After playing a few games where my friends and I went off-meta (troll) builds I had a realisation that League isn't how it used to be. People no longer play this game for fun, they play it to win and feed their e-ego.
Have we lost sight of what video games should be played for, being the fun aspect? Is gaming literally just "who can win" now?
RiotRiot MapleNectar89 votesI have a sneaking suspicion that if we just turned off our API for like...2 months we'd start to see a lot more creativity and "off meta" decisions being made again. As a competitive sport/game depending on your degree of investment in league, it's only natural that people will attempt to optimize the game as much as possible to give them the best chance to win. That gets made all that much easier when you can go to any 3rd party sight and look at whatever is "the strongest" champ/build order/strat on any given patch. Then throw the LCS into the equation and you not only have numbers to look at, but demonstrations by the best players in the game in how to play the game best.
I was personally finding myself get a bit burnt out in ranked this season, so started focusing more on normals with friends and just tried out champs I haven't played in ages, or took them in weird spots (Brand jungle). Even though I'm sure it's far from optimal, it was actually super fun to just try funky shit again. That was one thing I loved seeing when we first rolled out runes reforged (or the rune builder website). I was seeing so many people going "oh shit! These specific runes on this champ sound so fun I can't wait to try it!". You know, true theorycrafting, something of a lost art over the years. What we were seeing was players reading tooltips and getting excited envisioning moments in game, not looking at and trying to crunch the numbers for what was best. There was excitement, there was creativity, there was fun. Then runes launched and people immediately turned to 3rd party websites to figure out what the optimal pages were, and we saw decision making quickly converge on what the numbers said, not on what sounded fun. Part of it is we don't yet have the system to the point where you have to think hard about what's optimal, and part of it is human nature. Losing feels bad. So you tend to optimize to chase the win, as opposed to take the risk of picking something "troll" and lose a game/waste your time.
This is hardly scratching the surface, but it's something i've been lamenting on weekends, and something I don't have a good answer to.
Huang Shaotian27 votesI think riot needs to actively encourage and support this kind of behavior more. Not just with balance changes but actively trying to foster a different attitude in players.
Every day on the forums I see 2-3 posts talking about how riot should ban people who pick off meta.
Thunderneedle2 votesTell that to my off meta Fizz jungle, who played the entire game without buying a jungle item!
Or my Poppy adc. Something she picked after enemy team lock in draven/lux.........
Offcourse it was in ranked, and their first time on fizz and poppy.....
Edit: And the poppy adc started cull.... and had 26 farm at 15minutes with a ridiculously high amount of deaths.
Huang Shaotian2 votesIf you want to talk about if riot should add something that makes players reach a certain mastery level or something before they can use it in rank to stop people playing champs they have never played before. That's a fair enough conversation and a totally reasonable request.
That's not really anything to do with not picking meta though.
Thunderneedle2 votesJungle items too metaslave. Wow.
The fizz was level 2 still at the 6 minute mark.
Huang Shaotian2 votesIf he was trying to win then you got bad luck he was trying something new. Again if you want to talk about people trying new champions/builds for the first time in ranked games. Different subject. But yes in your one hypothetical scenario that does sound like he was trying to troll you. 99/100 the people asking for bans are because someone picked a non meta champion though. Not for something as blatant as this.
There was a massive 4-5 page thread just the other day about a kat support. She played fine. Had decent stats and helped her team out a lot and yet everyone was calling for her to be banned.
Virtually every second game we lose and I'm playing pantheon/teemo support I get called a troll pick and reported. Despite I made it all the way to diamond playing virtually just those two champions support.
Thunderneedle2 votesThe hypothetical scenario is still 4 matches down in my history.
And the singed got banned by riot
VoraciousX3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VPJupcy1,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-17T06:11:36.869+0000)
I have a sneaking suspicion that if we just turned off our API for like...2 months we'd start to see a lot more creativity and "off meta" decisions being made again. As a competitive sport/game depending on your degree of investment in league, it's only natural that people will attempt to optimize the game as much as possible to give them the best chance to win. That gets made all that much easier when you can go to any 3rd party sight and look at whatever is "the strongest" champ/build order/strat on any given patch. Then throw the LCS into the equation and you not only have numbers to look at, but demonstrations by the best players in the game in how to play the game best.
I was personally finding myself get a bit burnt out in ranked this season, so started focusing more on normals with friends and just tried out champs I haven't played in ages, or took them in weird spots (Brand jungle). Even though I'm sure it's far from optimal, it was actually super fun to just try funky shit again. That was one thing I loved seeing when we first rolled out runes reforged (or the rune builder website). I was seeing so many people going "oh shit! These specific runes on this champ sound so fun I can't wait to try it!". You know, true theorycrafting, something of a lost art over the years. What we were seeing was players reading tooltips and getting excited envisioning moments in game, not looking at and trying to crunch the numbers for what was best. There was excitement, there was creativity, there was fun. Then runes launched and people immediately turned to 3rd party websites to figure out what the optimal pages were, and we saw decision making quickly converge on what the numbers said, not on what sounded fun. Part of it is we don't yet have the system to the point where you have to think hard about what's optimal, and part of it is human nature. Losing feels bad. So you tend to optimize to chase the win, as opposed to take the risk of picking something "troll" and lose a game/waste your time.
This is hardly scratching the surface, but it's something i've been lamenting on weekends, and something I don't have a good answer to.
I honestly wouldn't mind if that happened. I mean, I can still sometimes go off meta and do well(I play normal only though because ranked is so ridiculous), and I think I have a 100% win rate on Dark Harvest Yorick currently(but it's only fun every once in a while), but I miss being able to go off meta without having people ? spam me whenever I die because they know what I'm doing isn't meta and they will look for every opportunity to blame the support AD Ahri for losing the game whether she's doing better than most everyone else or not.
Kai Guy4 votesFrom my Wc3 days, I would suggest looking into overhauling the custom games lobby's , also Team builder was great for of meta and cheese.
For everybody else burnt on WIN WIN WIN AAARRRGGG TILLLLT attitudes. Grab homies, play with friends, or recruit random strangers who just wanna have fun. Custom games may work, better off recruiting folks in advanced.
My friends and I used to really enjoy making 5 v 5 games of all buddys and trying to out troll or out meta break the other side.
Red Wreckage8 votesAnd its you guys who decides which champ is allowed to be strongest for how long. I guess Varus is somewhat in meta right now, and next patch guinsoo is getting nerfed? Klepto+Ezreal has been meta since start of season and boom, no change. trist is meta, have not been touched. Yi became meta with sated devourer, and boom item removed, followed by absolute gutting of Yi. When was janna last meaningfully nerfed? this balance team pushes whatever meta they want to push, and are heavily biased too it seems.
RiotRiot MapleNectar37 votesI'd suggest taking look at ezreal and klepto patch notes since preseason and then tell me again that we didn't touch them. Also did you read 8.5 patch notes... I'm like 99.9% sure we nerfed Trist... Oh nope, 100%.
Segius5 votesSpeaking of klepto rip bank plank 
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
AMYS GRAVE12 votesPatch notes for klepto and ezreal.
Ezreal nerfed 7.24, 7.24b, and 8.2
Klepto added 7.22 - November 8th
Klepto got its meaningful nerf 8.2 - January 24th
So you nerf the champ repeatedly, then it took you three months to realize that the keystone was the thing propping them up that whole time and nerf that too. Not exactly a shining example of the balance team's work.
RiotRiot MapleNectar17 votesThe team that made runes made some behind the scenes changes to klepto on earlier patches, but they were also worried about over reaching on klepto too fast. As a result we had to hit ezreal a few times in the interim before they landed on what they felt was appropriate/correct for the rune. Given where ezreal is now I'd suspect that even if the meaningful klepto nerf came first we would have had to do more direct nerfs to him anyway, he was sitting between 56%-58% at the time, and that was certainly more than just klepto
Regardless, I didn't say it was a shining example, I was calling out that saying we haven't changed him since preseason was just not true.
AMYS GRAVE6 votesThe team that made runes made some behind the scenes changes to klepto on earlier patches,
Did they? I didn't notice anything....
Regardless, I didn't say it was a shining example, I was calling out that saying we haven't changed him since preseason was just not true.
Fair enough.
EDIT: It is also worth noting that the way you buffed and nerfed ezreal and klepto was not adiabatic (the balance of the game can be approximated by a thermodynamic system btw). That is to say that other champions were buffed/nerfed because of the state of the game which included the state of klepto using champions and the nerfed ezreal in that time where you were figuring out that klepto was the problem. Once you figured out that klepto ez situation other champions had been inadvertently tuned to that meta, and when that meta faded other champions had been unnecessarily over/under tuned. Where the thermodynamic analogy breaks down though is in your ability to decrease entropy of the system by reverting changes... If only we could all be so lucky.
Spideraxe2 votesIts very under the hood, according to Gregab, they made so you can only get elixirs post 6 and added some bad luck protection for Klepto. This was on 7.24
Z3Sleeper4 votesYou forgot the part where they buffed Ezreal after the Klepto nerf.
Hibeki2 votesYou gave trist a slight love tap and a buff to couple that. Literally all the changes were workarounds that did literally nothing to curb what was actually wrong with the champion.
You know, the massive attackspeed steroid, resetting jump, massive base damage ult? How none of these things were actually changed?
That wasn't a nerf.
7thHeaven5 votesLCS is league of 10 champ due:
CleverCactus6 votesMy favorite off-meta picks got explicitly changed to not be able to go in those roles anymore. Riot didn't want Kog'Maw mid, Zac top was fun, but his unnecessary rework didn't even consider him as a toplaner. Skarner's and Mordekaiser reworks also came with changes that almost prevented them from going toplane.
Players make champion picks based on Riot's API, but it doesn't help that Riot makes balancing decisions that force champions into certain roles.
rtbf2256182416 votesDisclaimer: This is only my opinion, Internet warriors.
The reason for this is simply...League, by nature and design, simply does not provide a fun enough game for a player to feel as if they can afford the loss as everything inbetween either of the Nexuses exploding is not worth the frustration that stems for losing.
Simply put, League is just not that fun. It's far too punishing to the player as in this game, almost all players know that a SECOND is a LONG time. It can cost a lot to just "have fun" and screw around with your friends, using emotes, allowing animations to finish on emotes. Interacting with taunts. It takes time, time the enemy will make you pay for.
And as soon as the opponent gets ahead, the game will close out fast. And i meant REAL FAST. It can take about 5 to 10 minutes to finish a game after you're getting legitimately stomped on from trying to have fun and not care about winning. The enemies can literally take away all of your attempts at succeeding to have fun, whatever that may be, and disable you from playing the game by killing you through stomping you that you allowed to happen as you were trying to have fun.
It's why games like PUBG or CoD are popular for example. People don't really care for winning as much as they care for playing everything inbetween the end of the game screen.
Kind-of sad, but it puts the competitivness of League in perspective.
GigglesO5 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VPJupcy1,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-17T06:11:36.869+0000)
Part of it is we don't yet have the system to the point where you have to think hard about what's optimal
I think you guys have been removing decision making since season 1. Not all of it has been bad, but just a few examples. Dodge/Sword of the Divine Warmogs giving 1800 hp + FoN Gold gen for all roles. Tank items that were independantly strong enough adc's would sometimes pick them up. Tiamat on ranged champions (hurricane just isn't quite the same) Mana Management (Do I get mana or damage?) Now you just pick up manaflowband. Still not sure why Zephyr was removed. Sunfire cape stacking. Deathfire grasp. You removed 10% cdr on spirit visage to stop adc's and mages from picking it up. Tmail returning %damage which is what IMO made it really good. Rune customization with %crit damage bonus %crit chance mana regen and the works. Spellvamp (which you returned in rune form anyways) Aura items. (Soul Shroud giving aoe cdr, ageis of the legion, starks ferver) Jungle camps that fuck you up if you don't take it in the proper order. Fortify. (May our towers forever not be denied) S1 Mastery tree where you had to decide if you wanted to dump 30 points into a tree, or split them, or even just 21/9 it. Having to stack a blood thirster to get more damage. Flat pen or %pen (because flat pen used to apply first reducing %pen efficiency if both were stacked)
You keep removing choices (almost) every season.
Edit: added a few removed things, I'm sure I missed more. Edit 2: Also not sure how to add this, but you removed the choice between damage/cdr by adding items that gave both. So you don't really even have to choose which you want anymore.
r4ndomkill2 votesi wasn't around for dodge but it just seems like an anti fun mechanic.
GigglesO3 votesWell it was a very interesting mechanic because it was on adc items... so you could actually get 100% dodge with 4 phantom dancers. SotD was made to "ignore dodge" for a number of autos.
It made for some interesting things like Racecar rammus/yi where you would have 100% dodge, and 1 MR item 1 armor item (who needs boots when pd gave 12% always on MS)* not wanting to look at item history did it give more ms than 12% at one point in time, anyone?
It was kinda toxic though... the odd thing was it was an anti-adc mechanic on an adc primarily item.
PB4UAME2 votesPD in beta gave 15% movements speed, but it was nefed to 12 shortly after, or before the beta period ended.
PB4UAME2 votesAlso, you forgot that the armor item was Wriggle's Lantern, and you'd stack the double swords with the 'move-really-fast-boots' and the MR item was usually a sixth item BV/GA.
GigglesO2 votesAlso, you forgot that the armor item was Wriggle's Lantern, and you'd stack the double swords with the 'move-really-fast-boots' and the MR item was usually a sixth item BV/GA.
[sg-miss-fortune]
Yea there was a lot of weird things in the earlier seasons. Like stacking arc-angles+Dcap, Muramana Syndra, 5 warmogs +boots mundo.
S2 meta golem that even adcs sometimes built http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/1458923_700b.jpg
The legendary stack trio of Sot-occult Mejias, and Leviathan that champs like katarina would sometimes purchase.
We had so many options back then. It was fun having choices.
Śhunpo2 votes[sg-miss-fortune]
Yea there was a lot of weird things in the earlier seasons. Like stacking arc-angles+Dcap, Muramana Syndra, 5 warmogs +boots mundo.
S2 meta golem that even adcs sometimes built http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/1458923_700b.jpg
The legendary stack trio of Sot-occult Mejias, and Leviathan that champs like katarina would sometimes purchase.
We had so many options back then. It was fun having choices.
Mmhmm, the fact that so many items have been removed is saddening since that variety allowed players' creativity to flourish.
GigglesO2 voteshonestly this is the most dissatisfied I’ve seen this community. It’s sad too how much diversity was removed to let “casual” players have an easier time playing the game. It takes almost no knowledge or thought to play the game anymore. How do we make strategic decisions when they are all basically the same decisions?
Do I get this damage + cdr item or that one? I sure do miss old league.
TequilaZombie4 votesIf this was Reddit I'd have given you gold.
This is basically how I've been feeling with League for a long time. To use Magic's player categories, it seems like it's focusing a lot of the Spikes and Timmys, but not enough on all the Jhonnys out there.
If I had to blame a single aspect of the game for it, I'd say it's caused by the low variety of items that accomplish the same goal and some stats being rather static. Like how mov speed will always be around 400 with a 5% variation, or how no matter how much Health Regen you buy, it will always be a lackluster stat outside of lane or a Warmog's kicking in (at which point you don't need to invest in other health regen items).
Idk, as someone who likes to theorycraft almost as much as I like to play, sometimes League's options feel quite limited, even if going by "I want to be relevant" as a parameter instead of "I want to win".
Bern2 votesIf this was Reddit I'd have given you gold.
This is basically how I've been feeling with League for a long time. To use Magic's player categories, it seems like it's focusing a lot of the Spikes and Timmys, but not enough on all the Jhonnys out there.
If I had to blame a single aspect of the game for it, I'd say it's caused by the low variety of items that accomplish the same goal and some stats being rather static. Like how mov speed will always be around 400 with a 5% variation, or how no matter how much Health Regen you buy, it will always be a lackluster stat outside of lane or a Warmog's kicking in (at which point you don't need to invest in other health regen items).
Idk, as someone who likes to theorycraft almost as much as I like to play, sometimes League's options feel quite limited, even if going by "I want to be relevant" as a parameter instead of "I want to win".
My post got downvoted to oblivion, but the important part is, I 100% agree with this.
Between the realities of matchmade queues and the amount of people you need to play League, the attitude of ranked, game length, and a bunch of other factors (like the gradual streamlining of the item system that you mention and the removal of weird or niche items like Sword of the Divine), League is just really, really bad for Johnny-type players. It's hard for them to find satisfaction. And the game is being pushed further away from it in the name of removing noobtraps and streamlining the game -- which is an understandable design goal if you assume the entire playerbase is very Spike-y, but it is leaving some older players out to dry.
I'm very Spike-y myself, so I don't mind it as much (and from a balance perspective, Johnny is very demanding) -- but I admit there's still a part of me that enjoyed doing things like playing Triforce Sona ADC in S3 and trying to steamroll the game as fast as possible before I fell off , and that'd still be nice to indulge every once in a while.
Saianna3 votesTbh you guys DO nerf and even kill possible any non-meta builds. You also decrease possible build paths by making 1trick-champions that their whole kit scales with olny 1 stat.
I remember in S0 (before ranked was made) every champion used to have ap decent'ish ratios in their kits. Now? It hardly scales even if you had 1000AP.
Then we have your (as in: Riot HQ) boner for ADC. How can we not use ADCs if they outperform almost everyone else with a huge gap? You guys are enforcing the ADC META just like a pimp protect his..uh... mobile docking stations..
Edit: Players are also ones to blame, cause we all want to win and want to do it most efficiently, but if you'd remove the vast gaps between certain classes [EKHM] ADC and everyone else [EKHM] and maybe buff certain ability ratios on few champs, then we might actually see some reasonably well performing off-meta builds like... AP GP? Or.. AP Jinx? Or.. AP Cait.. Oh wait, her AP build was gutted with her rework.
Liquid Dario2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VPJupcy1,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-17T06:11:36.869+0000)
I have a sneaking suspicion that if we just turned off our API for like...2 months we'd start to see a lot more creativity and "off meta" decisions being made again. As a competitive sport/game depending on your degree of investment in league, it's only natural that people will attempt to optimize the game as much as possible to give them the best chance to win. That gets made all that much easier when you can go to any 3rd party sight and look at whatever is "the strongest" champ/build order/strat on any given patch. Then throw the LCS into the equation and you not only have numbers to look at, but demonstrations by the best players in the game in how to play the game best.
I was personally finding myself get a bit burnt out in ranked this season, so started focusing more on normals with friends and just tried out champs I haven't played in ages, or took them in weird spots (Brand jungle). Even though I'm sure it's far from optimal, it was actually super fun to just try funky shit again. That was one thing I loved seeing when we first rolled out runes reforged (or the rune builder website). I was seeing so many people going "oh shit! These specific runes on this champ sound so fun I can't wait to try it!". You know, true theorycrafting, something of a lost art over the years. What we were seeing was players reading tooltips and getting excited envisioning moments in game, not looking at and trying to crunch the numbers for what was best. There was excitement, there was creativity, there was fun. Then runes launched and people immediately turned to 3rd party websites to figure out what the optimal pages were, and we saw decision making quickly converge on what the numbers said, not on what sounded fun. Part of it is we don't yet have the system to the point where you have to think hard about what's optimal, and part of it is human nature. Losing feels bad. So you tend to optimize to chase the win, as opposed to take the risk of picking something "troll" and lose a game/waste your time.
This is hardly scratching the surface, but it's something i've been lamenting on weekends, and something I don't have a good answer to.
What hes saying is not a lie tho this game isnt open enough every champion is designated to a spot or two max. The game really needs to be opened up. Why cant I play jinx jungle and be just as competitive as lee sin ? this is the kind of restriction I'm talking about.
Very EXTREMELY rarely we will actually see a player do something odd. The last I can remember was a nunu in bot with smite .... and he got BANNED for his actions and had to go through hoops due to the whole situation. His originality literally got him in hot water with riot games.
I really do not wanna be one of them "haters" but there is truth to what I am saying.
You guys really need to make an ACTIVE and quick acting decision regarding this. It is stunting the growth of league as a whole and just makes the game a stale boring game where you simply play against the same 2-3 champs per lane.
OPTIMIZATION should not be according to which champion you play ... that should be up to your individual skill as a player. This comment you made is the fundamental issue with Riots decisions.
If ppl want to use smite top side that shouldn't be a problem it should be balanced around not removed or nerfed into uselessness. Teleport being the only top lane spell to use due to it allowing you to actually impact other lanes is something that needs to be dealt with too.
Teleport needs to be changed into something that should allow top to have a higher impact on the game as a whole instead of having him live on an island for 30 mins into the game.
Rune system is a complete and utter failure. You wanted to promote originality and different styles of play. Instead all you did was replace masters and runes and mashed them together instead. They are the same thing with the same effects for the most part. Which if you failed the first time ... its like you flipped a hourglass upside down and expected a different result. Its the same system so the same failure occours.
Itemization hasnt changed at all. There is barely choice its more like 3 items is core no matter what the scenario then you can deviate VERY minimally between a VERY VERY small pool of items per champion.
Warding being done by everyone - This really made support a useless role IMO. If anything we should be placing warding back on the support and adding it to the jungler. Make him roam and place things on the map instead of just needing to farm every 2 mins and ganking every 30 seconds. Give the jungler a purpose beyond just being a bloodthirsty maniac who has to babysit everyone every 30 seconds of a game.
Give the jungler a reason to actually invade the jungle besides oh im going to gain a ward now. I mean I could keep typing but typically riot never listens or even responds to my posts so I am going to save the rest of my typing because I already know its going to fall on deaf ears.
Improving this game is not hard. its improving riots stubbornness and will to change and adapt that is the issue here.
JustCallMeSPED2 votesHere is the first thought I came to: Make an "Off-Meta" Queue. In the other three SR Normal queues, people EXPECT you to play to win. If there were a queue that was very specifically an "I'm here to goof off and have fun" queue, the expectation of winning or losing goes away. It'd be like the "Memes & Games" of the actual game. You go there to be ridiculous and have a good time, win or lose.
Edit: As another thought, this could be the queue that also lifts one or two limitations other queues have, like allowing multiple people to pick the same champ. People could make their own "All for One" on one side (and potentially lose horribly), but who DOESN'T want to know if an all Jhin team could take out a meta team?
HaIlMonitor7 votesoff-meta (troll) builds
This really depends what you mean. Like Leathality cait or ap yi? One is just terrible, the other is niche.
Orange Caramel2 votesThis really depends what you mean. Like Leathality cait or ap yi? One is just terrible, the other is niche.
What niche does ap yi have?
HaIlMonitor8 votesnone. that would be the Terrible one lol. Leathality cait can work, but not that great.
CheekySquirrels1 votesI want to find a way to make that ap Yi work. I did alright with tank Yi. I did that on a whim when my adc said go tanky during champ select.
Alex h87213 votesLOOOOL i bet people were confused.
UnboundHades3 votesyour playing with mostly silvers and bronze players in normals i wouldnt say that doing off meta shit is the problem rather personal skill to make use of it
Śhunpo23 votesyour playing with mostly silvers and bronze players in normals i wouldnt say that doing off meta shit is the problem rather personal skill to make use of it
"Personal skill", kinda hard when the meta picks are so meta that they invalidate anything off-meta.
ZephyrDrake7 votes"Personal skill", kinda hard when the meta picks are so meta that they invalidate anything off-meta.
Yet non-meta champions still have a decent winrate and are able to beat meta champions quite often. Maybe stop blaming your loses due to the champions and instead look to better yourself at the game instead
VoraciousX7 votesYet non-meta champions still have a decent winrate and are able to beat meta champions quite often. Maybe stop blaming your loses due to the champions and instead look to better yourself at the game instead
He didn't say off meta CHAMPIONS, he said off meta champions/builds. For example, AP Tryndamere. I myself like some attack speed/on-hit TF. I feel like his E steroid is just wasted without actually feeding into it.
ZephyrDrake1 votesHe didn't say off meta CHAMPIONS, he said off meta champions/builds. For example, AP Tryndamere. I myself like some attack speed/on-hit TF. I feel like his E steroid is just wasted without actually feeding into it.
you are right riot should make it so that if you wanted to build nothing but 
on a manaless champion you are still are useful as someone with a proper build. Sorry but there is something known as a limit. Building random things that the champion isn't balanced around and then complaining that someone with an actual proper build is better than you is just makes you look silly. People love complaining about everything I see
VoraciousX2 votesyou are right riot should make it so that if you wanted to build nothing but
You are talking SO FAR extreme that it's ridiculous. It's not even about being "better or the same" as the champion with a standard build. It's about being viable. And usually when you build off meta, you DO go for synergies, just different synergies than when you go meta. For example, AD/On-hit TF. He builds attack speed and either crit+runaan's(Runaan's bolts stack his E faster), or on-hit. This synergizes with his E, which deals quite a bit of damage. AD Ahri, the main synergy with ADC Ahri has is that most ADCs don't have self peel or near as much safety, or CC. Ahri has all of those. It works, but you don't actually have synergy with crit(though most ADCs don't either, they just buy it to make their autos hurt). Meta is the most effective tactic available. It's not always the most interesting or fun, and people actually find OP strats by going off meta. Meta changes because people find something better by experimentation. There just isn't as much of that anymore because there's so much information out there and people wanna bandwagon with what the pros are doing.
That tank assassin meta wasn't made from someone playing the same Akali playstyle every single game.
Śhunpo5 votesYet non-meta champions still have a decent winrate and are able to beat meta champions quite often. Maybe stop blaming your loses due to the champions and instead look to better yourself at the game instead
Ok, let me put it this way. If I play Quinn bot lane into a Tristana I will almost definitely lose because Tristana is just that good. It doesn't matter if she's bronze or challenger, I will lose no matter what because that pick is just broken. Or better example, I pick Riven into Maokai. Even if he's bad I likely cannot kill him, yet he can kill me due to how good his base damages are and how much CC he has. Even if I roam to other lanes I'm still at a disadvantage because he beats me in roams. My skill as a Riven is almost completely negated when someone picks a meta tank top laner.
My skill level can only interact so much with what I pick. I could make pretty much everything work before season 8 (and the preseason), so what's holding me back now?
I've been looking to better myself at this game for 8 years, got d2 at one point too. But like....my skill doesn't matter against picks that are just braindead auto-win. Case and point, Malzahar. Sure, I can buy QSS, but then I get stunned by their support, and then if I manage to get past that I get chain CC'd by their top laner.
Actually, this is less a champion specific problem, this is a general game problem. There's too much (mind my french) bullshit in this game and the game is sooo team focused that my own skill level hardly affects the outcome of the game. But again, that wasn't my main point. My main point was that this game is less about fun and more about winning to most players. That is a glaring flaw to this game since "fun" is what drives players to recruit more players, play more of the game and really cherish their time playing this game. No one cherishes a game where the only purpose of it is to win.
"But people get enjoyment out of winning!" you may cry. That is true, but would you really call that having fun? Is personal satisfaction really the best outcome in gaming? I'd argue that general fun and a sense of belonging in a group/community would bring more enjoyment to people's experiences if they could just get past the whole "I NEED TO WIN THIS" mentality. Sure, winning is an objective, but it should never be the primary focus in video games. Hence why games like Halo Combat Evolved still live on in people's hearts, because it struck the perfect balance between having fun and the intense desire to win.
ZephyrDrake1 votesOk, let me put it this way. If I play Quinn bot lane into a Tristana I will almost definitely lose because Tristana is just that good. It doesn't matter if she's bronze or challenger, I will lose no matter what because that pick is just broken. Or better example, I pick Riven into Maokai. Even if he's bad I likely cannot kill him, yet he can kill me due to how good his base damages are and how much CC he has. Even if I roam to other lanes I'm still at a disadvantage because he beats me in roams. My skill as a Riven is almost completely negated when someone picks a meta tank top laner.
My skill level can only interact so much with what I pick. I could make pretty much everything work before season 8 (and the preseason), so what's holding me back now?
I've been looking to better myself at this game for 8 years, got d2 at one point too. But like....my skill doesn't matter against picks that are just braindead auto-win. Case and point, Malzahar. Sure, I can buy QSS, but then I get stunned by their support, and then if I manage to get past that I get chain CC'd by their top laner.
Actually, this is less a champion specific problem, this is a general game problem. There's too much (mind my french) bullshit in this game and the game is sooo team focused that my own skill level hardly affects the outcome of the game. But again, that wasn't my main point. My main point was that this game is less about fun and more about winning to most players. That is a glaring flaw to this game since "fun" is what drives players to recruit more players, play more of the game and really cherish their time playing this game. No one cherishes a game where the only purpose of it is to win.
"But people get enjoyment out of winning!" you may cry. That is true, but would you really call that having fun? Is personal satisfaction really the best outcome in gaming? I'd argue that general fun and a sense of belonging in a group/community would bring more enjoyment to people's experiences if they could just get past the whole "I NEED TO WIN THIS" mentality. Sure, winning is an objective, but it should never be the primary focus in video games. Hence why games like Halo Combat Evolved still live on in people's hearts, because it struck the perfect balance between having fun and the intense desire to win.
sounds like you suck if you cannot beat a bronze lvl tristana woth a Quinn sorry but all I see here is salt
CheekySquirrels2 votesSounds like you need to go have some fun in unranked or ARAM with that janky shit. Like support magic missle rammus, full-auto banana Soraka, or even Tank teemo. Have a little fun bro :D Be silly.
Max speed Zilian is hilarious too. Everyone on your team is running around at mach 8. Prep that ult,they always run into the turrets.
