Eve would be a lot healther if she wasn't a jungler.

Koechophe··2 votes·361 views

Her me out on this before the inevitable stream of downvotes.

Eve has a few core weaknesses in her kit that (are supposed) to make up for her permastealth. The first is that she has a distinct lack of CC. She only has high cooldown ult which is only a slow, so she's not supposed to tie her targets down very much. She has decently high mana costs on her Q and E which make sustained usage of them punishing early on. She has extreme vulnerability to poke due to her being extremely low ranged, squishy, and lacking in defensive steriods. She also has to remain in vicinity to waveclear, and is (believe it or not) weak in the early levels, with a power spike in the early-mid game.

Here's the problem; the jungle completely negaets most, if not all of these weaknesses. She isn't mana hungry early on because she's going to take the first blue, and because afterwards she spends enough time in stealth to regen her mana. She is given CC not only from red buff, but from chilling smite, which means that a fundamental weakness in her kit is permanantly removed. Poke is a non-entity in the jungle too, and her difficulty waveclearing becomes a non issue due to the fact that she can take down jungle monsters well. And you can't punish her level 1-4 weakness because she's safely farming the jungle where denying her exp and money is inadvisable, due to the fact that she can escape just fine (whereas in lane you could easily force her behind her own turret to miss out on cs).

Not only that, the jungle necessitates a certain standard of early power. You have to be able to survive the first few clears, so you have to have base stats that are decent. Because of this, riot hasn't touched her early skill's power, and instead hit her max level power. This causes her not only to remain extremely oppressive in the early stages of the game (because she does damage and can't be stopped from ganking) but it means that due to her base damage nerfs, she falls off like a rock when you hit ~level 12. And (as any skilled eve player will tell you) building straight assassin just isn't an option, not only because of the questionable viability of assassins in the current meta, but because she is too squishy with too low of a damage spike as well as low raneg to support assassination.

The jungle also allows her to stay completely hidden from vision almost all the time. It necessitates deep ward which are dangerous and require team coordination to function successfully (which isn't actually a thing in most solo queue games). All of this accumulates into a champion that feels extremely oppressive, but is backed by such lousy stats and an underloaded kit that, unless she snowballs her team, she ends up feeling like dead weight.

In a lane, however, her dynamic would be completely changed. Her Q can clear waves, yes, but in a posiiton where she's vulnerable to poke, and she is constantly visible. If she wants to drop into stealth, she is constantly losing CS, meaning that she is easier to track and the counterplay is much simpler: back off once eve has been in stealth for a little while, while the mid lane pressures, forcing eve to either miss CS or reveal herself. It also makes warding a bit easier, because the mid lane can pink against her rather than EVERY lane having to pink against her. By cutting off one lane (top or bot) you know that eve is going to the other one, thus giving you knowledge of her movement. Her lack of sustain would force her to be more adversarial if she wants to be successful, and would require clever manuvering of her W and her burst in order to win. She would be hard to gank, but let's face it, most champs who are popular are.

In my opinion, eve was designed (from the rework) as primarily a laner. The issue is, the jungle makes her far too strong, so she keeps getting nerfed (or maybe gutted is a better word) so that her perma stealth is quite literally her only strength. I know a lot of people are going to hate me for this next statement, but I think that if Eve were removed from the jungle (by reducing the damage dealt to monsters, much like they did to alistar so he couldn't be an issue in the jungle) then she could be balanced and allowed to be strong without getting nerfed every time her pick rate rises above 3%.

In many ways, I think this would actually strengthen her identity, not harm it. Eve is, to me, an assassin above all else, but she hasn't really been viable as one for a long, long time. Her base damages are just too abysmall, she needs defensive stats too badly. I never really thought that jungler was key to who she was, but assassin was extremely important to me. I feel like "fighter offtank" just doesn't fit her personality or her lore at all. Some people may think that she needs to be a jungler, and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but "Assassin who is constantly invisible and pops out of nowhere and kills you" feels a lot more toxic than "Laner who, if they ignore their lane, can go invisble and kill you at the cost of tower pressure and with a lot more warning beforehand".

And PLEASE don't cite the time directly after her rework when eve was sometimes played mid. She was so broken at that point that it is just not a good example. I remember being able to full/0 a fully stacked cho'gath with just my dfg and ult. There was a time when you could get her ult to do base of 60% max enemy hp at more than double the range it is now. She was overtuned to a really bad extent, that is not a good reason why all the previous analysis doesn't apply.

TL:DR The reason eve is so toxic is because the jungle hides her weaknesses, forcing a constant stream of nerfs that have removed most of her strengths (aside from the permastealth). She would be a lot more manageable as a laner instead, and it is my opinion that putting her there is (short of a rework, which I wouldn't advocate for because there's every probability she'd get the Mord or Cass treatment) is the best way to make it so she can be balanced.

Thank you for reading. If you didn't read, kindly do so before posting a comment about how I'm stupid. If you have read and still want to post such a comment, go for it.

5 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT2 votes

the problem about every single champion in the entire game who can jungle good (maybe except ekko) is that their laning is either too weak early on or they dont scale good enough.

so for those that dont scale super good but have incredible early power which comes from high kit-versatility (many things in their kit even before ult) go into the jungle so they can exert pressure on all lanes with their high early power (elise, lee sin, rexai who all have high mobility, high damage and good "single target" cc early on) while those who have relatively weak early laning can somewhat "skip" their weak phases by hiding and farming up until they are strong enough to compete.

now these champions to which i would count evelyn aswell want to, once their weak phase is over, go and find unaware enemies to kill. rengar doesnt want to lane, he wants to ult people. evelyn doesnt want to lane, she wants to go and use her invisibility to kill noobs. nocturne wants to ult people too. gragas is horrible alone and only really good because of the CC for his team.

none of these champions has exceptional waveclear, especially not from a long range which means they will always have trouble laning against champions who can push them in and make them unable to use their roaming power.

most of these champions were much much stronger in the past to an extent that they would actually win lane against most other champions and if they went into the jungle to use even more of their power in an even more unpredictable way, they were almost unstoppable. thats why they had to be nerfed so much to be balanced when jungling that they are almost unable to lane against anything right now.

this problem is not evelyn-specific but shes a special case because she is probably one of the only champions in the game whose laning is absolutely not viable at all, the other one coming to mind being soraka. even janna is a better solo laner than evelyn right now.

if you want to buff evelyn and make her able to lane again while not being broken in the jungle, she has to lose her invisibility. thats what i would vouch for anyways, because its a completely unneccessary mechanic and impossible to balance properly.

Prospector Pete1 votes

Don't know why they're still nerfing her, anyway. Wasn't she already nerfed enough?

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Did you just say that the Jungle negates Evelynn's weaknesses? Her weaknesses are still pretty obvious and she isn't that great of a Jungler at all since her sole strength is her passive, aside from that her CC, range, mobility, and damage are all highly outclassed by most other Junglers.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

I literally just played her top. However, I went tank, not assassin (randuins after Bork, then haunting guise, we won afterwards.) So... I can say this.

She has substantial poke. Especially if the enemy top is melee. I went against a Gnar, and could still poke him well. Thing is, Q is heavily spammable against Gnar because you will almost never get in range to E anyway. Besides, E only uses 50 mana, and W uses none. Not a single time in that game when I was mana hungry.

Stealth has really weird interactions in lane. The lane is big enough that you can walk around them without them seeing you, then jump on them from behind with W.

Problem?

She gets kited. Extremely well (though it may have been for my lack of Boots until after Bork). She has one mobility, and Gnar can hide by going into a bush (Q can't hit). Q should hit enemies you can't see, like Morgana's ult. Then again, it'd also be a stealth detector. But she already has a stealth detector in the form of her passive (while she's cloaked, exclamation point appears above her head if nearby enemy champion). She can stay onto them if she gets in range of Q, (almost, Gnar's Hyper is a little too fast, especially with his slow as well), which, in early game, is actually plenty of damage.

E should be good for dueling... he's Gnar. I didn't duel him much.

W is just a below standard gap - closer, if they have slow/cc. They just wait for you to pop it (and you have to, or else they can just walk away), and use their CC.

Ult is better than I both used it and gave it credit for. It can crush tanks, especially if you get AP.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

Right-out-of-the-rework-table mid lane Eve disagrees.

Though I'll give you that she relied on an item that no longer exist (DFG) to be overboard.

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