I don't think Dr. Mundo needs a "big" rework - My idea

Moody P··10 votes·8,326 views

I really don't. In terms of functionality, I think his "theme" is perfectly fine, but the specifics of his mechanics could stand to change a little, as well as putting some more interesting power allocated onto his W which feels like a shitty filler spell ATM. Obviously, his passive should probably be something completely new, but I have no idea what to replace it with.

I'm more interested in these 2 changes for his R and W. I'll start with the R.

-> Instead of making it a massive heal-over-time, change it into a modest duration where all damage dealt to Mundo heals him instead. A shorter duration but much stronger effect would greatly raise Mundo's decision making beyond pressing R as soon as the fight starts heating up, as well as making him much less snowball-dependent since his healing is now based on his reaction/prediction skills rather than simply having lots of numbers. It also offers clear counterplay of simply not hurling your massive nukes at the Mundo when you suspect he'll pop his ult, but overall helps to solidify his job as a potent anti-mage Juggernaut who can soak up everything your AP throws at him and then hit you back just as hard.

-> Change his W into a temporary active spell instead of a toggle. Now has a moderate cast time that, after finishing, cleanses all CC and debuffs applied to Mundo before the cast completed and causes him to do heavy damage over time in an area around him for a few seconds, as well as gaining movement speed. W is currently a shit spell that doesn't really do much other than BM with the burn damage when you're fed. Now, being a delayed cleanse makes it sort of pseudo-tenacity, like Garen's W but with a more predictive than reactive component. Note that R's movement speed is transferred here, giving him better chasing power independent of his ultimate if he chooses to use his W that way.

I think his Q and E are quite fine the way they are. Mundo should IMO still be a mostly/full-tank build champion.

31 Comments

Agent Corgi2 votes

I like the Idea behind his Ultimate Change. The only question I have behind it is if it applies to All Damage, would that Include damage dealt by Turrets or just damage dealt by champions?

Infernape2 votes

Mundo's VGU would probably more on the scale of Sion over one on the scale of Warwick. Mundo's "mechanics" are nothing more than pure stat checking. I could see every single one of his abilities being changed with Riot keeping some form of healing/sustain.

Oleandervine1 votes

I would agree with this. His kit is completely bland and unintuitive, and depends wholly on whether or not you pressed the proper combination of QWER to stay alive against your opponent. About the only thing I'd see surviving through a VGU would be his Q cleaver, it's the only point of skill expression in his kit.

Moody P1 votes

Sion rework was trash tho

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=upEKnWOg,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-01-03T15:14:31.929+0000)

Sion rework was trash tho

Well his old wonky version isn't any better. I'd rather take the rework over that.

Moody P2 votes

anything is better than old Sion but that doesn't make new one good. replacement VGUs are generally awful

Mundo doesn't really need replaced. Just redefined.

Oleandervine1 votes

Mundo definitely needs to be replaced. There's no redefinition you can do to make his kit functional. All he is is just a ball of stats. There's no skill expression to his kit other than whether or not you hit Q, and then his success is determined by whether or not you have the longevity and the stats to kill someone you're keeping slowed down. The only reason his healing in his R is so oppressively powerful at the moment is because he exists in the state where he's got to have severely overtuned stats to be viable because his kit is antiquated and doesn't have the modern trappings that allow it to have proper skill expression. His kit has got to go, and a simple redefining will not modernize him and make him viable.

Moody P1 votes

you wrote a lot just for me to not read it

everything I've proposed up here solves both his stat checking and low skill issues, maybe you should read the OP before commenting in my thread

Oleandervine1 votes

Your suggestions don't fix Mundo though. He's still going to be heavily reliant on running up to enemies and hoping they die before he does. Giving timers on W or tinkering with how his ult heals him doesn't address his problems - sure, you suggested ways to give him mild skill expression, but you still preserve his limited play style that leaves him susceptible to anything with range who can outrun or snare him, as well as his weird status of building pure tank and having the capability of dealing damage like a juggernaut. His kit doesn't lend itself to being preserved as it is or even modernized, because it simply doesn't have enough going for it that is satisfying, fun to play, or interesting enough to have followers who can devote themselves to gaining skill with him. Your suggestions still have Mundo relying on his raw stats for his success.

Moody P1 votes

He's still going to be heavily reliant on running up to enemies and hoping they die before he does.

that's how immobile melees have to work. Do you think Mundo's going to get a dash or something? He already has a more skill-based approach to actually getting on and sticking than full-melee juggernauts like Garen and Udyr because he has to keep landing cleavers. And unlike Olaf's axes, which I'll admit are far more complicated to juggle than it is to land Mundo's, Mundo's can be body blocked. He also has a better answer to range for the exact same reason and before Urgot and Aatrox I'd say he was easily the juggernaut least affected by the ranged advantage because he can just sit back and farm with cleavers while outscaling most ranged top laners.

I don't think you understand how Mundo works at all beyond the most face value perspective.

weird status of building pure tank and having the capability of dealing damage like a juggernaut.

Mundo's damage comes from being able to survive long enough to apply it. This is not a problem and is much closer to what Juggernauts should actually be, with few exceptions Illaoi Aatrox due to their very burst focused kits and Illaoi's ability to slingshot her HP bar from 20 to 70 if she's played to her best case scenarios.

Bârd1 votes

You have to judge those on a case by case basis.

Old Galio/Aatrox were bad, but had a defined and interesting style. They needed a rework on the level of Akali, but instead got completely relaunched. Even though the new ones are fine, Riot didn't take nearly enough from the old designs.

Old Poppy/Yorick were absolutely terrible designs that had to be kept in the gutter for balance reasons, and they didn't really have a good style, but they at least had an idea in mind when creating their kits. Riot salvaged what they could from those two and rebuilt around their re

Old Sion was pretty much just a hodgepodge of Dota 2 abilities lumped together, and it didn't work in the slightest. They only had two original ideas in the old Sion.

  • The Shield Bomb (it's pretty similar to an ability from Dota, but it's different enough that I'll credit it as original).
  • The E (nothing quite like it exists in Dota. It was an original idea, but most of it wasn't a good idea).

Sion kept his W shield bomb and E's HP stacking. Nothing else was worth porting.

Galio/Aatrox were successes as new champions, but failures at being Galio/Aatrox. Poppy/Yorick were successes at being Poppy/Yorick. I'd say Poppy's rework succeeded, but Yorick is still bad. Sion was a success at salvaging the few decent parts of the old Sion, and he's generally been a good champion.

Moody P1 votes

Sion is a toxic champion who is equally undeserving of viability as his predecessor. 0 interaction tank bully with little counterplay in his laning interactions who then goes on to fail the fundamental goals of being a tank (assuming he's not OP) because he's laughably unreliable and requires ally setup when the point of a tank is to BE the setup.

hey only had two original ideas in the old Sion.

don't know how you left out his ult which was a huge portion of AD Sion's success; getting to late game builds and turning your whole team immortal as long as they're set up to keep you on the enemy. It was a far more interesting playstyle that just wasn't supported well enough in his own kit, than the boring tank we were given in place of him.

Yorick is a failed delivery on the minion man theme and it's been done in the most low-elo punishing away. Unfortunate that Riot also loves to balance for bad players, because it gives them a good excuse to trash him whenever he's halfway decent in Diamond+ games

Poppy feels like a confused tank bruiser; her damage is absolutely absurd for a tank even without buying AD to scale with

Galio is a mess on all ends and I won't understand how you can call him anything but a travesty given how often he's needed to be rebalanced with not a single attempt of "fixing" him actually working. Galio's fantasy says anti-mage, almost all of his spell mechanics say anti-melee, and his numbers now say "AP one-shot machine." Nothing about this champion actually fits together other than that he just has everything. Utterly disgusting how atrociously he was handled.

aatrox is lame

Nhifu1 votes

Why would they even waste time reworking Mundo? I remember I made a massive post a couple days ago about how Riot literally is reworking 1 champion, compared to their 10 skins they are working on.

Juice2 votes

Yeah someone should go and tell their artists who work on skins to go and rework champions instead

What could possibly go wrong?

Moody P1 votes

He's a tier 1 candidate, I can't see why he's not in the pipeline

200220121 votes

Because he has no inherrent problems. He's not unfun to play, play with and play against and has clear strengths and weaknesses. Simplicity doesn't make a champ worthy of a rework alone.

Moody P1 votes

Because he has no inherrent problems.

disagree

200220121 votes

Glad you elaborated, great argument! /s

Ralanr2 votes

Actually his inherent problem is that he doesn’t have much control in how to play.

If the enemy buys GW, he doesn’t have a way to deal with it. If they don’t, then Mundo can go too far out of control.

Older champions that were primary heal focused like Swain, Aatrox, and Warwick got reworks that kept a healing part, but didn’t make them overly rely on it or made them work through certain mechanics to get it.

Now some are very controversial (Aatrox) but some worked for the better (Warwick).

200220121 votes

He's simple, I'd argue that's way better than making a champion like Zoe.

All the reworks you mentioned are still very reliant on healing, just not in a very linear way. While it's true that Mundo could use that treatment, all the champions you've mentioned had bigger problems because of which they were reworked.

Ralanr1 votes

Arguably true, I’ve always felt that Swain was basically the Mundo of mages.

And by no means should Mundo be made into something like Zoe. But that doesn’t mean his kit has issues that hold him back. Having him be too focused on self healing just hurts him. Giving more gameplay to his healing can allow him to have other things.

Sewer Side1 votes

You should make a blog.

Far, far away.

Moody P2 votes

You're aware you can just not click on my threads?

Sewer Side1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=upEKnWOg,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-03T11:30:18.013+0000)

You're aware you can just not click on my threads?

Don’t tell me what to do

Moody P1 votes

Don't tell me what to do

Sewer Side1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=upEKnWOg,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-03T13:19:55.774+0000)

Don't tell me what to do

No u

Galiö1 votes

How dare u try and steal old Galio W mechanic for Mundo R. Although I can see it fitting a bit thematically.

Also I think Mundo should actually have some sort of scaling In his Kit so he isnt rewarded for building nothing but health cause nothing else really does anything for him.

Ralanr1 votes

I actually like the ult change idea. Granted, liking it and it being balanced are two different things.

Outside of executions like Pyke or Urgot, this would mean Mundo for (let’s say 3 seconds) would be impossible to kill. This would be an incredibly powerful tool for 1v1s and dives, and while it is punishing the enemy that dives Mundo without respecting his power, it also allows Mundo to gain a benefit to diving enemies under tower.

While I’m not a fan of that, I am a fan of the overall ability change. And they could actually call it Masochism and rename his E into sadism.

And if you remove the healing of his passive, you should probably put it somewhere on his base kit. As boring as it sounds, letting his E heal him if it kills a Target could work.

Moody P1 votes

making it last like 4-5 seconds instead of current 12 would actually be quite manageable. obviously you can always CC him before he ults since he'd be likely to use it when low as a last resort, as well as simply holding him down during the duration with as little damage as possible so he doesn't heal too much.

was thinking he'd get healing on passive still. idea would be something like doing a set amount of damage to enemies gives Mundo a heal over time, which can stack for as long as Mundo's doing his thing and landing cleavers/not being kited. something like that would let him get a quick boost by hitting a tank with his % damage or managing to stick onto a squishy and bash them with his E's AD steroid and flat damage; rewarding him more for gameplay patterns rather than simply "having" more regen

Bârd1 votes

Being unkillable for 3 seconds isn't a huge deal on a champion like Mundo.

He has decent burst, but mostly deals damage by sitting on you for a long period of time and outlasting you, so he doesn't do a ton in a window of 3 seconds.

Wacky91 votes

Maybe only damage from champions heals Mundo instead?

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