It now costs exactly 800 gold to completely shut down an entire class of champions.

Koechophe·Nov 6, 2015·191 votes·10,482 views

New executioner's calling will cost 800 gold, and applies grevious wounds for 3 seconds on every hit. Not the hits below a certain % of health, just every single hit. And the item it upgrades into not only gives APen, it applies the wounds for 5 seconds instead.

So now any time that you want to play a sustain champ (Mundo, Vlad, Warwick, Aattrox, etc) don't, because it costs exactly 800 gold and 1 auto attack to render you almost completely useless. They removed the original executioner's calling because it didn't have enough counterplay for sustain champions. Apparently making it apply on every auto instead of just one's below 40% health gives it enough counterplay to completely destroy sustain tanks.

Ah, well, back to playing ADCS for literally every role.

224 Comments

ProfDrDeathNov 6, 201589 votes

Important note:

Grievous Wounds now only affects SELF-HEALS.

Soraka will never care about it again.

EDIT: Thanks to Krinu: https://twitter.com/ReinaSweet/status/662055048369717248

KougaNov 6, 201520 votes

I must have missed that update, is that the case? If so, then it seems an even more egregious case of targeting a small but specific group of Champions. At least saying "GW is a counter to healing" does include the Sorakas & Sonas of the world, and while I'm not saying I'm in favor of picking on those supports it at least sets the bar more level across the playing field. It would let GW be the response to heal-based comps as well; but if it only applies to self-heals than it really is built only to counter Lifesteal builds (which there is too much of now to ever be a viable response) and to counter self-sustain Champions.

KrinuNov 6, 20159 votes

It's correct.

https://twitter.com/ReinaSweet/status/662055048369717248

Soraka's fine, Sona's fine, Mundo/Vlad/Aastrox/etc. are wrecked.

It Hertz When IPNov 6, 201513 votes

Because what Aatrox really needs is another kick in the balls. /sarcasm

SpoofghoulNov 6, 201525 votes

We should be happy they changed to self healing only, the less grievous wounds the better.

My problem is that

None of these sustain champions can apply grievous wounds effectively themselfes.
There is no way to counter grievous wounds effectively for any of these sustain champions.

Now before anyone goes commenting. Sure Aatrox could use that grievous wounds item himself i guess but its not really effective when diving the backline. And Swain could use morellos but you want to buy roa first for the bigger mana pool. either way your healing would be crippled by half.

Grievous wounds should not last 3/5 seconds but rather 1,5/2 seconds to force focus fire rather than tagging someone every 5 seconds. I think for the easy application of grievous wounds these 2 seconds is already long.

And let us not forget about runaans to completely fuck over healing on multiple members.

And then there is Varus and his grievous poke arrows yea that will be a thing. Only counter to poke his sustain now your poke also counters sustain great just what we needed.

VerxintNov 6, 201510 votes

I saw a suggestion making grevious wounds a stacking mechanic.

So 5 stacks = 50% reduction

Exec Calling would be one stack per auto morellos would stack over time ignite would still be 5 stacks. I might hate ignites design, but it's balanced power wise.

This way killing or zoning the guy trying to apply stacks serves as counterplay. You might have 10 or 20% reduced healing for part of the fight, but not 50% for being hit once

WulfyNov 6, 20151 votes

It only disables like 30% of healing instead of half. So....

runedaraNov 6, 20154 votes

They changed it to 40%

OyddAWqJ5rNov 7, 20152 votes

What this means is that the ADC has to focus the sustain tanks to deny their healing. The 5 second duration thing tho needs to go in that case back down to 3.

KoechopheNov 6, 20157 votes

I wasn't really talking about raka. I'm more concerned with the (already struggling) sustain tanks like mundo, vlad, ww and aatrox.

Z46Nov 6, 20153 votes

Mundo got buffed recently, and Vladimir has never been in a bad spot. He likely never will be, even with Executioner's Calling and Lord Dominik's Regards.

Aatrox isn't doing poorly, either. He's sitting at a comfortable 51% win rate.

Warwick has a 53% win rate in Platinum+, and it used to be a lot worse. (Remember 4.20 Weedwick?) His kit is outdated and unfun to everyone outside of a select few players. He needs an update before people worry about balancing him.

None of your listed champions are "struggling" in the least.

chipi99Nov 6, 20156 votes

Ill have you know 1v5 ing the enemy team and taking out 3 people with lifesteal ww is very fun.

ShyvauniNov 6, 20158 votes

The self heal on her Q still cares about it. Especially as that is what allows her to keep healing allies with her own hp.

flibitydooNov 7, 20152 votes

If you know how to play Raka, it should not be an issue

Just like medics in every other videogame that has ever existed,** the optimal Raka strategy is to never get hit by the enemy**; the only thing that should be dropping your healthbar is your own W.

And this is very much achievable as you should not be in the front line or even the backline, you should be behind your carries forming a backline to your backline so that your enemies must dive through two layers of teammates to reach you. This good positioning will ensure that you never die and in doing so ensure your team never dies either. Soraka's win condition in a teamfight is to stay alive, since so long as she lives, no-one on her team will die.

In my most successful victories with Raka, I've gone through 40 minute games and taken less than 10k damage from the enemy team. If the enemy ADC is hitting you (and therefore applying grevious wounds), you're playing raka wrong. You should never be in range of any enemy. You need only to be in range of your teammates to heal them. Your Q also has a pretty massive range to it, and is guaranteed to hit when the E snare goes off (and even without the E snare, the mosh pit of the frontline in a teamfight rarely moves meaning you will probably hit 2-3 champs and get health).

If the enemy is hitting you, grevious wounds or not, your Q isn't going to save you. there's a lengthy travel time and the healing is usually somewhere between 70-150 hp, which is about half an auto's worth of damage. Soraka is very fragile, so much that if they are hitting you, you're proabably dead. Her Q is not a good defensive/tanking tool, her E is a good self peel tool because of the snare, but relying on her Q to keep you alive through the damage of any enemy champion is not (and never has been) viable.

BergkNov 7, 20153 votes

item 3070 Swain

Subject 5Nov 6, 201521 votes

"We removed that feature on Miss Fortune because it was a hidden OP and was toxic to the games environment."

Soraka "Yeah, Riot wouldn't do something like tha-"

item 3093 "You wot m8?"

KoechopheNov 6, 20153 votes

At least Raka can switch to a non-wounded target and still feel useful, even though she let the adc die because of that one item. People like Vlad and Mundo just die instead.

KrinuNov 6, 20154 votes

It'd be a lot bigger issue if they hadn't changed Grievous Wounds to only affect self-healing. Now, I'm not going to say it isn't completely destroying Vlad, Mundo, Aatrox, and the like... but at least they won't be deleting all the healing supports by adding.

PartholonianNov 7, 20153 votes

In fact, if that applies to ALL GW in S6 and not just EC's GW, then it's an indirect buff to sustain supports; they won't be destroyed by item 3165 summoner 14 either.

KrinuNov 7, 20153 votes

It applies to all Grievous Wounds as far as I can tell.

And actually, supports are seeing some pretty hefty buffs next patch - between the aforementioned GW changes, the mastery that makes sustain supports flat-out more powerful, and the item consolidation of sightstone to give supports more item flexibility, I'm expecting sustain supports to actually show up instead of just the engage/escape supports we see these days.

DengedenNov 6, 201511 votes

I'm repeating myself, as I do, but by the time an ADC will get that item, they're gonna start destroying tanks anyway. (Or do no damage because they went for a utility focused item ... as an ADC).

Let's say you're right and none of the S6 changes are helpful for tanks. Do you really think Riot is just gonna leave sustain champs rot when they have such clear counterplay?

Ah, well, back to playing ADCS for literally every role.

Soo grievous wounds completely negate the need for a frontline? I could elaborate on why that's ridiculous but I hope I don't need to.

MacbethAndCheeseNov 6, 20151 votes

The issue is, playing someone like mundo (someone I play ALOT) top vs anyone who can can afford to spend 800 g on an item will shut me down 100% without any counterplay, with grevious wounds, mundo ult becomes a 20% current health damage for 20% max health heal, which is bad in almost any situation for an ULTIMATE. And theres no down time to the grevious wounds, theres no strategic way to play around it, if I all in with mundo at any point I can count on my ult being useless, wanna poke and ult for sustain? Nvm, ult is useless, it basically becomes a speed boost, at best.. :( Its a huge issue for laning sustain champs :/

DengedenNov 6, 20151 votes

That's another story, ranged AD top laners are counter-matchups for melees. You're gonna have to rely on teamfighting to make up.

If an AD bruiser buys it, it'll be a lot easier for mundo to stay out of AA range. Not to mention that the item isn't very useful outside of denying sustain. It doesn't offer the MS or HP of a phage. Or the pushing power of a tiamat.

MacbethAndCheeseNov 7, 20152 votes

no, your completely right, kill pressure wise, mundo won't be any more vulnerable than he would normally be in most match ups HOWEVER, it also means that mundo has lost ALL kill pressure in lane, without an effective ult, duelling becomes impossible, often you'll win duels at just over 10% life, so that small change could mean a large amount.

My issue isn't with mundo becoming shut down as much as making it impossible to play and outplay, I loved mundo the most when he was off meta, but if with 800 g mundo will never be able to 1v1, just seems unfun from any standpoint (it turns the lane into 24/7 farm fest for EVERY ad matchup).

It just feels as if its like playing zed into a 800 g zhonya. Sure, the zhonya won't be killing you, but that one item has now shut down any meaningful pressure you once had

DengedenNov 7, 20152 votes

Hm, fair point. Only ever being able to use your sustain defensively (if at all) is a bit of a detraction. But I don't think the low combat stats of EC can be ignored entirely either.

Rundus1Nov 6, 20151 votes

Not frontline, sustain tanks. Malph and Rammus and Shyv will all still be fine (shyv might hurt a bit) as will other full tanks who just get uber beefy like Singed (not counting the other items that adcs can use to murder them like the giant slayer thing). Mundo, Vlad, Aatrox, and to a lesser extent Irelia and Galio are the ones taking a hit. For the most part, a heal-tank isn't too cc heavy (aatrox has a knock up and galio is very niche for anti-AP. WW has his ult for an initial edge but will likely be unable to kill most adcs in 1v1s with it as they'll just LS up whilst murdering him. If they have death's dance he's especially screwed. Plus QSS exists. Anyways, while tanks in general have a few helpful things (I'm sure a keystone or two helps them), for the most part the heal tanks are just being put into a much worse spot. For ones like Vlad, this isn't so bad. He's a douche who deserves it. For one's like Mundo who already have issues out-healing the dps of one champ let alone more in a teamfight, this is going to murder him. Take an adc top and just rush an EC before the rest of your build and you win post-6 fights and hurt his sustain constantly whilst shafting him if he tries to cs with anything but cleavers. Aatrox has similar issues. To an extent, even Maokai, Renekton and Yorick will have issues with this. If this mechanic is going to be a thing, it needs to have some counterplay. Maybe make heal tanks able to build an item that partially negates GW (add the effect to SV or warmogs or something and see what happens). Maybe an item should make them take %reduced damage. Idk, but as is they'll never survive. Early game they usually get shafted and mid they do well. Late is good for them as well atm. Add in some EC on the enemy team and their spikes get so much weaker that you might as well play someone with more cc, as you won't bring nearly as much to the table without the HP regen. Maokai is prob fine, and Vlad will live too, but tank aatrox and ww will suffer and Mundo will be miserable. Frontline will still be a thing, but heal tanks will crumble, and Rito will probably let them get pretty bad before they do too many meaningful changes.

DengedenNov 7, 20152 votes

You'd still need damage to back up those grievous wounds. Otherwise, they won't need to heal up, would they? Which is basically our current situation. Two crit items into LW and tanks start to get destroyed.

I can't find myself agreeing with "take an ADC top". We've never seen that happen (to the point where Vayne/Quinn top were S tier).

As of right now, sustain isn't exactly viable either. I almost never see Warmog's used/rushed successfully.

Subject 5Nov 6, 201510 votes

Soraka "What do you mean my Q is used every 4 seconds to heal the 10% of my HP that I used to heal others and myself? I don't even have a Q button!"

KoechopheNov 6, 20151 votes

What does this post have to do with anything?

PikmintsNov 6, 201510 votes

People say Soraka isn't hurt by GW since it only works against self healing, but Soraka's only able to heal allies as long as she has the health to do so from her Q safely. It doesn't hurt her as much as people like Mundo, but it still reduces her effectiveness.

JustMyBassCannonNov 6, 20159 votes

{quoted}

They removed the original executioner's calling because it didn't have enough counterplay for sustain champions.

NO. NO THEY DID NOT.

They removed old ExCa because it was a poor man's Infinity Edge with no competitive value.

LaserDeathBladeNov 6, 20158 votes

You act like its the end of the world, it's only a reduction to healing

Also there's no point looking at a single item, it's too early to determine its interaction with all the other changes incoming.

TransgressorNov 6, 20157 votes

Did you even read his/her post?

OP is looking at a single item, because that's all it takes to render sustain tanks obsolete from the game, what can't you understand? It's too early? No, FUCK no. It is not. Why? Because there are NO other planned changes that we know off so far, and especially NO CHANGES TO SUSTAIN TANKS.

Whether those sustain tanks need reworks/tweaks/nerfs/buffs or not is not the issue. The fact is they'll be legitimately useless from now on. No, not fallen off the meta, just utterly useless.

ShyvauniNov 6, 201514 votes

They are also ignoring every other item added/reworked in order to make thier claim seem valud with no actual proof.

There are items that help some sustain champions so it is still to early to say for certain sustain is dead.

RikariNov 6, 20158 votes

So Rito says GW is toxic and trashes MF for having it,now puts it on an item for every AA? Smart.

Slamurai JackNov 6, 20156 votes

I don't think it will be that bad. GW is only 40% now and the new masteries benefit regen champs immensely. And I would be shocked if Riot didn't add a condition you need to reach for grievous wounds to kick in before the season starts.

KoechopheNov 6, 20154 votes

If they were going to add that, they would've done so already. These patch notes are all but final.

Slamurai JackNov 6, 20158 votes

You do know that the start of season 6 is still 2 months away right?

DropFillNov 6, 20155 votes

So riot took out the GW from my favorite adc.... Because it had no counterplay. Just to add it to all ADC's. Instead of making it a niche of MF and Varus, they made it a common state among all adc's.

KensueNov 6, 20155 votes

[deleted]

Ulquiorra995Nov 6, 20151 votes

It's not like it now builds into an end-game item which in turn makes it infinitely more useful than old version.

Zair UmbrasNov 7, 20152 votes

Infinitely less useful since this new one is 10% less and only affects SELF heals. Soraka, Sona, and Nami all get to rest easy.

Ulquiorra995Nov 7, 20151 votes

And while Soraka, Sona and Nami get to rest easily, all you need is 800 gold to completely invalidate likes of Swain, Aatrox or Mundo if they dare to show up in your game.

Zair UmbrasNov 7, 20152 votes

False. If you get Visage, you increase your healing to 120%, then you reduce it by the 40% and you'll end up at 72%. That's an overall loss of 28% compared to the previous GW which reduced you from 120% to 60%, which is a 40% decrease.

Running the numbers with Mundo, one of the biggest healy based tanks. You get 60% of your health over 12s, which is 5% per sec. With 28% reduction, you're down to 3.6% per sec, a total of 43.2% of your max health. 16.8% difference or 1.4% less each sec. If you have 5k health, that's 70 health a second being denied. 70. SEVENTY. In total, it's 2160, down from the 3k you would've gotten, meaning you're losing out on a total healing of 840 over -12- seconds.

Seriously... Out of 250 per sec, you stop 70 health. You could easily get the 15% from the OTHER LW item or get better ArP from a Cleaver to do 70 DPS while you leave the GW to the Nomicon/Ignite users.

You won't see people saying Ignite complete kills off Swain, Aatrox, or Mundo. >>

RISE Shlack123Nov 6, 20154 votes

They had to do something to bring their Juggernauts back in line. Instead of bringing Darius's heal and Garen's sustain back down to earth, they put a legacy item back in the game.

Suddenly I feel that Barrier will come back into meta instead of Heal, as well.

The FastNov 6, 20155 votes

Grevious Wounds will literally nothing to Garen. Just sayin'.

Zorae42Nov 6, 20155 votes

It hardly affects Garen at all. It takes longer for his regen to kick in than the GW lasts. Until max level of his passive when it takes 4 seconds to kick in, so you'll get 1 second of use out of it

RyzeReworkNov 6, 20154 votes

almost like the old item DERP

LtHoizNov 6, 20153 votes

Because EC was dealing grievous wound any time an AA is done on enemy of any HP? Oh and it deals grievous wound at a heal mitigation of 40% instead of previous 50%

Um if I didnt recall wrong, almost none of the folk did build such "OP" item before

BTW with Yasuo at a cost of 1 ability point and destroy the whole ADC class, wait I mean whole ranged class, we should have ranged class being able to enter melee mode.

The FastNov 6, 20155 votes

Before, executioner's calling didn't build into anything, and was a decent investment, and had a solt efficiency problem, that made you actually have to pay for shutting down this class of champion. Now you can build EC literally any game where someone has an armor item and have it be incredibly slot efficient. There is no longer a self-inflicted penalty for picking it up and harming the affected champions.