There are not enough early item options for Mages vs AD Assasins mid:

metaworldpeace10··1 votes·679 views

The only early item option for mages is item 3191. Seekers is the only defensive option for Mages, but that is indeed the problem. There is only one option. Rushing Seekers pigeonholes mages into the Zhonyas rush, which has more drawbacks than positive effects on the game. The drawbacks include.

  1. lack of mana - rushing item 3191 gives no mana sustain and the ap it gives is not enough to start clearing waves. The Mage is forced to farm under turret until sufficient ap is acquired. The AD Assasin, usually Zed or Yasuocan endlessly push the wave without having to manage a resource , allowing them to freely roam and pressure other lanes, while the poor Mage sits under turret, with no mama and no way to follow the roam or counter by wave clear.

  2. item 3165 is an option, but really risky - morello is an attractive option but you're signing a death sentence to the Zed mid. Morellos offers no defensive stats and the lane becomes a risky duel between a Mage and some of the best duelists in the game. Usually, this matchup ends very badly for the Mage. The AD assassin gets fed and roams to other lanes, usually ending in a snowball mess, sub 25 minute game.

My idea is to add another option to seekers, which allows for mages to have another option to combat that pesky Zed mid.

Add an item option that builds from item 3191 + item 1027 and item 3114 that gives ap, mana, mregen and armor. This type of item would allow for mages to build something that isn't item 3157 allowing for mages to not have to delay their power spike and allow them to be able to fight against Assasins mid._

9 Comments

ValyrianBlade2 votes

A few comments:

I agree with the overall - Most mages and AP champs in general have no good option against a zed or yasuo or even talon. Rush seekers and you can survive but you're useless. Don't rush seekers and you're often dead unless you're considerably better than them.

I like the item idea. Basically, give us an armor item with moderate AP (I'd guess around 60), some mana regen / mana, and some CDR. Sacrifice some of the power in Morello to gain some defense, but not a full out sacrifice.

Now for where I disagree

  1. These being your only options. Catalyst is a great option (in to RoA). Haunting guise can work too. It's why the champions that regularly build these items (e.g. Lissandra or Annie) actually can do pretty well against these guys. Rod of Ages lets you scale hard, while the health and mana let you use abilities in lane while not dying.

  2. Morello being really risky. I don't think you're a sitting duck with Morello. You have damage and can outtrade the AD assassin if he doesn't all in you. For example, my best mid laner is Ahri. I manage okay in the Zed matchup most times (I consider it a skill matchup) and almost always rush Morello. I can outtrade him with my Q while dodging his poke. If he hits 6 and all ins I can land a charm as he lands and that greatly reduces the damage I take while giving me a solid trade. Of course the downside is if he dodges the charm it's a free kill for him, which seems pretty unfair considering that if I hit the charm I don't kill him.

  3. You can always buy an early Cloth armor and sit on it while finishing Morello first item, and finishing Zhonya's as a second or third item. 300g likely won't hurt you too much. Or grab an early ruby crystal that you'll build in to Rylai's or Haunting Guise if you're against Zhonya's (e.g. against a Yasuo you probably don't want Zhonya's because he'll just knock you up and ult you when you come out of stasis).

Prospector Pete1 votes

Seekers should have a shorter version of Zhonya's stasis. Hexdrinker, the AD counterpart to Zhonyas, grants a weaker passive of Maw of Malmortius. Even QSS grants an active before the final item.

Crossette1 votes

Maybe Seeker's should have a Shaco's ult-worth of stasis, so you can dodge spells if you time it well (or in most cases, ward off a Brand ult)

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe Seeker's should have a Shaco's ult-worth of stasis, so you can dodge spells if you time it well (or in most cases, ward off a Brand ult)

The fact that it puts you in stasis longer is actually not always a good thing for the user as it lets enemies gather around you. A shorter stasis might end up being a buff.

Crossette1 votes

Yes, I notice this when people tell me to buy Zhonya's then fuck up everything because they use it every time someone goes near them.

But then of course, you would be giving up the Zhonya's stats for the Seeker's thing. Worth a shot?

Aezanthya1 votes

Seekers should have a anti-physical damage triggering effect or on use effect.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

And there are exactly 0 options for support to help their team against AD.

armor counterpart to item 3105 pls

Doctor Jarvis2 votes

item 3110 exists...but that only helps against ADCs I guess

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uch0l3J8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-01-10T19:35:20.297+0000)

item 3110 exists...but that only helps against ADCs I guess

Only against auto attackers, so if the Zed or Talon is fed, the item has very limited uses. It's also only really good on tank supports... as Janna, Nami, Sona, Soraka etc you don't want to stick close to an AD threat (or any threat) long enough for FH's aura to be truly effective.

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