5/7/7.5/8% to 8% at all ranks.

Bisaknosp1 votes

i wouldnt play him top again (already did and it was horrible xD) it feels really nice to jungle with him tho and well his supporting is aids because of the brush control but w/e

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