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Why is Irelia allowed to be broken?

Śhunpo··57 votes·17,625 views

Well, for a champion with an overloaded kit containing almost everything you could want in a fighter/skirmisher, being damage reduction, insane mobility, a stun that allows for more mobility, an ult that allows for more mobility; slows and has a form of "CC" that completely invalidates a damage source, and a passive that not only gives attack speed AND AD but also shreds through shields like paper; she sure does lack any form of consistent counterplay.

So, the only counter to Irelia is to CC her....but guess what, she can still channel her W (damage reduction) throughout the entirety of the CC. Oh, and if that wasn't enough she also builds Sterak's, so CC'ing her is pretty much pointless.

Yeah, that -5 movement speed reaaaallly made her impossible to play. She's too weak guys, far too weak. Like, that 5 ms is so meaningful on a champ that already has an abundance of mobility......

With that said I'm going to spitball some ideas to nerf her, some more drastic than others (obviously not to be done all at once):

  • Remove the Q mark from her E

  • Correct E's hitbox (it's really forgiving)

  • Remove the bonus damage Q does to minions and as compensation add 5-10 damage to each rank.

  • Increase the cooldown of her ultimate

  • Make W cancel-able by CC

  • Remove the damage reduction from her W

  • Nerf her passive's bonus attack speed and/or AD

I will say that E's hitbox being corrected is a necessity, because right now it's ridiculous (similar to Lux Q's hitbox).

Anyways, Irelia needs to be nerfed, she's easily THE single most broken champion in the game. Akali, Graves and Jax don't even compare since they only really have 1-2 aspects of their kit that make them broken....Irelia's ENTIRE kit is broken.

tl;dr -5 MS DID NOTHING NERF HER PROPERLY!!!!

130 Comments

Noor Sakata14 votes

To be honest , it's fine to have her W damage reduction Her damage is fine what needs to be fixed is her E hitbox and the Marks should be removed , this mechanic shouldn't exist , even Yasuo doesn't have such a thing

Śhunpo6 votes

I agree with this. If they want to keep her as a tanky-ish bruiser then that's fine, but she shouldn't have access to that part of being a fighter while also being a hypermobile snowball carry....with emphasis on being hypermobile.

Noor Sakata3 votes

{quoted}

I agree with this. If they want to keep her as a tanky-ish bruiser then that's fine, but she shouldn't have access to that part of being a fighter while also being a hypermobile snowball carry....with emphasis on being hypermobile.

Yeah that's exactly what I mean , it's annoying she goes 1v3 or 1v4 and kills 2 or 3 of us then dies , and sometimes she doesn't die , lol , I'd rather dealing with MasterYi if that's the case

Mecha Incognito3 votes

I think the marks are OK, the biggest problem about her is the damage from her Q, it's ridiculous that it procs on hits and has a good total AD ratio, on top of the mobility.

I swear, she'd be so much more enjoyable to play against if they took away the base damage on Q and reduced the ratio by 10%.

Noor Sakata1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chum Your Waters,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2018-10-30T22:20:48.377+0000)

I think the marks are OK, the biggest problem about her is the damage from her Q, it's ridiculous that it procs on hits and has a good total AD ratio, on top of the mobility.

I swear, she'd be so much more enjoyable to play against if they took away the base damage on Q and reduced the ratio by 10%.

That won't solve the issue With marks she can still reach you even if you reach her , by removing her marks , its a damage nerf too , mobility like this shouldn't exist

Mecha Incognito1 votes

I personally disagree, I don't think her being very mobile in all ins would be too overbearing as long as she has to auto attack more often for her damage - because that alone helps slow her down and pushes her damage more towards sustained rather than burst.

The problem she has is that her damage, which is a lot of burst, is directly tied to her mobility.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-29T15:20:10.962+0000)

To be honest , it's fine to have her W damage reduction Her damage is fine what needs to be fixed is her E hitbox and the Marks should be removed , this mechanic shouldn't exist , even Yasuo doesn't have such a thing

agreed in a sense honestly landing a CC ability should be enough reward on its own. And as someone who plays Irelia from time to time and actually enjoys her I can be reasonable (unlike some other Slayer players) and agree that some parts of her can be reasonably overbearing for opponents. If Riot did everything the OP is suggesting Irelia would still be roughly the same to play just take a bit more effort, and she'd still be fun for me (hopefully if they do continue to make reasonable nerfs some toxic mains won't complain) perhaps they should just have landing E reduce the CD of Q. But again CC is still a new reward and i perfer losing AD to AS but i do argue if they remove dmg reduction from W what should it be? A shield? What is W supposed to do w/o dmg reduction

i mean this OP is reasonable they suggest compensation for losing minion bonus dmg, i say go for it.

no ur right Yas breaks every OTHER rule in the game, dont let ANY one fool u just because Irelia rework is newer and has been strong since release DOES NOT mean that "she's easily THE single most broken champion in the game" that is SIMPLY NOT tru. Yes some of her mechanics broken in some ways, and her stats might be a bit over buffed...but that and the list the OP wrote is small change compared to the entire LIST of rules Yas break

dont let Riot distract you Yas has been, IS, and WILL be the most broken champion until they fix him...which may or may not happen and the chances of them fixing Irelia b4 him are MUCH higher and that in it of itself makes Irelia less broken. Nvr forget champs like Yas, Zed, Kai

edit many are saying she wouldn't be the same w/o her marks on E maybe its right...they could reduce the CC duration or dmg of Q or E to compensate

PowerSlave9937 votes

Old Irelia was way more balanced.

FridgeD2 votes

really good joke! better nerf irelia was there for reason. have fun with a triforce user that cuts up your carries while being close to immune to cc

PowerSlave9931 votes

If you haven't played in the past seasons than you wouldn't know for what that joke ''better nerf'' was. Either way, old irelia was 49% winrate champion which was way more balanced than this.

You actually had to learn her. Using Q properly, now Q gives free magic damage if you miss. And more things to learn.

Plus, the only people who were crying for nerf are the ones that meet ''mains'' just like I was.

Séance5 votes

When you are frustrated about how a particular champion works, I suggest you play that champ, it will make you make you much more aware of the champions bad match ups and weaknesses. If you still think the champion is broken after playing 20 games or so, play ranked with it and it should be freelo, but I find most of the time its simply a lack of understanding about the champions counter-play.

3ternalkarma4 votes

[{quoted}](name=little smurf row,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-10-29T21:59:08.526+0000)

When you are frustrated about how a particular champion works, I suggest you play that champ, it will make you make you much more aware of the champions bad match ups and weaknesses. If you still think the champion is broken after playing 20 games or so, play ranked with it and it should be freelo, but I find most of the time its simply a lack of understanding about the champions counter-play.

if you are talking about Irelia the only true counter is bring back Morello or ban her she is way too overtuned and has no real counters

Séance3 votes

If you dodge her E in lane she is completely useless. she has no poke and without landing e also has no all in potential. Therefore her counter is any champion that has a dash that can reactivity dodge E will do decently in lane against her.

Séance2 votes

Just looked into you profile. 1 Irelia game and its a loss. Try taking my advise before lecturing me about her counters.

3ternalkarma1 votes

[{quoted}](name=little smurf row,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=000d00000001,timestamp=2018-10-29T23:35:36.119+0000)

Just looked into you profile. 1 Irelia game and its a loss. Try taking my advise before lecturing me about her counters.

meanwhile you have 3 games on her....? take your own advice first bro

adjoth3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zyra Bót,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=000d000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-29T23:42:15.893+0000)

meanwhile you have 3 games on her....? take your own advice first bro

I played her somewhat often enough to claim I have some understanding of her. She's only strong once she's finished her first item (item 3078 usually). And many champions can outright destroy her in a strict 1v1. If she dodges you hits, and she lands hers, its not because she op, but because she either good, or your bad at trading. She also has a poor early game before her first item... and in that regard she not the only one (Many champions have this affect). Late game is another matter, but I consider it to be unfair to judge a champions balance outside a 1v1. Some champions after all have better team fighting, you can also try and "choose" your opponent to your advantage. That's why a good Irelia would try and seek out your back line, even when behind. Not because she's OP, but because that's where her strengths lie. (PS. Screw English for spelling Lie and lie the same)

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

[{quoted}](name=little smurf row,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-10-29T21:59:08.526+0000)

When you are frustrated about how a particular champion works, I suggest you play that champ, it will make you make you much more aware of the champions bad match ups and weaknesses. If you still think the champion is broken after playing 20 games or so, play ranked with it and it should be freelo, but I find most of the time its simply a lack of understanding about the champions counter-play.

except Yas, cause he break too many rules, i think wat ur saying is very applicable for most any other champ that everyone complains about, (don't think i need to make a list)... I can beat yas, and i kno his bad match ups and weaknesses but that wont stop me from hating the whole essay of rules he breaks ... i still have yet to figure out about Kai's bad match ups and weaknesses

Séance2 votes

I feel the same way about Darius actually, but then it stops being about complaining that the champ is broken and more about being annoyed at the way you have to play around the champ.

Ravenhale4 votes

Bladesurge's Cooldown is refunded if the target was marked or dies to Bladesurge.

Bladesurge's Cooldown is refunded if the target dies to Bladesurge.

Honestly, that was how it used to work, and I often forget it changed.

TheOtherWoman8 votes

I agree she’s a toxic piece of shitt champion, has like 20 dashes like why? She was 1v5ing my team last game broken is all I can say.

Ravenhale15 votes

People that played Irelia prior to the rework were familiar how Bladesurge worked. You knew you had to kill something to get a Q reset. You would prep a caster minion for gap closing or you would watch the minion wave for openings. Considering how basic her kit was, it was one of the few mechanics on Irelia you had to pick up.

Sure, Irelia does take more skill now, but it seems like the Q dashing about takes much less skill.

illegal meme4 votes

because riot masturbate off on their "innovative""rule-breaking" design.

BlueBilberry4 votes

Let's just be honest - the Season 8, "League of Snowball" meta, has created too many of these. If it's not Irelia, then it's Aatrox, or Leblanc, or Talon, or Zoe, ...and the list just goes on. There are just too many champs, like Irelia, who once they snowball, give next to no counterplay. Please Riot just give us a new meta soon. The meta this season has worn out its welcome.

NotAPurpleFrog3 votes

Don't worry they're nerfing her... oh wait it's 5 movement speed [zombie-brand-facepalm]

ZanTwilight3 votes

I'm a high Plat Irelia main, and while I agree that Irelia is quite strong, she's not as busted as the Boards seem to think. I think the biggest thing that the Boards get wrong is Irelia's "mobility" - she's not mobile, she's sticky, i.e. mobile when going towards marked targets. Her only escape is to just walk. That's why the much-memed -5 MS actually matters - it doesn't keep her from getting onto priority targets, but it does make her more vulnerable to ganks and less able to escape fights that go south. There are many, many times where you're staring at a 3 or 4man ult and having to run away because most of the enemy team is 70%+ HP and people on your team have already gotten picked or chunked out. Basically, Irelia is very effective when she gets to full commit and get a ton of resets off of marks, but to do anything she has to go all the way in. She reminds me a bit of Katarina in that regard - as long as you play carefully around her she can't do much, but you're always aware that if you give her a window for even a second she can wipe your team. I'm not opposed to nerfing her, but I think all her problems can be addressed numerically. The kit is strong in that it places a lot of pressure on the enemy team to respect her and deny her the kinds of engages she wants, but that's not unique.

Śhunpo2 votes

Thank you for explaining your stance on Irelia thoroughly. Anyways, I do know that the -5 ms matters, but that does not address the core issues when facing the champion.

Irelia can be mobile (watch any of TF Blade's streams and you'll see that) but I do agree, it's not general mobility, it's conditional.

As for your point stating that she reminds you of Katarina...I agree to some degree, however I'd have to say that Irelia is strictly a better Katarina. Irelia does not have to work around the dagger passive and she can actually use her gapcloser to farm. Furthermore she's an excellent teamfight, great laner and amazing skirmisher, and she's absolutely amazing at splitpushing as well. I should also mention that Irelia is a better Katarina simply due to the fact that she builds tanky, while Katarina has to build almost full glass-cannon. THIS is something that I hope they fix. I want them to incentivise glass-cannon Irelia if players want to make her deal a ridiculous amount of damage, as opposed to just going bruiser Irelia and outperforming every glass-cannon build out there. If they did this I would have less of an issue with Irelia.

Her problems can be addressed numerically however I do feel that some aspects need to be removed, like Q's bonus damage to minions, as she's already overloaded. Additionally I'd also like to see her heal moved over to her marks, where she heals whenever she dashes to a marked enemy as opposed to when she uses her Q (to kill units). Those are two changes I'd like to see to start with, followed by some more work done to passive and her base stats.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

I'm a high Plat Irelia main, and while I agree that Irelia is quite strong, she's not as busted as the Boards seem to think. I think the biggest thing that the Boards get wrong is Irelia's "mobility" - she's not mobile, she's sticky, i.e. mobile when going towards marked targets. Her only escape is to just walk. That's why the much-memed -5 MS actually matters - it doesn't keep her from getting onto priority targets, but it does make her more vulnerable to ganks and less able to escape fights that go south. There are many, many times where you're staring at a 3 or 4man ult and having to run away because most of the enemy team is 70%+ HP and people on your team have already gotten picked or chunked out. Basically, Irelia is very effective when she gets to full commit and get a ton of resets off of marks, but to do anything she has to go all the way in. She reminds me a bit of Katarina in that regard - as long as you play carefully around her she can't do much, but you're always aware that if you give her a window for even a second she can wipe your team. I'm not opposed to nerfing her, but I think all her problems can be addressed numerically. The kit is strong in that it places a lot of pressure on the enemy team to respect her and deny her the kinds of engages she wants, but that's not unique.

need more upvotes for the good insight and reasonable remarks. We need more honorable mains like u who look towards a game everyone can enjoy and not jealous selfish mains who complain when Riot trys to balance broken champions reasonably

ankoanko192 votes

Either her W shouldnt give her any DR and Riot buffs Irelias Q healing or Irelias ult should lose one of its functions. Maybe instead of marking enemies it marks enemy minions.

Irelia isnt so mobile.. Its not like Camille/Jax/Fiora who can dash whenever they fuck they want ( In Jaxs case as long as there is something to click on )

Śhunpo3 votes

I'd say 3 dashes on/vs a single champion is pretty mobile. I say the same thing about rework Katarina, no champ should be that sticky without clear drawbacks.

ankoanko196 votes

{quoted}

I'd say 3 dashes on/vs a single champion is pretty mobile. I say the same thing about rework Katarina, no champ should be that sticky without clear drawbacks.

Thats stickyness then, not mobility. She cant reliably escape a bad situation.

Śhunpo2 votes

Stickiness = mobility, it's just conditional mobility. That's still frustrating to face, for different reasons to say, Leblanc.

nm10102 votes

Idk if they changed this at some point (don’t play league much nowadays, mostly watch), but her e cast time should be equalized. I’ve seen plenty of people cast it on an enemy then at their feet for a faster stun than if you cast it at your feet then on the enemy.

FPSKILLERBOB2 votes

Well, i would agree that her e is too large. But removing the mark from her e would destroy the champion as she is now. And you would have to drastically change W if you removed damage reduction, because thats the main use of W. It's a useless skill without the reduction. Now maybe to you, Irelia being destroyed would be a good thing. But I happen to like her. Mained her even before rework. Her biggest problem is that she's supposed to be a top laner, but she's crap top. Meanwhile she's bullshit op midlane. I want my toplane goddess back.[sg-soraka]

Śhunpo2 votes

I actually quite like Irelia, but I'd rather her not be busted since she's a nightmare to face...like "I want to smash my keyboard through the wall" kind of nightmare to face. But you raise a good point, she's bullshit in mid lane.

In regards to this I do think that this isn't an Irelia only problem, Viktor is now being sent top, same to Cass, same to Talon. Likewise Kleds have been seen going mid and so on. The problem is that Riot has built champions to only be good in one lane, so when they move over to another they don't account for the issues that might occur due to this. Relating this back to Irelia we have a situation where she just bullies almost every single mage due to her durability, mobility and sheer oppressiveness and she just dumpsters assassins for the same reasons. Whereas, if you send her top you can actually fight her to an extent since top lane fighters and tanks are built to crush champions like Irelia.

Catastrophic2 votes

I think her ulti is INSANE, like I honestly think it's one of the best ultis in the entire game. It should honesltly lose either damage, slow or disarm.

notMineskiexo1 votes

Why cant you pick a counter

Śhunpo2 votes

With what?

notMineskiexo2 votes

{quoted}

With what?

Personally i always go Amumu

But Mordekaiser DrMundo and Singed do really well

Olaf could do well but i need to test it more

Śhunpo3 votes

Singed is not a counter, trust me, she just wins in an outright 1v1. Same to Morde. Mundo just insta-loses post 6, same to Olaf.

ModBianca Colt3 votes

Because, by that logic, every champion is balanced. You know, just pick a counter and stop complaining. Don't you see how flawed that is? She's got extensively defined strengths, with little to no weaknesses to offset that kind of design.

This pretty much falls into the same category as "Just CC them".

notMineskiexo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gay Baby Powder,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-10-30T04:28:15.355+0000)

Because, by that logic, every champion is balanced. You know, just pick a counter and stop complaining. Don't you see how flawed that is? She's got extensively defined strengths, with little to no weaknesses to offset that kind of design.

This pretty much falls into the same category as "Just CC them".

If you can’t beat an irel ia then that’s a you problem. With proper wave management and trading you are able to beat Irelia without having to deal with her strenghs.

Hell with testing I’ve done I can easily beat irelia with Veigar

So you can either be me- someone who actively looks for an actual counter trying to make his game a free win

Or you can keep doing what you are doing- wait a month(or more) for riot to make an nerf and come to the boards to complain.

ModBianca Colt3 votes

Whether or not I can beat Irelia in lane has nothing to do with how she acts as a champion in general. Her kit is overloaded and causing problems on multiple fronts.

notMineskiexo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gay Baby Powder,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulpHjZar,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T17:06:09.215+0000)

Whether or not I can beat Irelia in lane has nothing to do with how she acts as a champion in general. Her kit is overloaded and causing problems on multiple fronts.

Her kit wouldn’t be a problem if you destroy her with a counter pick

ModBianca Colt1 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/vfi3QZdmwsiQ0/giphy.gif

IainG101 votes

Because you're later in the Pick Order and used your ban on another Pick/Ban like Aatrox or Urgot.....

notMineskiexo1 votes

{quoted}

Because you're later in the Pick Order and used your ban on another Pick/Ban like Aatrox or Urgot.....

I’m pretty sure you mean early in the pick order because i would always want to be late in the pick order to grab a counter pick

If you use your ban on another champ then you better know how to play the matchup

Irelia Bot1 votes

Can we delete Kat's resets on kills?

She clearly does not need them.

Oh and increase her ult cooldown as it is way to short.

At what point does it become stat check?

Śhunpo1 votes

Sure, delete them at this point since it's basically her secondary identity. I actually hate her current kit since the reset portion of it isn't as impactful. In reality though, it's balanced. She needs to actually kill her target to get resets, which is easily preventable when she has daggers which take almost 2 seconds to land. Irelia on the other hand can reset her Q off of creeps, something that Kat cannot do. Sure, she can reset her Shunpo off of daggers, however that is telegraphed. Irelia loses that when she has access to more than 1 creep.

90 seconds is short for an ultimate that is interrupted by any and all hard CC and is countered by damage reduction and mitigation? That's news to me. I mean, her ult's actually her worst ability so I don't see why you're saying that her ult of all things is broken.

But this post isn't about Kat. Thanks for questioning her though.

At what point does it become stat check? Well, if my understanding of the term "stat. check" is correct....when you can auto someone to death without actually hitting all of your abilities. Irelia can do this, and if you watch Doublelift playing her this is exactly what happens, he just autos them all to death.

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

Sure, delete them at this point since it's basically her secondary identity. I actually hate her current kit since the reset portion of it isn't as impactful. In reality though, it's balanced. She needs to actually kill her target to get resets, which is easily preventable when she has daggers which take almost 2 seconds to land. Irelia on the other hand can reset her Q off of creeps, something that Kat cannot do. Sure, she can reset her Shunpo off of daggers, however that is telegraphed. Irelia loses that when she has access to more than 1 creep.

90 seconds is short for an ultimate that is interrupted by any and all hard CC and is countered by damage reduction and mitigation? That's news to me. I mean, her ult's actually her worst ability so I don't see why you're saying that her ult of all things is broken.

But this post isn't about Kat. Thanks for questioning her though.

At what point does it become stat check? Well, if my understanding of the term "stat. check" is correct....when you can auto someone to death without actually hitting all of your abilities. Irelia can do this, and if you watch Doublelift playing her this is exactly what happens, he just autos them all to death.

Irelia Q resetting of kills has been a thing since Season 1 and was one of the only things Riot made clear they wanted to keep as a focus from her old kit. Not sure why people are suddenly upset about it after the rework.

So You have to play a champ perfectly to get comparable outcomes to garen who is really simplistic? Good to know. I'l make sure to only play really simplistic champs from now on to maximize my effectiveness since the more chance for messing up the more a champ tends to have advantages if played nearly perfectly should not apply.

The E hit box goes far beyond Lux Q and Irelia E. A huge amount of champs have deceptive or hard to read hit boxes.

Irelia is getting nerfed in 9.2 according to Riot and I have no idea what they are nerfing but I get a feeling it is going to make her suck to play.

It isn't like I have suggested several times making the mark resets a 70% cooldown reduction instead of a reset or anything.

Śhunpo1 votes

**"Irelia Q resetting of kills has been a thing since Season 1 and was one of the only things Riot made clear they wanted to keep as a focus from her old kit. Not sure why people are suddenly upset about it after the rework." ** Because of her new passive+her 200 autoattack range. Also because she can already dash 3 times to a single target.

**"So You have to play a champ perfectly to get comparable outcomes to garen who is really simplistic? Good to know. I'l make sure to only play really simplistic champs from now on to maximize my effectiveness since the more chance for messing up the more a champ tends to have advantages if played nearly perfectly should not apply." ** Skill floor and ceiling shouldn't even be a problem here, nor should it be any real argument since at this point skill evens out eventually.

"The E hit box goes far beyond Lux Q and Irelia E. A huge amount of champs have deceptive or hard to read hit boxes."

Yes, and I never said that those hitboxes weren't unfair either. I think a lot of skillshots need work done on them so that they're accurate and easier to read, but it just so happens that Irelia's E and Lux's Q are good examples.

**"Irelia is getting nerfed in 9.2 according to Riot and I have no idea what they are nerfing but I get a feeling it is going to make her suck to play." ** I agree here, Riot is probably going to screw the pooch.

"It isn't like I have suggested several times making the mark resets a 70% cooldown reduction instead of a reset or anything."

Well you didn't suggest it here up until now. I actually quite like that idea, that's a nice work-around.

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