The real reason why no one wants to support

Koechophe·Mar 7, 2016·186 votes·9,561 views

Is because in this season, supports are always horrendously behind in levels. I've had games where I'm literally level 11 and the carries on our/their team are level 16-17. Riot not only removed the exp mastery (which could easily be tacked on to bandit, or included elsewhere) and then tied more of the exp gain to kills, which most supports don't get.

Levels are the ultimate form of stat-checking. Being behind in levels makes tanky supports feel squishy, poke supports feel wimpy and utility supports (surprisingly) pretty much the same. A support already has to spend a lot of gold on utilty, and basically pledge to be less powerful than everyone else on the map. I don't want to have to do that from 5 levels behind, to the point where I die instantly if someone looks at me funny and I barely have any contribution beyond wards and whatever my ult is.

Sincerely, a support main.

173 Comments

Old Man TeetoMar 7, 20169 votes

I'm confused.

I end games ahead of my Jungler and ADC in levels.

Bard chimes happily

StoryDuckMar 7, 20165 votes

I should really just bite the bullet and try to learn him. I am quite sick of being under-leveled. It's just...he doesn't really seem that fun to me.

BluePolarizerMar 7, 20168 votes

Basically this. It makes it so that only supports with OP base stats or are completely gold/level independent like Janna Alistar Blitzcrank Soraka Thresh good. If you aren't full build with sightstone, boots and gold item and level 6, your champ sucks now.

Any champ that needs even the tiniest bit of gold or EXP to scale is trash support.

YossarianSenseiMar 7, 20167 votes

You're not supposed to be behind in lvls

If you're falling significantly behind, then there's something wrong with your warding/ roaming/ time spent dead

KoechopheMar 7, 201652 votes

I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

Kills grant such a significant amount of EXP that supports inevitably fall behind. Killing a champ gives 50% of the experience required to reach the slain champion's next level (not current level). This is increased/lowered by 7% per level difference if the target is higher/lower level and can't be lower than 20%. That is a TON of exp.
Supports spend time in a duo lane, which inherently puts them behind.
Supports can't be in constant proximity to minion deaths because they need to ward/clear, which again puts them behind.
Supports (if done properly) back off and give local tower gold to the adc, which puts them even further behind in exp.

As a support main, there are games where I don't fall behind because, for whatever reason, I end up with kills, or else I rake in a crap ton of assists/proximity exp. But there are also games where I do my job, get my team members ahead, and ultimitely end up way far behind, just because there is no ambient exp and nothing that a support is required to do will actually give exp, except arguably assists, which aren't a significant source.

WadeWilson1337Mar 7, 201618 votes

You forgot to mention the fact the support cant farm. As a laner or an ADC, you can simply go to any lane, clear the wave, and no one bats an eye as you are getting farm and doing your job, or even take a jungle camp as laners believe the jungler is a secondary support at this point in the game. As a support, you cant do those things. So what exactly can you do? Your options are either warding/ getting vision as your team farms and pushes waves out, or you go sit there, looking like an idiot as you give your adc a janna E as you just soak up experience from them.

T RexHasTinyArmsMar 7, 20165 votes

Upside of low elo. No one clears side waves anyway so if you have a support w/ any dmg (annie or the like) you can randomly clear a side wave or two at some point in the game when the team isn't doing shit and no one is rotating to catch the wave pushing toward your tower. Such a good source of EXP and the gold/exp was just gonna go to towers/minions if you didn't do it anyway, so you know, the greater good :P

Weasel KenseiMar 8, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cQ4V048N,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-07T23:38:00.982+0000)

Upside of low elo. No one clears side waves anyway so if you have a support w/ any dmg (annie or the like) you can randomly clear a side wave or two at some point in the game when the team isn't doing shit and no one is rotating to catch the wave pushing toward your tower. Such a good source of EXP and the gold/exp was just gonna go to towers/minions if you didn't do it anyway, so you know, the greater good :P

The only problem is your fucktard team will pick the exact moment you do that to pick a fight they had no reason to get into and it will be your fault for farming.... I know, you said when the team isnt doing shit, but thats when the throw urge sets in, and they flash under turrets to try and chase Udyr, get stunned, die to turret and Udyr survives with turtle stance.

I clear some side waves with Karma sometimes, RQ fast clear, when Im Blitz the team follows me around waiting for a hook so I get most of the action always since they actually want to stand next to the support.

RohirrimMar 8, 20161 votes

The best nick ever :)

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20161 votes

If you need to be even in levels to do your job correctly as support then you do not support correctly. You sound like one of those guys who thinks that damage and kills are how you rate a player's performance. As support, you're job is to be the anti-jungle. Not counter their jungler, be the anti-jungle. You're supposed to be as everywhere as the jungler once things start rolling, and you have to have at least as much awareness of the map as jungler (in most instances a little more). The only difference is jungle is trying to kill things where the support is providing utility. A good support doesn't care about levels because they are there to walk up to X spot, use Y stun on Z champ which will allow the engage to proceed and from there the full wipe. At least 70% of all teamfights start because of something the support did. Support might not be as "strong" as the other roles, but support is by far the most crucial component to winning the game. After all, how many ranked games have you lost because the support didn't understand the role correctly?

StoryDuckMar 7, 201618 votes

Okay, you play a level 7 Leona support as the only form of engage on your team because no one wanted to tank and you try to pick a support to help flesh out your team then try to be effective against a level 11 mid, 11 top, 10 jungle, and 9 ADC. Sure, you got 2 kills for your mid laner with nice early roaming but now you cannot tank. Sure, you could peel but what if the enemy team is a poke comp? Lux, Nid, Corki? Gee, I bet you wish you had a few more levels to survive with.

Yes, there are supports that do not need levels as much as others. Blitzcrank Alistar Janna because their utility or kit makes up for it. However, Nami Sona Leona are all examples of support champions that need more levels to stay relevant. Their kits are not defined in single moments like a blitz pull, have superior tankiness with one ability like Alistar, or get near the full power of their kit at level 6 like Janna.

We need to be effective with a gold deficiency already, adding on an EXP handy-cap at the same time is literally killing the support role. I don't think we need to be on par with other roles but being 3-6 levels behind in every game (even games won) is way too much.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20163 votes

First off, Sona has been my main for 3 years, and I'll tell you right now that if you can't play her from behind then you probably are not very well versed in what it truly means to support. She's literally the most support thing in this game. In fact, I start every single game by half healthing the ADC because she hits so hard that if she's even level she will 2 shot anything that isn't a tank. Again, I don't have an issue of falling behind in levels. I don't get where you all are getting that from. I've mained support for years though so I'm a walking support factory. Where you listed a paragraph of all the things that go can go wrong for you, I would make a paragraph listing all the little tricks I can use to sway the game into my favor. Hell, we're not even in a game, we're on the forums, and you are already defeating yourself. People are so confused about power in this game. It's not about what I can do with Sona , it's about what the enemy can do with their Vayne or whatever they're playing. If you understand how to play against other champs then getting your allies kills as a support should never be much of an issue. Of course, what do I know? YOu're complaining about how hard it is to support right now, and I'm saying it's not difficult right now at all. Yea, I can see where you wouldn't listen to me at all, since there's obviously no way that maybe I know a few tricks that you don't that make all the difference. Only been maining support nonstop for four years now. So yea, just dismiss me again, I'm sure you will....unless I ever see you in a game as the enemy support ;)

Also, want to know how I know that you aren't completely sure what you're talking about? It's because you made this scenario where hypothetically I am a lvl 7 Leona against a 2 lvl 11s, a lvl 10, and a lvl 9, and you didn't think that what champs those four were playing would be relevant to the scanario. So here's my answer to your situation in the first paragraph, anyone can win if the champ is hypothetically presented to counter the strategy the player picked, I would pick my strategy based on what the team is. You probably don't process all the necessary information, and that's what goes wrong for you most of the time. That's the impression that gives me. As for the "ok, you play a lvl 7 Leona against a (same enemies from above)" scenario.....to that I say, I don't know what I'd do. I wouldn't be playing a Leona that's lvl 7 while there's lvl 11 enemies on the field. I wouldn't have fallen behind like that to begin with. That's not an issue I have at this point. So the answer is, I would never find myself in that situation.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20169 votes

I know a lot about playing from behind and would appreciate it if you stopped making accusation about my ability to play when you are bronze rank and I am gold. However, what I gave above is a perfect example of where levels matter. Honestly, I am surprised that you think Sona isn't level dependent, her entire kit becomes more powerful with her ranks in ult. Level 11 is a huge boon to her and level 16 makes her scale incredibly well into late game.

I do not play support to sit in lane and babysit my ADC and soak EXP. I help them, I ward for them, I peel for them, and I am there to help them CS when needed but I like to help the rest of my team too. This season has been absolutely awful for my preferred style of roaming and pressuring other lanes while getting deep vision into the enemy jungle to insure my team's survival. I do realize there are many supports content to do this but it was not how I reached Plat rank last season and to be punished for helping my team and playing well is a terrible feeling.

There used to be more options beyond sitting in lane and hoping to snowball. Perhaps because I don't play Alistar, Thresh, or Bard is why I suffer so this season but I do not like those champions. I do not play a one size fits all support. I like Janna in teams that need peel, I like Leona for teams that want to engage, I like Lulu for bullying early game and so on. I switch my support based on what the enemy team is and what my team needs. I will admit I am having alot of trouble figuring out which supports to use lately though because of EXP problems, ward limitation, and a few other issues, but slowly, I think I will get back to plat.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20162 votes

Your rank may be higher, but I have more wins and much better stats. I win 2/3 there, and by the end of the season I'll be higher rank too. Feel free to follow me on that one. I don't sit in lane. In fact, before minute 10 I usually have my ADC set to go, and am in roam mode for the rest of the game, swinging by bot long enough to kill their ADC when he/she reappears, just to move on again. I still don't fall behind in levels. I'm not making accusations about your ability to play, the way you talk about how you support is implying that you are not very good at it. In fact, what you are calling accusation is actually inferring. I also checked your stats which back that theory. So, you can sit on that high horse, or you can listen. I'm not the one who loses most of my support games.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20169 votes

Ummm, yeah. I'm losing my games because my style stopped working. That was kind of my point. Give me that EXP back and I wouldn't be struggling as much as I am now. Not sure why you are being so vehement towards me. I don't feel like I am on a high horse at all (probably the opposite with all the trouble in support I have been having lately), I just didn't want you making accusations about me not knowing how to play and asked you to stop. I suppose it was poor taste of me to bring your bronze rank into it though, sorry bout that.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20162 votes

I am STILL winning games as support because I ADAPTED my style to work. THAT'S my point. You don't need EXP to win. You just need to come to terms with the fact that your old strategy no longer works. Either develop a new one or you'll be stuck in this supp limbo forever. This game evolves, you have to as well. As far as my attitude towards you, I'm not upset or whatever you think. I'm just not one who backs down just because someone else wants to disagree with me. The fact that a personality like that strikes you in the way it does speaks worlds about how pathetic our world has become around us. Not calling you pathetic, just people in general these days in reference to how they think they should be treated by others.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20164 votes

I'm not upset or whatever you think.

Not quite what I meant. More like passionate/directed at me. You come off pretty forceful which probably isn't your intent. I don't blame you, most of us are passionate about this game. We love LOL, it's hard not to be passionate about it. It is why we get upset when even silly minor changes come through. Big changes like this is bound to upset many of us (me included) it is because we care.

Vehement

adjective 1. zealous; ardent; impassioned: a vehement defense; vehement enthusiasm. 2. characterized by rancor or anger; violent: vehement hostility. 3. strongly emotional; intense or passionate: vehement desire. 4. marked by great energy or exertion; strenuous: vehement clapping.

It's a fun word to use because you can apply it to most debates, arguments, and discussions.

As to me not adapting, again I agree. I am struggling to adapt my play style. I feel like I am getting forced into a play style I do not like which is why I would like to have my EXP back. Is it impossible to play support? Hell no, many people are excelling at it. I just happen to have a particular style that doesn't fit well into the current game state. I like my style and trying to force myself to play in a way I do not like is probably why i am struggling so much. Honestly, I wish I could just play mid Lulu/Karma/Morgana so that I could continue to apply map wide pressure while assisting my team, but those 5 minute que wait times are brutal, I have become spoiled on my instant que times. :P

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20162 votes

I know what you said, and I know what it means. You used the wrong word. You said it with negative connotation, which is upset. You don't use broad words like that in that form of context, not without other indicators at least. I just didn't feel like wasting time on it too much so I corrected it and moved on. As for it being about LoL, no, I'm literally just like this as a person. It's who I am by nature. As for the whole posting up the definition thing.....lol, if you knew me in RL you'd see where that's hilarious XD the first tab on my shortcut bar links me to the dictionary, the second one leads me to a language converter, and the third takes me to yo mama's house....k, the third one might be made up lol

StoryDuckMar 7, 20165 votes

Yeah, I was kind of like "Shit, I used it like a verb instead of an adjective." I guess I'm just making up my own language at this point. It made sense in my head at least.

Damn, I was hoping to use that "go to yo mama's house link". They told me it was real! liars.

T RexHasTinyArmsMar 7, 20164 votes

To be fair you're winning bronze games. I hate to be "that guy" but when I've climbed bronze to gold in the past there's stupid shit that I can play in bronze that I get stomped w/ in gold bc people don't know how to deal w/ it in bronze, but do in gold. When I play against plat+ friends who play what they would in ranked I get stomped almost no matter what I play bc there are nuances to the game that I'm not consistent enough w/ to be able to beat them in their main role.

While you can do w/out the EXP and be effective, it is a defining factor in what you can and cannot play in the role effectively. It is the same as how gold income defines what does well in the role (ie vayne scales well w/ items so needs gold, thus would be a shit support). High elo players can play stuff that is really weak in a role (ie old crittlesticks montages, bc you know fiddle is an OP adc pick right?) and stomp below their elo. If you're doing well w/ Sona in bronze then maybe you play her at a silver level. That doesn't make it relevant to how strong she is w/ or w/out the EXP, base your explanation in why she does the same thing w/out levels that she does w/ them rather than if you can play it well or not. I'm pretty sure I can still play Heimerdinger support well enough to be a better than average support in Bronze V, but that doesn't mean it's a strong pick.

cuddlykitten4Mar 8, 20161 votes

I'm sorry to be so blunt about it, but minecraft just finished loading up (FTB takes sooo long to load) so I'll spare teh detailed reasons of why you are wrong and say that, gold or not, you simply don't get it. Argue that with me all you want, but considering that all your counterpoints are disproving something that wasn't even my point to begin with, I'm saying that you have no clue what you're talking about. You just regurgitate things you've heard. Read what I said several times over until you understand what I was saying. Sorry to not spend more time on this, but quite frankly, I dont' think you could comprehend the topic even if I were to explain it.

T RexHasTinyArmsMar 8, 20163 votes

Lol, the salt. Dude, I wasn't actually arguing about if you were right or wrong, but pointing out an error in the logic you responded to the other guy with. If I'm wrong here feel free to point out where, but from what I'm reading it appears that the basic issue is as follows:

Someone says "Supports have X, Y, and Z mechanics that put them at a disadvantage when trying to earn EXP compared to other roles. It is difficult to play at a level disadvantage in addition to a massive gold disadvantage compared to other players."
You respond by saying "If you need to be even in levels to play support you're doing it wrong. Supports have great impact on team fights via utility, and I do really well with them in the current meta." You don't mention it but your 60%+ win rate on Sona seems to be the primary support for this.
The first guy responds saying "yeah but lenoa w/out levels blah blah blah"
You say there is not enough info in the hypothetical he gives you, and ignore pointing out the issue he overlooked in #3, choosing to instead talk about how support is the Nunu jungle mode of making someone else useless rather than making yourself super useful.
From there it devolves into arguing mostly.

What I was saying (not sure you got this bc you don't seem to react to it in a way that makes sense) was not that you are wrong or right, but rather that how you do isn't relevant to the issue unless you're giving the list of "how you get ahead" (which even then is inherently conceding that if you were behind it would be an issue bc you're saying that you shouldn't be behind rather than that it is okay to be behind given how the role functions). You talk about how the levels don't matter, and how you would list ways to stay even instead of complaints about what gets you behind. My counter point is that a coherent argument needs the support of why levels don't matter and that kind of information rather than just counter points to the guy who isn't making the best case for the side he is trying to argue.

I'd say part of the issue is the other guy not explaining his side well (see #3) because it isn't about "I'm behind and can't support" etc, but rather, power spike timings are shitty and it is a result of things encouraged by the meta. A hopefully more coherent explanation is this:

As support, your primary job is to help your team, and this sometimes requires movement away from your lane/between lanes/in other ways that removes you from exp in some way. You don't get exp for kills, and you lose exp when you go to ward/control vision (removing vision from the enemy helps win more than establishing your own if you look at data) and aren't in lane. Laners get lane exp and jg has bonus exp from item and kill exp so in an even game support should be lower in level than their teammates IF their teammates are playing equally as well as them (ie if ADC dies and isn't in lane so they get the same exp as support even though support roams to ward, that is a bad ADC not the support being good and keeping up). Being behind in levels makes your job harder because abilities rank up on level (ie bigger janna shield and more AD on it iirc when you level her shield), and stats do as well (ie mr/armor per level and hp per level make tanky supports able to survive team fights better at higher levels). Being behind on level is adding insult to injury bc not only are you behind on gold (limiting build options) but you are behind on levels which limits raw stats and thus limits play making options. Yes, I CAN still impact and win games when I'm behind on levels. No, it is not as easy to do bc you are significantly weaker. Note that I am referring to the issue of-at level 11 as Amumu I want to take this team fight bc my ult is strong enough it gives my team a big edge, but at level 10 as Amumu the same fight is a bad idea bc I'm much weaker, rather than the issue of- I'm level 11 and my opponent is level 15 so it's a bad fight for me bc I'm weaker. What you mention about impacting the opponent is true, but doesn't change how much my options are limited by my level, and doesn't change the fact that it is a big hit to have the level disadvantage. So my question (and point originally if you didn't get it), is what is your justification for the way leveling impacts supports not being an issue? Bear in mind that because stats and win/loss is highly subjective based on the skill level of the games (ie bronze is diff than gold is diff than plat), so I'm really asking about game theory rather than "I do this which works" (plz include why it works and in theory should work rather than being countered if the opponent plays it better than whomever you made it work against).

Weasel KenseiMar 8, 20163 votes

That guy is just getting a hard on thinking about you all typing these novels to counter their arguments when they just respond with "NO, Im right, YOURE wrong, Im amazing in ways you dont get cause youre LAME!"

Just.... dont argue with someone who has their shirt on backwards then tells you they did it that way on purpose... cause they didnt and its your fault for engaging them any further after they say they did.

T RexHasTinyArmsMar 8, 20162 votes

Lol. But, but.... The internet man. I'm just so bored sometimes sitting between classes and shit. You're right though, I should go make flash cards or play poker or something instead.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 201612 votes

The reason supports are behind in levels is they removed the mastery where supports gained 10/20 exp when behind, it's really hurting us.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20162 votes

It is, I really want it back. I think it would be awesome to add it to the support items but at least bring it back as a mastery.

Sightless66Mar 7, 20162 votes

I don't think it's really hurting supports to lose something they didn't use in the first place. That mastery sucked, and every single high-level build ignored it. If I remember correctly, it was either the second or third least-picked mastery.

I'm totally in favor of supports getting more exp, but the removal of that mastery has nothing to do with any current issues supports are having.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 8, 20161 votes

It's not a bad thing to have anyways since it improved a lot of issues where supports fell behind due to roaming and warding which the only consequence should be is that your adc can die if you choose a wrong time(like bard). Making support mechanics, which should already be done, feel more rewarding to do for everyone who isn't bard.

(Basically it would enforce things like what bard and more skilled supports know to do.)

Would be a great re-addition to the game.

Sightless66Mar 8, 20161 votes

It's not a bad thing to have anyways

Well, there is a downside. It's a noob trab, and that's a pretty bad thing. It was a very, very weak mastery, and it really did suck so much that it wasn't worth taking, and no one at high levels did. That alone isn't necessarily a problem, but putting it into the mastery tree without making that weakness clear creates the illusion that it is as good as other masteries. That's really deceptive towards new or unskilled players. They screw themselves by picking the mastery that is inferior to the other masteries when they had no way of knowing it was that bad. As a general rule, having noob traps like that in your game is something you really want to avoid. That's a big part of why it is gone right now.

Would be a great re-addition to the game.

If it were just put back into the game it would go back to being a 0.5% pickrate mastery like it was before. It sucked then and it would suck now. It wouldn't do anything for the support role because they'll be better off not picking it. Changes would have to be made, and they'd have be significant enough that I'm willing to bet it would be less work designing a new exp-based mastery from the ground up.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 8, 20161 votes

Then they can just add it additionally to the sightstone line, it's not hard to do anyways, especially after they removed how much wards we get QQ

I have been suggesting it as either a mastery or addition to sightstone, re-adding it to sightstone seems safer.

Sightless66Mar 8, 20162 votes

Yeah, I think that would work. I'm still concerned that the mechanic does not have enough power relative to the increase in mechanical clutter. Mechanics with small power and low noticable impact are also not amazing game design, but they don't have to be explicitely avoided. However, I have to admit that realistically that cost is very low, and even if it doesn't solve the problem it would serve as an acceptable stopgap until a stronger solution can be found. Seems good to me.

68092871_DELMar 7, 20167 votes

They should buff supports

ModmarMar 7, 20166 votes

Yes, supports are very behind in this meta.
Most support items are very cheap unless going high damage.
Putting bonus EXP on Bandit would severely break it, since farm/passive top laners like to take it over Dangerous Game. So it would have to only be in effect if you were 2+ levels behind the game average

KoechopheMar 7, 201675 votes

I mean the old exp mastery: "Being near a champion who's ahead of you in levels grants XXX exp per second". That wouldn't break top laners whatsoever.

GrymmstrikeMar 7, 20164 votes

The real reason nobody wants to play support is that it is the least able to carry a match. An amazing support and a below average ADC is completely useless. An amazing ADC and a below average support, while still junk, at least allows the ADC to get kills and not have horrendous KDA and such. Why would you want to waste 20-30 minutes of your time getting a stat-line of say 0/5/1 when with the same exact team but swapping you and the ADC around you might end up going 3/3/0? Both are still horrible lines, but at least you can have more fun getting a couple of kills than just wishing to god that the ADC wasn't a special olympics star failure.

GlockHammerMar 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The real reason nobody wants to play support is that it is the least able to carry a match. An amazing support and a below average ADC is completely useless. An amazing ADC and a below average support, while still junk, at least allows the ADC to get kills and not have horrendous KDA and such. Why would you want to waste 20-30 minutes of your time getting a stat-line of say 0/5/1 when with the same exact team but swapping you and the ADC around you might end up going 3/3/0? Both are still horrible lines, but at least you can have more fun getting a couple of kills than just wishing to god that the ADC wasn't a special olympics star failure.

While I don't 100% agree with all written here I do agree with most of it and it's the reason I moved away from the support role entirely even though it's the role that initially appealed the most to me.

I found that if I had a "lacking" team, and I've had quite my share of them, it borders onto the impossible to win as a support. That part I agree with the most.

As a jungler however, even if your teammates are lacking, if you yourself are amazing and the gap in skill between you and the opposing jungler is large, you can more or less singlehandedly turn the game around by controlling the enemy jungler, controlling vision, securing objectives, snowballing yourself and your lacking laners through superior ganks and pressure, it's simply a far better position to be controlling the game from. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who feels this way or has left the support role for this reason.

WadeWilson1337Mar 7, 20163 votes

I can confirm. I used to main support for the longest time, but after realizing that its the hardest roll to carry with if your team isnt on par, i moved to jungle as it has similar map pressure, although if my team is incompetent i can still carry quite easily.

GlockHammerMar 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I can confirm. I used to main support for the longest time, but after realizing that its the hardest roll to carry with if your team isnt on par, i moved to jungle as it has similar map pressure, although if my team is incompetent i can still carry quite easily.

I wouldn't imply it's easy to carry imcompetent players, especially against considerably better opponents, but it's possible and more so as a jungler than as a support.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20161 votes

Actually, I use to carry all the time as a support main. I reached plat 3 last season as a support main. However, I did this through roaming, deep warding, and taking advantage of my CC/Utility. Now, roaming, and deep warding is punished by extreme taxation to EXP gained making the CC/utility later far weaker. The game, as a support, now feel like a glorified babysitting service because you need that EXP from minions to even be viable later, support mains will tell you "We are not ADC babysitters". Unless you get super fed early game you cannot carry from support lately.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20161 votes

I have a much higher win percentage as support than as any other role by far. We're talking 65% to something like 40%. I disagree that it is harder to carry this season. I feel the opposite in fact. With Banner and ZZ Rot both being buffed this season it's much easier to take the enemies towers while doing other things and just keeping them occupied. Not to mention that it rakes the gold in. I've never walked away as top gold in games as support like I do this season. I walk around making it rain. As for the warding and roaming being a punishment to XP...there are much better MS masteries this season than ever before, actually use them. Also, upgrade your trinket to the blue trinket at lvl 9. You can ward almost halfway across the map. At lvl 9 you should never have to walk further than the other side of the lane to get your ward down. Maybe if you'd stop taking that red trinket so much it would make a difference. After all, with blue trinket as it is, the red trinket is kind of useless. Almost all the wards are visible without it now.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20163 votes

I love that you play mostly Sona. However, it is likely that the wave management game is carrying you and not the support role. Keeping waves pushed and keeping the enemy occupied while your team takes objectives is a great style of play. At lower tiers of play that kind of style can win you game just by getting 3+ kills in lane and snowballing out of control with wave management tied on with Banner you can keep the pressure up. That kind of support play will not carry you higher. Mostly, because you will find too much damage is done to your team before you can build Banner. At high tier Gold3+ it doesn't work as well. I notice you rarely buy a Sightstone and as you climb in ranks as a support main you will find you need it or you and your teammates will get caught too much. It is a rare game I do not win my lane or at least go even this season. I've had games where I have my ADC at 6/0/2 because we dominated the lane so hard but I was unable to contribute in teamfights later because 1 Xerath Q would take out 90% of my health because I was 4 levels lower and 1 item down (2 if don't count SS). i will admit I like AP supports more then tank supports though.

SpoofghoulMar 7, 20163 votes

the other reason being supports more then almost any other lane rely on their team.

You bring utility but not the means to kill opponents and take towers or takedown dragons. you cannot snowball the game as much as the other roles when doing well, unless ofc your allies are doing decent enough themselfes.

You are support and ur adc is a bit of a tard and your toplane is feeding gg ff 20

you are adc and your support is a tard and ur toplane is feeding np lets carry dis shit

any other role except pure tanks can carry without extra conditions if you are a support you need your team to do well too or no amount of supporting will help win the game

Tobias BracknerMar 8, 20163 votes

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty used to being behind on levels as support. While I find levels are a good indicator of power, as a support my utility is so great that having additional levels doesn't really mean too much. Though I will say it would be nice to have some level love.

Pandemic PunchMar 7, 20162 votes

I stopped playing support since the minion changes. The minion changes were a HUGE indirect nerf to traditional supports.

This particularly hurts in lower elo when the adc randomly roams mid while the enemy minion waves are pushing into your turret. You can no longer just kill 2 minions and then leave the wave alone. You have to make a decision as to what is more important... "Should I 'TRY' to help the team fight a useless fight that accomplishes nothing and let the turret fall? or do I make sure the turret is defended and hope the team is smart enough to see it and avoid the random TDM fight?

In this scenario, the adc needs to be the one pushing the wave out while the support is helping the team not the other way around.

StoryDuckMar 7, 20162 votes

This kind of ties into the EXP problem. Minions have more EXP in them now which is why players are hitting higher levels more quickly. However, a support that wants to roam or get wards into the enemy jungle must move away from these precious bits of EXP to do those things. This was the way a good Support carried. Now, if they do not get a kill while roaming or manage to punish the enemy jungler they fall too far behind in levels and become near irrelevant. The only way to keep up is to "ALWAYS" be in lane to get that exp. Nobody wants to spend the entire game in lane (except Susan).

VelasanMar 8, 20162 votes

I can't say I agree. As someone who was supporting all the time (Nami mostly) up until the dynamic que system that's not really the issue.

The issue is that everyone is on what is the "new thing" this month. In other words, what has been buffed to be overly strong. Everyone has been trained to look for it now because Riot isn't just making things viable they are making things absurdly strong from one patch to another.

This in turn is encouraging people to play what they call "carry supports." In other words you pick Annie, Volibear, Lux, or Brand and you hardly build a sight stone and instead just try to kill everyone yourself. Of course, that's not what supporting is actually about, and since you aren't ever required to take the support role anymore no one is learning anything beyond that.

I give a lot of respect to a good support player though. It's tough to carry a team with just your CC and whatever damage you can get out of support items considering your team has to be knowledgeable enough to understand to engage on your hooks/bubbles/stuns.

I've been there during the elo climb and at this point sticking to jungle / mid. At least in jungle where I may not be able to carry as easily sometimes I can choose where to gank and make my presence known vs trying to lock down a slippery enemy adc and hoping my adc knows what to do once they get caught.

PROJECT KatarìnaMar 9, 20162 votes

I have never really fallen behind in exp and supps are suppose to have enough utility to be revelevent even if they are behind but once the nerfed item 2049 from 4 to 3 charges and 3 mins each to 2:30 Ima just say no to that role now like the only reason why I played support at all is when I felt my recent supports iv been getting dont know "how and when" to ward but now its just ridiculous.

RohirrimMar 8, 20161 votes

The same thing happens with ganker junglers...I had games with Elise when i ganked 24/7 but still ended up 2-3 levels behind to their Diana(afk farming 24/7)...

VigilenteMar 8, 20161 votes

Its not the levels, its the fact that they have the least fun job. Setting up kills, warding, just following your marksman?

Teridax68Mar 9, 20161 votes

While I'm not a fan of supports being balanced around gold or level independence, since it just further distances them from truly feeling powerful, perhaps an advantage to the current level discrepancy between supports and other classes is that it could allow them to continue scaling into the late-game without depending too hard on items: while that's currently not the case, what with support stats generally not being all that good, giving supports super-high growth could allow them to have similar levels of base stats compared to other classes at any given point in time, even when factoring in level differences, and could stop them from feeling so helpless. Another advantage, though possibly an issue as well, is that it could open up certain opportunities for supports to go into solo positions and thrive there too, with above-average stat growth compensating for their poor item scaling and/or mostly ally-oriented kits.